Underwater appearance issue (Banding)

Balladeer · 06-19-16, 12:22 AM

Hey folks. I'f memory serves, I've always struggled with this issue across multiple PCs. My underwater view has all kinds of unsightly banding which is bumming me out. Water needs to be one continuous, clear medium. I tried turning of sun rays underwater just to see if it would help and it doesn't. I don't know if its an issue with the game or a setting like gamma or even if certain anti-aliasings might cause it. I don't know but I'm at my ropes end. I'm pretty certain I've watched youtube vids and others appear not to have this issue.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm running SH4 v1.5 with FOTRS. Is it less noticeable in shallow water? I tried downloading the water view distance mod but I'm at my max downloads for today but I'm not sure that will help me. Is there a mod I can use to adjust this? All things considered I can live with it but it would help immersion as its really kind of ugly looking. I've never had issues with my six year old monitor. It runs at 1920X1080 60Hz.

cdrsubron7 · 06-19-16, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balladeer

Hey folks. I'f memory serves, I've always struggled with this issue across multiple PCs. My underwater view has all kinds of unsightly banding which is bumming me out. Water needs to be one continuous, clear medium. I tried turning of sun rays underwater just to see if it would help and it doesn't. I don't know if its an issue with the game or a setting like gamma or even if certain anti-aliasings might cause it. I don't know but I'm at my ropes end. I'm pretty certain I've watched youtube vids and others appear not to have this issue.

Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm running SH4 v1.5 with FOTRS. Is it less noticeable in shallow water? I tried downloading the water view distance mod but I'm at my max downloads for today but I'm not sure that will help me. Is there a mod I can use to adjust this? All things considered I can live with it but it would help immersion as its really kind of ugly looking. I've never had issues with my six year old monitor. It runs at 1920X1080 60Hz.

What graphics setup are you using?

Balladeer · 06-19-16, 07:08 PM

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.

cdrsubron7 · 06-19-16, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balladeer

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.

Are you running any other mods besides FOTRS? Any environmental mods or such?

cdrsubron7 · 06-20-16, 10:09 AM

One other suggestion, Balladeer. I'm using the same graphics card as you and am not having the problems that you are. Try shutting of the Nvidia Inspector off and see if that solves your problem.

Rockin Robbins · 06-20-16, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balladeer

I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it.

It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.

Yes, that is called banding. Usually that will be caused by having Windows set at 256 colors or 13,768 colors instead of the Windows equivalent of millions of colors. If your Windows setting is for not enough colors nothing the game can do will change that.

Check that out first.

Balladeer · 06-20-16, 08:41 PM

How do I know if windows is using 256 or millions of colors? I just re-calibrated my monitor through Windows. When I check my display its set at true 32 bit under the color tab.

I'm using FOTRS, living and breathing ocean and real environment.

limkol · 06-21-16, 01:31 AM

I have the same problem with SH3 and ARMA, so I doubt that it is game related. The banding problem occurs both underwater and in the sky.
Is it monitor related, graphic card or a windows setting problem as Rockin Robins suggests?

Rockin Robbins · 06-21-16, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balladeer

How do I know if windows is using 256 or millions of colors? I just re-calibrated my monitor through Windows. When I check my display its set at true 32 bit under the color tab.

I'm using FOTRS, living and breathing ocean and real environment.

Okay 32-bit color is what we're talking about, but here's your problem, Vern! You are using both Living Breathing Ocean and Real Environment. Those are two graphics mega-mods. That means that both make many, many changes to the game, some of which are mutually exclusive. Both assume you start with a stock game.

Use one or the other, but not both and I'll bet your problem vanishes. You might have to reinstall the game to ensure you start with purely stock settings before applying the mod. I'd just pull the mods out IN LAST IN FIRST OUT ORDER! with JSGME, and then install one of them. Your problem should vanish.

Benzin1973 · 06-21-16, 09:49 AM

Im having the exact same problem.
Tried vanilla, and about 3 diferent enviroment mods (one at a time), and the problem wont go away.
Also tried tweaking with my nvidia settings. No Go.

If anyone finds a solution, i would really like to hear it, this issue is ruining my game.

Balladeer · 06-21-16, 01:15 PM

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I realized already that there were conflicts to be had running two environment mods. However this issue still remains no matter if I run the stock game or modded.(I have always witnessed this issue even before modding the game going back to SH3) Its always there. Nothing I did in adjusting my monitor or nvidia settings altered it in any way either.

Its not so overbearing that I can't live with it. I'm really starting to think its just the way the engine handles lighting in the game. If I hit the down view key(numpad 1)while underwater, eventually I get past all the different subtle "lines". When I hit the deep water, it eventually all becomes one solid, consistent color, a deep, blueish black and there is no banding. So I think it has to do with lighting. This depth and area must be where the game engine's light can no longer travel. Even though its deep, dark water I can still see the difference. I can see that its all one blended color unlike what is found above this layer.

Benzin1973 · 06-21-16, 04:15 PM

Balladeer: Does it also happen with the sky when you look thru the persicope sometimes during night?

For me this is the most annoying. It seems to happen when its night and there is a little fog.

Balladeer · 06-21-16, 04:52 PM

I don't remember off hand but I will check.

On a side note, why does my avatar picture keep changing lol? Have I been promoted?

Balladeer · 06-21-16, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzin1973

Balladeer: Does it also happen with the sky when you look thru the persicope sometimes during night?

For me this is the most annoying. It seems to happen when its night and there is a little fog.

Yep its in the sky too. I just found out on my end something too. I assumed I had an hdmi connection to my monitor because that's how my video card is connected. However I forgot when I got this new computer almost two years ago, I actually didn't have and hdmi to hdmi cord. It was actually a DVI to hdmi. I found an hdmi to hdmi cable and set up my monitor again.(I guess I haven't really been running anything of mine in proper HD? lol oh well.

However this did not change anything either. I could be wrong but I think some of us, including myself might be being a bit over compulsive with this. I still think it should look better but I think its just because its an older game engine. I hope to get a nice gaming monitor someday that will catch up in quality and technology-wise to my gaming. That's not something I always think about but maybe this will change someday if I can get a nice, 4K or otherwise gaming specific monitor.

Benzin1973 · 06-22-16, 06:41 PM

I dont think the culpit is the monitor or the way its connected. My PC is certainly not a "top of the line gaming monster" eiter, But I have about 120 other games ranging from "relics" such as quake & quake 2, to more recent ones like Assassins creed, madmax, etc. And i only have this issue with SH4.

In SH3, with the GWX3 mod, i do get a little banding on the night sky sometimes, but nothing like SH4. SH5 runs fine too (well, as "fine" as sh5 can run! lol).

I think its something in the SH4 engine not "getting along" with nvidia card drivers.
It doesnt make the game unplayable, but its bad enough that i have trouble seeing the target sometimes. When looking thru the periscope, The banding happens not only on the tones of the night sky, but also arround the "lens effect" of the periscope itself.
Ill take a screenshot and post it here.

06-19-16, 12:22 AM	#1
Balladeer Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 42 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Underwater appearance issue (Banding) Hey folks. I'f memory serves, I've always struggled with this issue across multiple PCs. My underwater view has all kinds of unsightly banding which is bumming me out. Water needs to be one continuous, clear medium. I tried turning of sun rays underwater just to see if it would help and it doesn't. I don't know if its an issue with the game or a setting like gamma or even if certain anti-aliasings might cause it. I don't know but I'm at my ropes end. I'm pretty certain I've watched youtube vids and others appear not to have this issue. Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? I'm running SH4 v1.5 with FOTRS. Is it less noticeable in shallow water? I tried downloading the water view distance mod but I'm at my max downloads for today but I'm not sure that will help me. Is there a mod I can use to adjust this? All things considered I can live with it but it would help immersion as its really kind of ugly looking. I've never had issues with my six year old monitor. It runs at 1920X1080 60Hz.

06-20-16, 10:09 AM	#5
cdrsubron7 Sink'em All Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,150 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 1	One other suggestion, Balladeer. I'm using the same graphics card as you and am not having the problems that you are. Try shutting of the Nvidia Inspector off and see if that solves your problem. __________________ Head Deep and Keep'em Astern" - LtCDR Samuel D Dealy SHIV Guide \| Imperial Japanese Navy \| US Submarines

06-19-16, 07:08 PM	#3
Balladeer Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 42 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	I run an EVGA GTX 970 4GB. I've set all game settings to max. I'm also using the suggested Nvidia Inspector settings listed here at this site. Basically 4X Multisampling with 8X Supersampling and FXAA on. Adjusting these don't seem to affect it. It gets to where the water looks like a gradient scale with visible lines between various similar colors. It almost seems as though it has to do with lighting. Vanilla looks the same underwater as does with FOTRS and living breathing seas activated. I'd post a picture but I don't have a site I can upload it to.

06-20-16, 08:41 PM	#7
Balladeer Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 42 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	How do I know if windows is using 256 or millions of colors? I just re-calibrated my monitor through Windows. When I check my display its set at true 32 bit under the color tab. I'm using FOTRS, living and breathing ocean and real environment.

06-21-16, 01:31 AM	#8
limkol XO Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: looking in the bilge for a bottle opener Posts: 416 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I have the same problem with SH3 and ARMA, so I doubt that it is game related. The banding problem occurs both underwater and in the sky. Is it monitor related, graphic card or a windows setting problem as Rockin Robins suggests?

06-21-16, 09:49 AM	#10
Benzin1973 Engineer Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 217 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Im having the exact same problem. Tried vanilla, and about 3 diferent enviroment mods (one at a time), and the problem wont go away. Also tried tweaking with my nvidia settings. No Go. If anyone finds a solution, i would really like to hear it, this issue is ruining my game.

06-21-16, 01:15 PM	#11
Balladeer Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 42 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the tips everyone. I realized already that there were conflicts to be had running two environment mods. However this issue still remains no matter if I run the stock game or modded.(I have always witnessed this issue even before modding the game going back to SH3) Its always there. Nothing I did in adjusting my monitor or nvidia settings altered it in any way either. Its not so overbearing that I can't live with it. I'm really starting to think its just the way the engine handles lighting in the game. If I hit the down view key(numpad 1)while underwater, eventually I get past all the different subtle "lines". When I hit the deep water, it eventually all becomes one solid, consistent color, a deep, blueish black and there is no banding. So I think it has to do with lighting. This depth and area must be where the game engine's light can no longer travel. Even though its deep, dark water I can still see the difference. I can see that its all one blended color unlike what is found above this layer.

06-21-16, 04:15 PM	#12
Benzin1973 Engineer Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 217 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	Balladeer: Does it also happen with the sky when you look thru the persicope sometimes during night? For me this is the most annoying. It seems to happen when its night and there is a little fog.

06-21-16, 04:52 PM	#13
Balladeer Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 42 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	I don't remember off hand but I will check. On a side note, why does my avatar picture keep changing lol? Have I been promoted?

06-22-16, 06:41 PM	#15
Benzin1973 Engineer Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 217 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	I dont think the culpit is the monitor or the way its connected. My PC is certainly not a "top of the line gaming monster" eiter, But I have about 120 other games ranging from "relics" such as quake & quake 2, to more recent ones like Assassins creed, madmax, etc. And i only have this issue with SH4. In SH3, with the GWX3 mod, i do get a little banding on the night sky sometimes, but nothing like SH4. SH5 runs fine too (well, as "fine" as sh5 can run! lol). I think its something in the SH4 engine not "getting along" with nvidia card drivers. It doesnt make the game unplayable, but its bad enough that i have trouble seeing the target sometimes. When looking thru the periscope, The banding happens not only on the tones of the night sky, but also arround the "lens effect" of the periscope itself. Ill take a screenshot and post it here.