Something Steam user should be aware of.

Bothersome · 04-06-10, 01:09 PM

I come with a report for Silent Hunter users that may think Silent Hunter is buggy or won't run under windows whatever.

Here's the story... I've been talking with my Step-Dad (he's like 80) about WW2 subs and this game SH4 for a few months. Well, he and I can go on for hours talking about such things. He is a retired Chief of the Boat from a modern missile boat. So he's into this stuff.

Well a couple of days ago he decided he'd like to get this game and play it himself. I said, well, I get get you the game tonight, and so we went off to Steam to get it downloading. Well his connection was going to take another 4 hours or so to fetch it, so I came back over the next day and to install the TMO 1.9 to get him all fixed up.

First mistake I made was not actually trying to run the game as installed by Steam the first time. I put TMO on before even trying to run it for first time. Figured it wouldn't matter. By the way, I knew to turn off the updates for SH4 and for U-boats addon before attempting to put on TMO. All was fine, or so it should have been.

Anyway, SH4 wouldn't even act like it's starting up. No opening video or anything. Hmmm.

Well I figured I'd remove the TMO addon and recheck the download with verify files. Sure enough it needed to download another 2202 files even though Steam said it had finished the download and the game was ready.

OK, so I wait for the 2202 files to finish. Then, just for grins, I figured I'd re-verify the files intact once again, before seeing if the game would run. Sure enough, 8 more files needed to be downloaded. After that the game ran fine under Windows 7. It was getting late so I didn't re-install TMO. Next time I'm over there, I'll put on TMO 1.9 with patch.

Point is: Steam doesn't have a very reliable download process. Apparently, it builds a list of what files it needs to download for the game and then requests them to be downloaded. But if your connection is not supreme, some of those files may not make it and get aborted. Steam just downloads the next file in the list and moves on. Never going back to request the botched file again. As soon as it gets through the end of the list, it says game is complete. But it is not.

I wonder how may people, bought a game from Steam, and downloaded it, then tried to run it, have it crash on them for odd reasons and blame the game for the crashing, when it was Steam's fault for not ensuring the game made it to the machine intact.

What a sad state of computing we live in today.

Just a little heads up on getting games from Steam. You MUST verify.

Steiger · 04-06-10, 03:34 PM

I have never had a single problem with Steam in the 6 or so years I've been using it. Sounds like the problem rests in your relation's internet connection.

magic452 · 04-07-10, 02:08 AM

Some people have had problems and what Bothersome found may explain some of the problems. It may be not Steam but an internet connection or a bad download. Either way Steam gets blamed.

Magic

Zosxavius · 04-07-10, 08:40 PM

Why is it that with steam when I run TMO 1.9 with RSRD TMO v502 and their associated patches the game locks constantly and a bunch of ships are suddenly missing textures. When I uninstall RSRD and leave TMO naked, everything works fine? I thought this was a golden combination? I've installed at least twice via steam (and yes turned off auto-updates and also installed just the U-boat addon first and also tried SH4 and then next the u-boat addon) and I keep getting the same result. Tried downloading different .zips of the mods even though I know they are all identical, just was thinking maybe I had a corrupt mod archive....

Anyways this is really making me mad. At ubisoft they swear that the steam version is the same, but they also say that they applied the patches differently than the gold DVD, whatever that means. Is the gold DVD version missing low res textures for the ships too? (try turning off high res textures, reload and go to the museum and the second battleship should be black with no texture)

Giving GWX a spin in the meantime. Holy smokes did they add a lot of stuff!

SH4 fan · 04-08-10, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zosxavius

Why is it that with steam when I run TMO 1.9 with RSRD TMO v502 and their associated patches the game locks constantly and a bunch of ships are suddenly missing textures. When I uninstall RSRD and leave TMO naked, everything works fine? I thought this was a golden combination? I've installed at least twice via steam (and yes turned off auto-updates and also installed just the U-boat addon first and also tried SH4 and then next the u-boat addon) and I keep getting the same result. Tried downloading different .zips of the mods even though I know they are all identical, just was thinking maybe I had a corrupt mod archive....

Anyways this is really making me mad. At ubisoft they swear that the steam version is the same, but they also say that they applied the patches differently than the gold DVD, whatever that means. Is the gold DVD version missing low res textures for the ships too? (try turning off high res textures, reload and go to the museum and the second battleship should be black with no texture)

Giving GWX a spin in the meantime. Holy smokes did they add a lot of stuff!

The verification procedure may not work. Here is the procedure I had to use to get a mostly stable TMO/RSDC installation

Code:

 0) Uninstall the game and delete the game registry keys after uninstall if 
they are still there
 1) run a reg clean program, and defrag
 2) install SH4 vanilla
 3) verify
  3a) if it needs to download more files, wait until you get a popup  then 
re-verify
 4) restart
 5) defrag
 6) reg clean
 7) test game without changing game settings
 8) install UBM
 9) repeat 3-7
 10) Install mods one at a time
 11) test after each mod is enabled without changing game settings
 12) repeat 10-11 until all mods are in and tested.

For TMO/RSRD
TMO 1.9
TMO patch
RSRD
RSRD patch

Then once everything is in and running go ahead and change the graphics settings. I did have a crash last night due to sound.act but that was after some playing.

tomoose · 04-08-10, 12:12 PM

I've had no probs with Steam at all. One thing I think might be a problem with the DL version is that Steam automatically updates games as soon as you link to Steam. This may be the issue with Bothersome in that there's more "update" files being sent etc.

For example I've played Day of Defeat and Red Orchestra and Steam will update certain files or whatever. The next day, I play again and there was another update which was automaticallyl dl'd (i.e. the game wouldn't start until the update was done). If this concept is the same for SH4 then any new update after TMO is installed may, and probably will, be a conflict as Steam won't know/recognize any 3rd party mod such as TMO ergo the game will crash/not start etc ad naus.

I'd highly recommend getting a DVD copy and avoiding this whole scenario. Combined with TMO 1.9 and any other mods on a seperate DVD you'll have the whole pack and easy re-installs if necessary.

itman · 04-08-10, 12:36 PM

sorry to chip in...

and how's your step-dad likes the game?

Bothersome · 04-08-10, 01:08 PM

tomoose, that's why you have to turn off updates for the game you want to mod.

itman, I haven't talked with him about it yet.

jerm138 · 04-08-10, 05:42 PM

I used Steam for SH3 and SH4 and they both worked fine on initial startup. I've also used Steam for about 20 other games and have never had an issue with their download process. I can see why some people dislike Steam, but for me it's always been great.

The only thing I can figure is that it has something to do with your TMO install.

If you buy SH4 on Steam, you'll only get updated to v1.3. There is no Steam update to v1.4... you have to buy Uboat Missions (v1.5) to get updated.

It sounds like you didn't download Uboat missions, which tells me you're on v1.3. Was the TMO version you installed compatible with v1.3? If not, that could have screwed up the install.

Bothersome · 04-08-10, 08:28 PM

I guess I did forget to mention that he's got the 3 sub package from steam, SH3, SH4, and U-Boat Missions. Yeah I knew to install the U-boats first.

He said he's quite enjoying it. Said he's still climbing the learning curve. I forgot to make a link on his desktop to the manual though.

Zosxavius · 04-08-10, 10:54 PM

that's what I don't get at all. Nobody else seems to be having problems. I haven't had a single problem with any other steam game. its really baffling. the only dvd image i can find is sh4 1.4 + u-boat missions. am i correct in assuming that the patches knock out the disc check? i think i read that somewhere here. who knows. maybe i wasn't thorough enough. i did leave my sh4 savegame directory with the config settings intact in my documents folder and i never deleted any registry keys. I mean, the mods shouldn't change the registry values anyways. Its a real pain to find all the scattered registry keys a program may leave behind too. And yeah, no auto-updates and I installed everything in the correct order. Three more times. Didn't try to validate after install. You would think that I shouldn't have to with my 1.4mb/s cable line.

jerm138 · 04-09-10, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zosxavius

that's what I don't get at all. Nobody else seems to be having problems. I haven't had a single problem with any other steam game. its really baffling. the only dvd image i can find is sh4 1.4 + u-boat missions. am i correct in assuming that the patches knock out the disc check? i think i read that somewhere here. who knows. maybe i wasn't thorough enough. i did leave my sh4 savegame directory with the config settings intact in my documents folder and i never deleted any registry keys. I mean, the mods shouldn't change the registry values anyways. Its a real pain to find all the scattered registry keys a program may leave behind too. And yeah, no auto-updates and I installed everything in the correct order. Three more times. Didn't try to validate after install. You would think that I shouldn't have to with my 1.4mb/s cable line.

Not sure if registry keys are the problem, but there is a free program called ccleaner that will seek out and fix these type of registry issues (junk left behind.) It's also good for cleaning up all temporary files, cookies, and recycle bin in one fell swoop.

SH4 fan · 04-13-10, 12:06 AM

I am still having issues. The museum crashes on me with TMO and every 2nd game after install the textures for the command bar disappear and I am left with a white square where it used to be. As for the Museum crash here is the info I have

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: sh4.exe
Application Version: 1.5.0.0
Application Timestamp: 476a5ca9
Fault Module Name: Kernel.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 476a5b13
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00018b6b
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: fc07
Additional Information 2: e8c5e2c15cf3737d84357d4e7589557f
Additional Information 3: 912e
Additional Information 4: aa509fd5940a2a78eb24c3f39ed9acd7

I may ditch the Steam and go with the Direct2Drive...This is just getting old.

jerm138 · 04-13-10, 07:15 AM

I've heard others say that the museum causes problems with TMO, but it seems to work fine for me (I just now re-verified)

If that was your only issue, I'd say just stay out of the museum. I hope you get it solved. I'd hate to see you buy D2D and get the same problems.

Bothersome · 04-13-10, 09:31 AM

Sometimes, people won't believe in a cure because it makes them come to the realization that their world might actually be all screwed up after all.

JUST DO THE VERIFY.

Yes, you'll have to re-apply the TMO and other mods.

I've got quite good at this adding on mods and trying other things among modding a few parameters myself. Even finding ways to take the best parts of mods like TMO and making my own mix for best results.

In that learning process, I've been re-setting SH4 back to vanilla several times to make sure I have a vanilla start before modding.

Steam, absolutely sucks when it comes to integrity of your download.

Last time, about a week ago, I did a verify on SH4. Said 72 files failed verify and needed to re-download them. Second pass, same 72 files failed. Third pass, same 72 files failed. REBOOT. Forth verify 72 files failed, but this time it actually starts a download with a percentage progress count.

After that I reverify, 220 files failed and needed downloading. Sixth pass, 8 files failed. Seventh pass, All files passed and are OK.

THAT is how reliable Steam is to downloading. And yes my connection is pretty fast. 500 kilobytes per second download rate. I don't think the problem is with the internet, but with Steam's protocol for downloading.

VERIFY. Once you can finally get the message that all files are intact. Then try out the game. Then put on the mods because then you'll know you have a stable install.

04-06-10, 01:09 PM	#1
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Something Steam user should be aware of. I come with a report for Silent Hunter users that may think Silent Hunter is buggy or won't run under windows whatever. Here's the story... I've been talking with my Step-Dad (he's like 80) about WW2 subs and this game SH4 for a few months. Well, he and I can go on for hours talking about such things. He is a retired Chief of the Boat from a modern missile boat. So he's into this stuff. Well a couple of days ago he decided he'd like to get this game and play it himself. I said, well, I get get you the game tonight, and so we went off to Steam to get it downloading. Well his connection was going to take another 4 hours or so to fetch it, so I came back over the next day and to install the TMO 1.9 to get him all fixed up. First mistake I made was not actually trying to run the game as installed by Steam the first time. I put TMO on before even trying to run it for first time. Figured it wouldn't matter. By the way, I knew to turn off the updates for SH4 and for U-boats addon before attempting to put on TMO. All was fine, or so it should have been. Anyway, SH4 wouldn't even act like it's starting up. No opening video or anything. Hmmm. Well I figured I'd remove the TMO addon and recheck the download with verify files. Sure enough it needed to download another 2202 files even though Steam said it had finished the download and the game was ready. OK, so I wait for the 2202 files to finish. Then, just for grins, I figured I'd re-verify the files intact once again, before seeing if the game would run. Sure enough, 8 more files needed to be downloaded. After that the game ran fine under Windows 7. It was getting late so I didn't re-install TMO. Next time I'm over there, I'll put on TMO 1.9 with patch. Point is: Steam doesn't have a very reliable download process. Apparently, it builds a list of what files it needs to download for the game and then requests them to be downloaded. But if your connection is not supreme, some of those files may not make it and get aborted. Steam just downloads the next file in the list and moves on. Never going back to request the botched file again. As soon as it gets through the end of the list, it says game is complete. But it is not. I wonder how may people, bought a game from Steam, and downloaded it, then tried to run it, have it crash on them for odd reasons and blame the game for the crashing, when it was Steam's fault for not ensuring the game made it to the machine intact. What a sad state of computing we live in today. Just a little heads up on getting games from Steam. You MUST verify.

04-06-10, 03:34 PM	#2
Steiger Planesman Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 187 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I have never had a single problem with Steam in the 6 or so years I've been using it. Sounds like the problem rests in your relation's internet connection. __________________

04-07-10, 02:08 AM	#3
magic452 Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Reno Nevada USA Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Some people have had problems and what Bothersome found may explain some of the problems. It may be not Steam but an internet connection or a bad download. Either way Steam gets blamed. Magic __________________ Reported lost 11 Feb. 1942 Signature by depthtok33l

04-08-10, 12:12 PM	#6
tomoose Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 930 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	No probs with Steam I've had no probs with Steam at all. One thing I think might be a problem with the DL version is that Steam automatically updates games as soon as you link to Steam. This may be the issue with Bothersome in that there's more "update" files being sent etc. For example I've played Day of Defeat and Red Orchestra and Steam will update certain files or whatever. The next day, I play again and there was another update which was automaticallyl dl'd (i.e. the game wouldn't start until the update was done). If this concept is the same for SH4 then any new update after TMO is installed may, and probably will, be a conflict as Steam won't know/recognize any 3rd party mod such as TMO ergo the game will crash/not start etc ad naus. I'd highly recommend getting a DVD copy and avoiding this whole scenario. Combined with TMO 1.9 and any other mods on a seperate DVD you'll have the whole pack and easy re-installs if necessary.

04-08-10, 05:42 PM	#9
jerm138 Watch Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 332 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I used Steam for SH3 and SH4 and they both worked fine on initial startup. I've also used Steam for about 20 other games and have never had an issue with their download process. I can see why some people dislike Steam, but for me it's always been great. The only thing I can figure is that it has something to do with your TMO install. If you buy SH4 on Steam, you'll only get updated to v1.3. There is no Steam update to v1.4... you have to buy Uboat Missions (v1.5) to get updated. It sounds like you didn't download Uboat missions, which tells me you're on v1.3. Was the TMO version you installed compatible with v1.3? If not, that could have screwed up the install. __________________

04-07-10, 08:40 PM	#4
Zosxavius Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Why is it that with steam when I run TMO 1.9 with RSRD TMO v502 and their associated patches the game locks constantly and a bunch of ships are suddenly missing textures. When I uninstall RSRD and leave TMO naked, everything works fine? I thought this was a golden combination? I've installed at least twice via steam (and yes turned off auto-updates and also installed just the U-boat addon first and also tried SH4 and then next the u-boat addon) and I keep getting the same result. Tried downloading different .zips of the mods even though I know they are all identical, just was thinking maybe I had a corrupt mod archive.... Anyways this is really making me mad. At ubisoft they swear that the steam version is the same, but they also say that they applied the patches differently than the gold DVD, whatever that means. Is the gold DVD version missing low res textures for the ships too? (try turning off high res textures, reload and go to the museum and the second battleship should be black with no texture) Giving GWX a spin in the meantime. Holy smokes did they add a lot of stuff!

04-08-10, 12:36 PM	#7
itman Seaman Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 41 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 0	sorry to chip in... and how's your step-dad likes the game?

04-08-10, 01:08 PM	#8
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	tomoose, that's why you have to turn off updates for the game you want to mod. itman, I haven't talked with him about it yet.

04-08-10, 08:28 PM	#10
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	I guess I did forget to mention that he's got the 3 sub package from steam, SH3, SH4, and U-Boat Missions. Yeah I knew to install the U-boats first. He said he's quite enjoying it. Said he's still climbing the learning curve. I forgot to make a link on his desktop to the manual though.

04-08-10, 10:54 PM	#11
Zosxavius Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 17 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	that's what I don't get at all. Nobody else seems to be having problems. I haven't had a single problem with any other steam game. its really baffling. the only dvd image i can find is sh4 1.4 + u-boat missions. am i correct in assuming that the patches knock out the disc check? i think i read that somewhere here. who knows. maybe i wasn't thorough enough. i did leave my sh4 savegame directory with the config settings intact in my documents folder and i never deleted any registry keys. I mean, the mods shouldn't change the registry values anyways. Its a real pain to find all the scattered registry keys a program may leave behind too. And yeah, no auto-updates and I installed everything in the correct order. Three more times. Didn't try to validate after install. You would think that I shouldn't have to with my 1.4mb/s cable line.

04-13-10, 12:06 AM	#13
SH4 fan Mate Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 51 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	I am still having issues. The museum crashes on me with TMO and every 2nd game after install the textures for the command bar disappear and I am left with a white square where it used to be. As for the Museum crash here is the info I have Problem signature: Problem Event Name: APPCRASH Application Name: sh4.exe Application Version: 1.5.0.0 Application Timestamp: 476a5ca9 Fault Module Name: Kernel.dll Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0 Fault Module Timestamp: 476a5b13 Exception Code: c0000005 Exception Offset: 00018b6b OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1 Locale ID: 1033 Additional Information 1: fc07 Additional Information 2: e8c5e2c15cf3737d84357d4e7589557f Additional Information 3: 912e Additional Information 4: aa509fd5940a2a78eb24c3f39ed9acd7 I may ditch the Steam and go with the Direct2Drive...This is just getting old.

04-13-10, 07:15 AM	#14
jerm138 Watch Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 332 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I've heard others say that the museum causes problems with TMO, but it seems to work fine for me (I just now re-verified) If that was your only issue, I'd say just stay out of the museum. I hope you get it solved. I'd hate to see you buy D2D and get the same problems. __________________

04-13-10, 09:31 AM	#15
Bothersome Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 194 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Sometimes, people won't believe in a cure because it makes them come to the realization that their world might actually be all screwed up after all. JUST DO THE VERIFY. Yes, you'll have to re-apply the TMO and other mods. I've got quite good at this adding on mods and trying other things among modding a few parameters myself. Even finding ways to take the best parts of mods like TMO and making my own mix for best results. In that learning process, I've been re-setting SH4 back to vanilla several times to make sure I have a vanilla start before modding. Steam, absolutely sucks when it comes to integrity of your download. Last time, about a week ago, I did a verify on SH4. Said 72 files failed verify and needed to re-download them. Second pass, same 72 files failed. Third pass, same 72 files failed. REBOOT. Forth verify 72 files failed, but this time it actually starts a download with a percentage progress count. After that I reverify, 220 files failed and needed downloading. Sixth pass, 8 files failed. Seventh pass, All files passed and are OK. THAT is how reliable Steam is to downloading. And yes my connection is pretty fast. 500 kilobytes per second download rate. I don't think the problem is with the internet, but with Steam's protocol for downloading. VERIFY. Once you can finally get the message that all files are intact. Then try out the game. Then put on the mods because then you'll know you have a stable install.