SH5 is still collecting dust, questions...

[GoldenRivet]

1. Has any mod made the campaign more "dynamic" a la SH3?

2. Has any mod made the crew more believable? ie no mix matched uniforms, no eye patch, no navigators well into their 60s etc (no offense to the more seasoned members of the forum intended)

3. has any mod made the AI more realistic?

4. has any mod gotten rid of the junk story line?

5. has any mod gotten rid of the crew meal points, special ability boosts, magic powers etc etc.?

[Fifi]

Yes, really plenty great mods out there now

So many fixes, it can't be said in one post!
Just try Sober's list or even mine here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...20&postcount=1

Try it and report back!...I'm sure you will enjoy the changes

[GoldenRivet]

as my seven year old soon to be step daughter would say

"holy gawlka-moly"

[Sailor Steve]

Yep, those mods have been around for quite awhile now.

But...

You're son is marring a seven-year-old?

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yep, those mods have been around for quite awhile now.

But...

You're son is marring a seven-year-old?

fixed... simultaneous verbal conversation and typed thread reply sort of mated together in my head.

thats what i geat for tultimasking

[Sailor Steve]

I think it's an awesome asset, but it won't get my full attention until I can drive through the Kiel locks and gates in my Type II. But I'm still hopeful.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

fixed... simultaneous verbal conversation and typed thread reply sort of mated together in my head.

thats what i geat for tultimasking

A friend of mine once asked "I don't multitask. Why should I expect my computer to?"

[finchOU]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

1. Has any mod made the campaign more "dynamic" a la SH3?

2. Has any mod made the crew more believable? ie no mix matched uniforms, no eye patch, no navigators well into their 60s etc (no offense to the more seasoned members of the forum intended)

3. has any mod made the AI more realistic?

4. has any mod gotten rid of the junk story line?

5. has any mod gotten rid of the crew meal points, special ability boosts, magic powers etc etc.?

When did you shelf it?? I started up last Summer and played stock just for an apprieation for how bad it was. It's completely different now. MODs have made it Playable and more immersive ...but still is missing some things I can't ignore or are done poorly....but thats just me.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by finchOU

When did you shelf it?? I started up last Summer and played stock just for an apprieation for how bad it was. It's completely different now. MODs have made it Playable and more immersive ...but still is missing some things I can't ignore or are done poorly....but thats just me.

weeks after release date.

Its been installed and reinstalled a few times since then, but it never draws me in the way SH3 does, and inevitably it is shelved once more.

[GoldenRivet]

I downloaded a majority of the mods listed above, many of them are interface and graphic improvements and are wonderful mods. I have to give the modders credit, they are doing their best to turn a Ford Pinto into a world class super car - they have little to work with.

After playing through a couple of patrols into the night and early this morning I'm afraid Silent Hunter 5 is just too far gone a lame horse to continue to be dealt with as far as i am concerned.

I have tried time and time again to give this game a fair shake but the interface, even when modded is clunky and awkward - mostly due to the key commands and the lack of a dial type system that silent hunter players have been accustomed to for decades.

the voice acting is an atrocity... somewhere in the series with silent hunter 4 this started to become an issue, and im not sure why but SH3 doesnt have this problem - but SH4 and SH5 have the issue which is still ongoing where the crew takes 3 - 4 second pauses between words... I cant explain it "Escort sighted!!........... bearing......... three....... one........ zero"

atop of that the crew AI seems highly excitable at times that it would seem inappropriate to be shouting

the "story" feels very poorly conceived, unbelievable and lacking in historical accuracy and needs to be completely modded out of the game entirely.

Where they thought it might be a good idea to talk to the watch officer about his goofy children is beyond me, it adds nothing to the experience. This was not something that was missing from previous versions of the series and it is a completely unnecessary feature.

this interpersonal interaction nonsense could have been much more credible if it were handled like the interactions with characters like in half life two... go up, click on them and they will say something mostly inconsequential "Morning sir" "afternoon captain" or any number of non-essential salutations and phrases that didnt require a deep story line which would impede re playability.

additionally, i find moving around the sub to be an awkward experience as well. while neat, and a great feature, i think it would have been improved to have a small layout of the boat on the bottom of the screen (similar to the damage control screen in SH3) by single clicking on a compartment, your captain would automatically walk there without any other input from you. double click and he runs there. - but you still have the option to move there yourself if you want... i think this would have made moving around the sub much easier.

i think i am going to hang it up again at least untill the story line can be erased and the key commands can mirror SH3 or be similar to SH3.

the modders within the community have taken an atrocious horrible game and made it playable. my hat is off to them.

but i think they could have done more if the game was good to start with

[Dogfish40]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I downloaded a majority of the mods listed above, many of them are interface and graphic improvements and are wonderful mods. I have to give the modders credit, they are doing their best to turn a Ford Pinto into a world class super car - they have little to work with...



...the modders within the community have taken an atrocious horrible game and made it playable. my hat is off to them.

but i think they could have done more if the game was good to start with

I too, was horrified when I played the tutorial mission (no Mods). However, I must say that, compared to other simulations, this one is one of the best after mods. For one, it isn't a game, so the storyline is not really that much of a bother. It can be written out I suppose, but that leaves a lot of time to do nothing at all. I play the game very slowly, I use TC sparingly so immersion is important. This Simulation has a huge map, virtual freedom. No script; where you have to follow a certain path, do a certain thing to make the next act play out. It's not a game like that. Sure there are things missing, half the control room crew on fast dives are not even there (though the sounds are thanks to DBSM), however, show me a game that gives this much detail (getting better all the time) with virtually free missions. I can't compare this to SH4 or 3. The Voice acting on both of those was (to me) just as quirky.
Still, the improvments are incredible, and when I'm on the bridge, it looks as close as it can be to the Atlantic. At least I can't think of another to compare it to.
I'll be playing this one for some time.

[GoldenRivet]

please do not take the following as an attack against SH5 or its players... this is simply a discussion relating to what *I* feel sh5 is or is not missing.

thanks

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

For one, it isn't a game, so the storyline is not really that much of a bother. It can be written out I suppose, but that leaves a lot of time to do nothing at all. I'll be playing this one for some time.

I played an entire 1x time compression patrol in Silent Hunter III and never had a problem with not being able to ask my XO about his sick wife... just saying, one thing that was great about prior installments in the series is that you could make up your own story line, come to subsim forums, write stories about your experiences and go as deep or as shallow with it as you wanted. With SH5 everyone has the same characters, the same back story, the same crew etc. There is no individuality to it. instead of being commanders at sea with our own persona, we are all basically playing the same role, playing the same character, having the same experience with SH5.

with prior installations we were all individuals at sea, each forum member had his own boat and crew and had his own unique experiences at sea... in Silent Hunter's current state... a large chunk of that element feels absent

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

I play the game very slowly, I use TC sparingly so immersion is important. This Simulation has a huge map, virtual freedom.

As is the case with SHIII and IV

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

No script; where you have to follow a certain path, do a certain thing to make the next act play out. It's not a game like that.

actually, it is a game like that. Ubi said so... There is a specific progress that you have to take through the game, specific ships that the game wants you to encounter and sink, specific conditions that must be met that do affect the next battery of missions.

Ubisoft made the campaign this way... it is semi-dynamic... meaing you can go out and explore the seven seas as you wish, however, the game wants you to encounter and sink a carrier, or encounter and sink specific troop ships - otherwise there will be a specific set of consequences later in the campaign.

prior versions of silent hunter were fully dynamic - go anywhere, sink anything, do as you wish and it is non scripted. comparatively SH5 is considerably more heavily scripted than SH 3 and 4. (perhaps the worst offender in scripting was SH2?)

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

Sure there are things missing, half the control room crew on fast dives are not even there (though the sounds are thanks to DBSM),

This is the very first thing that pissed me off about SH5... the first thing i did in the campaign was head for deep water and crash dive... In ubisofts trailer we see men running to their stations, all heading forward lots of activity and shouting and oh my lord the poo is hitting the fan lets get this boat under now! sort of feeling... but what we got in the release version was pretty much the exact opposite.

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

however, show me a game that gives this much detail (getting better all the time) with virtually free missions. I can't compare this to SH4 or 3.

Microsoft flight simulator X

again, i think submarine simulations could take a lot from flight sims.

i have recently downloaded a B-17 and a P-51 mustang from the wings of power series, and unless you run a check list and read the manual and actually learn what each one of a dozen switches do, why they do what they do and how... you arent getting that plane off the virtual ground

in that sense silent hunter 5 is a game... it is not an accurate simulation.

non of the silent hunter versions have been simulations. perhaps they were simulations on some level, but i would hesitate to call silent hunter 3,4 or 5 a true "simulation"

perhaps these subsims are more accurately called "emulations" in that they attempt to replicate or imitate a real life experience at a lower level of detail than a simulation would.

theoretically a true simulation would potentially involve the player's interaction with almost every switch, lever, dial, gauge, button, valve and knob aboard the u-boat, and the functions of those items would all be accurately modeled and have realistic effects on game play.

i for one do not desire or expect that much depth of simulation from my subsims as you are playing the commander - and as such you are the decision maker, the brain... not the actual button masher, not the actual person who would interface with these controls.

i think for most players of the silent hunter series who have been fans since the mid 1990s... and subsimmers who have played sub sims since the 1980s or earlier... silent hunter 5 is just too radical a departure from what we have spent decades mastering.

then again, i am one man and this is the opinion of one person... im sure there are those who agree completely just as well as there are those who think i am crazy.

[Kelly621]

GoldenRivet makes some good points. I had the same feelings he did about the interface and crew interaction etc. The mods fixed most of my complaints, it was a matter of getting use to the new interfaces and other mods. I do find that I still find something lacking just as GoldenRivet does. For me it is the campaign. As GoldenRivet points out:

actually, it is a game like that. Ubi said so... There is a specific progress that you have to take through the game, specific ships that the game wants you to encounter and sink, specific conditions that must be met that do affect the next battery of missions.

Ubisoft made the campaign this way... it is semi-dynamic... meaing you can go out and explore the seven seas as you wish, however, the game wants you to encounter and sink a carrier, or encounter and sink specific troop ships - otherwise there will be a specific set of consequences later in the campaign.

prior versions of silent hunter were fully dynamic - go anywhere, sink anything, do as you wish and it is non scripted. comparatively SH5 is considerably more heavily scripted than SH 3 and 4

Trevally and company did a great job improving the scripted campaign considering what Ubisoft handed us. Even with the improvements I personally just can't warm up to a scripted campaign....guess I am a die hard dynamic campaign lover. Will I continue to play SH5...sure, will I enjoy it?.....most of the time ....yes. I know Trevally is not finished with improving Open Horizons.....He may change my mind down the road

RustySubnarine made the following comment:

I have all versions of Silent Hunter and play SH3 more than SH5, because of the brilliant super mod GWX Gold, which really makes it as good as it can get. I would like to see one big supermod for SH5 come to fruition because although there are now lots of mods for SH5, some of them are difficult to get to work for people who are not so computer literate, because a lot of the mods need certain files altered to get them to work...

One complete GWX sort of mod that can be installed as an exe would be much better for everyone. Whether this will eventually happen, I don't know, but it would make things more straight forward to install and would probably make SH5 as enjoyable as SH3, maybe that much better because of the improved graphics of SH5.

I think you read my mind I was just talking to GT 182 a week or so ago about how great it would be to see a team of mod builders get together and produce a GWX style mod for SH5 for some of the same reason you mentioned above.....I hope it will happen.

Kelly621

[GoldenRivet]

with all of that said... it will be interesting to see where SH5 will be in another 3 years.

i would have to say that Silent Hunter 5 is an enjoyable experience for gamers depending on what experience they are looking for.

Unfortunately, it just is not what i am looking for - not entirely.

i enjoy the environment and the look of SH5, i enjoy the fact that you can first person the entire sub.

i simply dont like how the storyline and characters are so unbelievable.

[Schütze]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

with all of that said... it will be interesting to see where SH5 will be in another 3 years.

i would have to say that Silent Hunter 5 is an enjoyable experience for gamers depending on what experience they are looking for.

Unfortunately, it just is not what i am looking for - not entirely.

i enjoy the environment and the look of SH5, i enjoy the fact that you can first person the entire sub.

i simply dont like how the storyline and characters are so unbelievable.

Agree with this. I have played SH5 a fair share (even heavily modded) and even though i enjoy the graphics thanks to the excellent modding commuity i find myself thinking a bit too much that i should like this. Not that i necessary do it.

I, as well as many of you, agree with that most of the problem is in the story line. Waking up as an 1WO and then at port being promoted on the dock as well as getting your own Typ VII-submarine on the foot is just as immersion killing as anything can get. Well known of the history of german submarine-commanders. The knowledge that you have to stick with Typ VII-subs is of course there and does not serve the sense of realism any favours either.

And then we have the scripted plot about sinking this and that many tonnage and do this and that because otherwise Ubisoft will punish you. And that is what i realised when standing at the conning tower and looking at the horizon. Ubisoft threw every historical accuracy, or sense of that, out of the window just because they can. It is impossible for me to get any WWII-feeling because of this.

[RustySubmarine]

Originally Posted by Kelly621

I think you read my mind I was just talking to GT 182 a week or so ago about how great it would be to see a team of mod builders get together and produce a GWX style mod for SH5 for some of the same reason you mentioned above.....I hope it will happen.

Kelly621

What happened to the guys who gave us GWX are they still active on these forums? I knew they were not going to do the same for SH4 and thought that they would have had a go at doing something for SH5. I suppose with all the complaints about DRM which was not what we were all expecting put most of the modders off doing anything with it, to the same level as they did with SH3.
I really like SH5 because the graphics are brilliant compared to the other SH sims, but trying to get it modded with what is available, makes it quite difficult for me personally, because I just can't get the hang of altering some of the files to get them right to install using JSGME. A lot of the mods are JSGME ready and I have no problem with those, but The DarK Wraith UI mod which I would like installed, prevents me from doing so because I just can't fathom out how to get it JSGME ready, cos I don't know enough about altering files etc.
I know why The Dark Wraith has uploaded them this way, so that one can choose what style of interface they want (SH3, SH4 SH5Enhanced etc) but for newbies and the likes of people like me, it would be better if these were made JSGME ready.