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Old 11-10-2017, 03:25 PM   #31
mark bonamer
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ok. i'll back out US Torpedo v3 and install v2 and see if that makes a difference.
v2 torp makes no difference at all:i still get the same CTD.
could it be the detonator? i am using the magnetic exploder option on the shot.
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Old 11-10-2017, 04:48 PM   #32
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v2 torp makes no difference at all:i still get the same CTD.
could it be the detonator? i am using the magnetic exploder option on the shot.
detonator doesnt make a difference and neither does the torpedo-mod version. SHcollisions.act does not know how to handle the Mk10 torpedo detonation on a target and abends. i'm stumped.
i am going to try it without a torpedo mod and see what happens.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:33 PM   #33
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Hi mb
Quote:
so new orders bar is included in max optics?
Yes.

I am using Mark 14 torpedoes.
I shot 3 torpedoes at this target without a game problem.
1 dud 2 hits.
Medium Modern Split Freighter 3269T


What is your installation path?
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:55 PM   #34
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Hi mb
Yes.

I am using Mark 14 torpedoes.
I shot 3 torpedoes at this target without a game problem.
1 dud 2 hits.
Medium Modern Split Freighter 3269T


What is your installation path?
Peter
my install path is:
C:\Ubisoft\SH4\Data


i'm shooting Mark 10's. (S-18 model, man)
the problem seems to be 12 Websters Torpedo v2 or v3.
i got three Mk10 hits without any torpedo mod.
here is the mod list that works.
Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\SH4\MODS]

1 Game Fixes Only Mod v1.1
3 Real Environment mod install
4 GFO Patch for Real Env
5 Webster's No Crew Fatigue
6 Bigger Better Protractors
7 Extra Allied naval bases for Stock SH4 + UBM (V3.0)
8 Webster's Upgraded Deck Gun v2
9 Webster's New sonar view for v1.5
10 MaxOptics IV for GFO 1.1
11 Eye Patch for Stock
13 Pacific Sound Mod
14 Stop The Shouting
15 sobers compass mod_version color
16 3000 Yard Bearing Tool (1920x)
17 Magnified Hud Dials for v1.5_Large
18 Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton
19 Remove grain effect

i would have tried for a photo but there were two DD's who were thinking otherwise.

i looked over the torpedo mods and i didn't see anything that was unusual so as usual we are left scratching our heads. thanks for being patient and listening. i am going to press on with this install-mod-list and sink more ships. AMF.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:23 PM   #35
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Default mark 14's loaded on S-18

peter,

how did mark 14's auto-load onto an s-18 while in port? this happened when i docked after my first manila mission in december 1941. i had 4 mk10's left from the patrol and the mk14's auto-loaded.
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:42 PM   #36
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You would definitely have a tough time shooting those... It'd take a LOT of polishing of the tubes to get them to slip through...

Seems to me that changing a torp mod in a career didn't work too well, so you might have to start the career over mark.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:41 AM   #37
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Hi pb
Thanks for the info.
There was no torpedo choice at the beginning for me with my Porpoise only mk14's.
I have never captained a S18 so I was not aware that the same principal applied.

The mod 12 Webster's Improved US Torpedo v3 should not be causing problems, I have used it over the years with GFO without any problems to date as you can see from my picture.
As you are pointing out it would seem to be down to torpedo incompatibility with the S18 boat.
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:50 AM   #38
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The S18 / S42 boats (basically, the same boat) can only take Mark 10 torpedoes. They are a smaller torpedo than the Mark XIV, lengthwise and in diameter. The Mk14 wouldn't even fit on the rails probably, in a Sugar Boat...

The v2 torpedo file only changes the parameters of how big and how strong the damage inflicted by the torpedo is, by a 35% increase. All v3 does is change that to a 50% increase over stock. Neither mod should cause him an issue. Something else in going on, unless... In and of itself, the torpedo mod is not really a big deal, but it is part of the player's boat, and shouldn't be changed while in a career. If he activated the mod ~after~ starting a career, that may have been the issue to begin with. The second situationt that mark bonamer describes (inappropriate torpedo loading) is very similar to what used to happen with v1.3 of the game (or was it v1.2??... ).

So the question to mark bonamer could be: "Did you activate / de-activate the torpedo mods after starting a career, and then continue with the same career?" However, I cannot remember the "root cause" of the old torpedo issues, and didn't SH3 also have that (inappropriate torpedoes loading)??... A mind is a terrible thing to lose. - perhaps mark bonamer should also check the file structure of the mods, and be certain that he has the "Data" folder where it should be for all of the mods he has in the MODS folder.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:13 AM   #39
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Hi pb
It's a well known fact that the first patrol shold be done without making any upgrades or changes to the boat.
This rule of thumb is good for SH3-4-5.
Hopefully Mark will provide more information.
I think I might test out a new career with a S18 boat and see what happens.
On past experiences using these mods I do not think the problem is there but it will be interesting to see.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:16 AM   #40
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I've already tried mine, and no issues. But I did a new career, so later today, I'll do similar and apply the mod after going out, and see what happens.

Edit 1530 hours: I have managed to get myself sunk three times in a row now... I've run up the West coast from Manila and tried to intercept the invasion fleet, and I've struck out all three times... The first try wasn't really close, but I did get to within 2800 yards of the middle of the Troop Transports and shot a four torpedo spead. All missed. Three DD came over to see me, and sank me with their first pass. I mean to tell you, dropped a can not only right above me, but right on me, and 210 foot, below the thermal layer... 2nd time, I was a little further East, and let the DD drive right over the top of me, while I was on silent running and below the thermal. Came up to PD, shot another four torpedo spread with almost a 90 degree AOB, this time from 1200 yards from one Transport, and 800 yards from the 2nd... All missed. "Say whuh?" you say! I know, I know... how?? Picked up their skirts and went beneath them, I guess. But they're Mark 10s... Anyway, just about the time #4 was leaving the tube, we took damage from a DD ramming us, taking the periscopes with him and causing massive quantities of flooding... then the boom boom came, and we never made it out of there in 30 minutes of trying... The third try, I don't really want to talk too much about... ... suffice to say, a night surface attack doesn't work so well in GFO... I'm just going to have to take my time on the approaches. I'll post back when I can actually hit something with a torpedo.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
You would definitely have a tough time shooting those... It'd take a LOT of polishing of the tubes to get them to slip through...

Seems to me that changing a torp mod in a career didn't work too well, so you might have to start the career over mark.
did not change the torpedo mod mid-career. all of the discussion that theberbster and i had on the subject was at the start of a career. currently, SH4 is running in stock mod as far as torpedos are concerned.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER View Post
Hi pb
It's a well known fact that the first patrol shold be done without making any upgrades or changes to the boat.
This rule of thumb is good for SH3-4-5.
Hopefully Mark will provide more information.
I think I might test out a new career with a S18 boat and see what happens.
On past experiences using these mods I do not think the problem is there but it will be interesting to see.
Peter
i looked into all of the UPCUnitsData files and found no reference to Mk14 and S-18.
in the S-18 Submarine folder i checked out the NSS_s18.UPC file and it looks normal.
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 4.WeaponSlot 1]
ID= TorpMountB1
NameDisplayable= Torpedo Tube 1
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes= TorpedoTube
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=BowTorpedoRoom
IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, TorpedoTube21inOldUS, Mk10Torpedo
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalObjectName3D= NSS_S18_Door02_FRU_anim01
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 58
Activeuserplayerunits.UPC looks normal:
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 4.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=TorpedoTube21inOldUS
NameDisplayable=21" Torpedo Tube
WeaponInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
WeaponSlotType=TorpedoTube
AmmoTypesAccepted=Mk10Torpedo
AmmoTypeLoaded=Mk10TorpUS
i noticed in the section above that the Mk10 is defined as an "OLD" US torpedo. in Weapons.UPC, the Mk10 is defined in two weapon types, Weapon 8 (21 inch) and Weapon 11 (OLD). However, the Mk14 is right where it should be with Weapon 8.

so, where else does one look to find the link between a sub and its eligible torpedos?
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:42 AM   #43
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In the Submarine folder, the EQP file, which is text-based, and the SIM file, which gets opened in S3ditor. Look under the "wpn_SubTorpedoSys" nodes. It's basically the tubes on the boat, not the torps themselves. How are you doing your "fresh" installs mark bonamer? It's almost like there's a little something in your installs that shows it's face when you apply a mod. In other words, what's the source of your files, the path to the game, the version of JSGME, etc.?

I probably didn't state it very well, but I was referring to your getting the Mark 14 torps in your S boat possibly being caused by the mod change during the career. If you did empty the Save folder, and started a new career, then I say (again): "I dunno"... Very strange - though years ago, not so strange. There used to be all sorts of weird nigglies in the game. My original disk was almost unplayable from a career perspective, unless of course, you died after a couple-three patrols. Otherwise, something would bomb on you. Ubi kept throwing "updates" at the game, which sometimes broke more than they fixed...

My brain is remembering a post on here (maybe the Ubi forum??) about someone having found an issue with the torps, but I'm thinking it was pre-v1.4 release - and it may have been SH3... then again, I are old, and I've slept quite a bit since 2007, including those afternoon naps on the couch, where I don't even remember having had lunch when I awaken... - maybe some one of the old heads here can remember that far back...
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:37 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
In the Submarine folder, the EQP file, which is text-based, and the SIM file, which gets opened in S3ditor. Look under the "wpn_SubTorpedoSys" nodes. It's basically the tubes on the boat, not the torps themselves. How are you doing your "fresh" installs mark bonamer? It's almost like there's a little something in your installs that shows it's face when you apply a mod. In other words, what's the source of your files, the path to the game, the version of JSGME, etc.?

I probably didn't state it very well, but I was referring to your getting the Mark 14 torps in your S boat possibly being caused by the mod change during the career. If you did empty the Save folder, and started a new career, then I say (again): "I dunno"... Very strange - though years ago, not so strange. There used to be all sorts of weird nigglies in the game. My original disk was almost unplayable from a career perspective, unless of course, you died after a couple-three patrols. Otherwise, something would bomb on you. Ubi kept throwing "updates" at the game, which sometimes broke more than they fixed...

My brain is remembering a post on here (maybe the Ubi forum??) about someone having found an issue with the torps, but I'm thinking it was pre-v1.4 release - and it may have been SH3... then again, I are old, and I've slept quite a bit since 2007, including those afternoon naps on the couch, where I don't even remember having had lunch when I awaken... - maybe some one of the old heads here can remember that far back...
ok...
EQP file has no reference to torpedos or torpedo tubes.
SIM file has no reference to torpedos, only doors animation. I exploded every + symbol and there is no reference to torpedos. if there is supposed to be a reference then that may be a problem.
fresh installs mean: Delete the savefiles from previous play. then de-install SH4, delete leftover SH4 folders, reboot, re-install from CDROM using unique folder on the C-drive and not the Program Folder that is suggested. then i replace JSGME and SHKeymapper into the new SH4 folder. i've learned my lessons.
Version of JSGME is Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 [C:\Ubisoft\SH4\MODS]
i think that covers all of your questions.

i have seen this inappropriate torpedo assignment before but it was later in the war...and i do not remember which mod-group i was playing...and i just went with the flow.

how are new torpedos made available? i've looked in ammunition.upc and the Mk10 and Mk14 have concurrent and overlapping dates so there has to be another connection in a file between the sub and/or the tubes with the actual weapons in order to distinguish available types with the different subs. that is probably the file that is messed up and needs to be corrected.
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Old 11-12-2017, 05:43 PM   #45
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Sorry about that mark bonamer. You said UPC, and for some reason, I did my 1968 Space Cadet imitation and said EQP. The sub's torp loadouts are in the UPC, the Tubes are in the SIM. There is also a Weapons.upc and an Ammunition.upc file down in the UPC folders, and in the Save folder. The torps themselves are in their own Torpedo_US.dat etc. files. I rely heavily on CapnScurvy, s7rikeback and keltos01 for proper linking of the files... my mind goes numb when I try

You'll see lines like this in the UPC file for the Gato:
Line 1326: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1944-04-01, TorpedoTube21inUS, Mk14Torpedo
Line 1326: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1944-04-01, TorpedoTube21inUS, Mk14Torpedo
Line 1327: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault2= 1944-04-02, NULL, TorpedoTube21inUS, Mk18Torpedo
Line 1327: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault2= 1944-04-02, NULL, TorpedoTube21inUS, Mk18Torpedo


The "NULL" designation means either "from the beginning" or "to the end", whatever the game supplies as a date, so the 14s re-load upon re-fit until April 1st, 1944, and then the Mk18s will load until the end of the game.

The S18 & S42 boats at Manila have:
Line 1221: IDLinkBunker=BowTorpedoRoom
Line 1222: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, TorpedoTube21inOldUS, Mk10Torpedo
Line 1222: IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, TorpedoTube21inOldUS, Mk10Torpedo


(I didn't get my "copy" exactly the same, but you'll get the gist). There the Mk10 loads the whole time... If you have Notepad++, do a "Search" on the word "torpedo", and you should find those lines. If they're not very similar... There are quite a few more lines after those that describe the tubes and loadings... In the save folder, the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file might have what's on your boat in that Save Game folder. On my computer it's E:\Users \propbeanie \Documents \GFO \data \cfg \SaveGames \00000001 \UserPlayer... etc. I use MultiSH4, hence the "GFO" instead of "SH4" for the folder.

At the present time, my laptop has decided to once again quit, and I can't get to my GFO, THEBERBSTER Style. So I'm using my Webster's GFO on a different computer. My project for tomorrow will be to blow the laptop away and re-do the whole thing. 'Course, I say that every 3 or 4 days, and then the computer starts working again...
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