[RE:] Tweaked torpedoes

Bando · 08-15-07, 06:42 AM

Hello all. I made various tweaks to the torpedoes, all in the readme, the most important one is the Mk10 tweak. This torpedo cannot be fired anymore with a gyro angle. It must be fired while aiming the whole sub. See the readme for details.

Edit

Readme:

Based on the work of CCIP, who made the torpedo hardcore mod.
Basic changes:
-All torpedoes:
-Impulse powers increased
-Arming distances from 200 to 400 mtr
-Mk 10:
-Tweaked depth keeping error to occur max 12 feet.
-This torpedo never had a gyro setting capability, therefore it's removed. This basically means you'll have to aim this torpedo with the ship. TDC is usefull for knowing where the ship is, but not as an aiming tool, for the torpedo will ALWAYS run straight.
-The DUD chances on impact have been reduced. The Mk10 did not have the same pistol problems as Mk 14. There still is a chance there for a dud, to simulate the torpedoes being old and worn.
-Mk 14:
-Wave effects are slightly reduced
-Depth keeping error to max 12 ft.
-Mk 16:
-Had none of the pistol issues of Mk 14, corrected in this file.
-Mk 18:
-Was a poor performing torpedo (abandoned 1950) and it's tweaked in this file to simulate that fact.
-Mk 27:
-This was a passive homer. Should be fired at 100 - 150 ft depth to avoid the little bugger to home on to yourself. At this moment I don't know how to tweak this, maybe a future project.
-The tweaks made on this torpedo are the explosive power (reduced) and the straight run/arming distance which are both set at 400 mtr.

Tested this for about 8 real life hours (approx 2 weeks of sim time) and found it to be working.
Especially the Mk 10 is a challenge.
Hope you like it
Bando

V2

http://files.filefront.com/Torpedo+t.../fileinfo.html

Bill Nichols · 08-15-07, 09:25 AM

My understanding is that the Mk10 did have gyro pots, but these had to be set manually (torpedo out of the tube).

BTW While on Nautilus we actually had to use this aiming method (pointing the boat) during one exercise firing with Mk14s, when our TDC was kaput. Worked like a charm.

tycho102 · 08-15-07, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

BTW While on Nautilus we actually had to use this aiming method (pointing the boat) during one exercise firing with Mk14s, when our TDC was kaput. Worked like a charm.

Could you give some kind of relativistic indicator on that "charm", in the form of a simile?

"Worked like a charm caught on the side of a small hippo while it's tangled up in your rubber raft after slashing it open and throwing everyone into the whitewater rapids."

"Worked like a charm on that Lucky Charms commercial where you want to strangle that annoying Irish guy."

"Worked like a charm as long as you didn't need less than 3 degrees arc resolution."

Bando · 08-15-07, 01:08 PM

lol

AkbarGulag · 08-16-07, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tycho102

"Worked like a charm caught on the side of a small hippo while it's tangled up in your rubber raft after slashing it open and throwing everyone into the whitewater rapids."

:rotfl:

I downloaded your mod. Incase anyone is wondering, it comes with a comprehensive 'Readme' on all the changes. (maybe you could paste the readme text in this thread Bando?)

I think I will need to start a new campaign with a sugar-boat to test this out though. If Bill thinks these may have been gyro capable but had to be loaded AFTER setting gyro's, someone may be able to simulate this with an extra long pause before a tube launches while leaving the Torps adjustable. No idea if it can be done, but with so many Subsim users loving realistic, historically correct content, it may get a few users. Although aiming the whole sub sounds challenging in itself ^^

tater · 08-16-07, 08:27 AM

^^^ LOVE that sig, BTW. LOL

tater · 08-16-07, 10:35 AM

It's too bad the game won't remember gyro angles by fish (instead of globally).

I could see setting up a 1 degree spread on fish before loading.

tater

Bando · 08-16-07, 11:53 AM

What I do myself when i need a spread is firing while the sub is turning. With this mod the Mk10 only fires straight ahaed, so you either need a lot of luck, your calculations must be right, or you must be very close.

Bando · 08-16-07, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkbarGulag

I downloaded your mod. Incase anyone is wondering, it comes with a comprehensive 'Readme' on all the changes. (maybe you could paste the readme text in this thread Bando?)

Done

tater · 08-16-07, 12:05 PM

nice, bando!

The max firing depth is a UPC change (or cfg) for each sub. It's a text file like setting PD depth (might be same file, actually).

Not sure if the depth errors should really be a wide range for either the mk10 or mk14.

From my reading the mk14 was ALWAYS deep, from ~10 to 12 feet. The mk10 was always deep ~4 feet. This is because they were simply calibrated wrong, it wasn't really a depth-keeping issue so much as a fundamental flaw int he calibration. They were effectively SET (zeroed) too deep.

Not sure if you can model that though (I bet they could still have a failure and run outside that "normal" deep run as any torp could have a failure).

tater

Bando · 08-16-07, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

nice, bando!

The max firing depth is a UPC change (or cfg) for each sub. It's a text file like setting PD depth (might be same file, actually).

Not sure if the depth errors should really be a wide range for either the mk10 or mk14.

From my reading the mk14 was ALWAYS deep, from ~10 to 12 feet. The mk10 was always deep ~4 feet. This is because they were simply calibrated wrong, it wasn't really a depth-keeping issue so much as a fundamental flaw int he calibration. They were effectively SET (zeroed) too deep.

Not sure if you can model that though (I bet they could still have a failure and run outside that "normal" deep run as any torp could have a failure).

tater

Oke, I'll look into the depth of the torps when leaving the tube (allthough when anyone knows it's 11 feet deeper, they'll adjust) and see if I can find the depth for releasing the torp. In fact the depth for weapon release is adjustible, what I'd like to do is set the firingdepth for the Mk 27 only. The other torps can then fire at max 100ft, the Mk 27 should than be able to be fired 50 ft deeper. I'm afraid the cfg file adjusts for all torps. Anyway, I'll look into it.

As for the firing of the Mk 10, sometimes the sub won't fire for a lack of a firing solution. I set the target speed in this case to 0, set the scope to straight ahead (or straight astern) and manually select a distance greater than 400 ft. In this case you should be able to get the mk 10 out of the tube.
Wasn't this the way to fire in SS1???? Can't remember, it's been a long time....

Anyway, those days when playing the hardcore mod with a fleet boat and take Mk 10s for some extra assurence are not the same anymore. It really is nervewrecking to fire this baby when the whole sub has to be steered towards the firing solution, which is done either mentally or on a piece of paper. It's not easy to hit now.

Bando · 08-16-07, 12:23 PM

Btw, By altering the explosive values, I may, or may not have offset the balance for the NSM mod by WernerSobe. Any feedback on that is welcome, it may have to be tweaked a little more.

tater · 08-16-07, 12:37 PM

You are right, the firing depth is generic to the boat, and really should be. It's really a function of the ability of the tubes to hold pressure with the outer doors open, I imagine. Outer doors open in such a way that sea pressure tends to push them closed, right? So once open, the inner doors---which open IN become the limiting factor.

SOP US doctrine pre war was to fire deep on sound bearings. 100ft (or more, apparently since I have read that cuties were "required" to be fired from the 150 feet you suggest, plus another account of a fish running hot during a DC attack at 300+ feet, and the boat came up to 150 to try and eject it).

tater

Bando · 08-16-07, 01:05 PM

Yeah, what I did now was set the launchdepth to 150 feet approx for all torps. I tweaked the mk 10 to run 4 ft deeper then set, mk 14 12 feet deeper then set and for the duds i made some more tweaks. Wouldn't want those fish to be too reliable, now would we?

V2 is on the first post

tater · 08-16-07, 01:42 PM

From a gameplay standpoint the only possible problem might be that they'll never be able to hit some ships. Not sure what the min depth setting is, and what it was in RL. If the min in game is 1.8m, and the fish runs 4m deep, then it's not like youy can set the fist to 4m, the bet you'll do is 5.8. Not sure what it was in RL.

I think in the RL tests on depth they got 11 as the average, with 10s and 12s on either side (firing at fishing nets).

tater

08-15-07, 06:42 AM	#1
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	[RE:] Tweaked torpedoes Hello all. I made various tweaks to the torpedoes, all in the readme, the most important one is the Mk10 tweak. This torpedo cannot be fired anymore with a gyro angle. It must be fired while aiming the whole sub. See the readme for details. Edit Readme: Based on the work of CCIP, who made the torpedo hardcore mod. Basic changes: -All torpedoes: -Impulse powers increased -Arming distances from 200 to 400 mtr -Mk 10: -Tweaked depth keeping error to occur max 12 feet. -This torpedo never had a gyro setting capability, therefore it's removed. This basically means you'll have to aim this torpedo with the ship. TDC is usefull for knowing where the ship is, but not as an aiming tool, for the torpedo will ALWAYS run straight. -The DUD chances on impact have been reduced. The Mk10 did not have the same pistol problems as Mk 14. There still is a chance there for a dud, to simulate the torpedoes being old and worn. -Mk 14: -Wave effects are slightly reduced -Depth keeping error to max 12 ft. -Mk 16: -Had none of the pistol issues of Mk 14, corrected in this file. -Mk 18: -Was a poor performing torpedo (abandoned 1950) and it's tweaked in this file to simulate that fact. -Mk 27: -This was a passive homer. Should be fired at 100 - 150 ft depth to avoid the little bugger to home on to yourself. At this moment I don't know how to tweak this, maybe a future project. -The tweaks made on this torpedo are the explosive power (reduced) and the straight run/arming distance which are both set at 400 mtr. Tested this for about 8 real life hours (approx 2 weeks of sim time) and found it to be working. Especially the Mk 10 is a challenge. Hope you like it Bando V2 http://files.filefront.com/Torpedo+t.../fileinfo.html __________________ Regards, Bando Last edited by Bando; 08-18-07 at 08:02 PM.

08-15-07, 09:25 AM	#2
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	My understanding is that the Mk10 did have gyro pots, but these had to be set manually (torpedo out of the tube). BTW While on Nautilus we actually had to use this aiming method (pointing the boat) during one exercise firing with Mk14s, when our TDC was kaput. Worked like a charm. __________________ My Dangerous Waters website:

08-15-07, 01:08 PM	#4
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	lol __________________ Regards, Bando

08-16-07, 11:53 AM	#8
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	What I do myself when i need a spread is firing while the sub is turning. With this mod the Mk10 only fires straight ahaed, so you either need a lot of luck, your calculations must be right, or you must be very close. __________________ Regards, Bando

08-16-07, 12:23 PM	#12
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Btw, By altering the explosive values, I may, or may not have offset the balance for the NSM mod by WernerSobe. Any feedback on that is welcome, it may have to be tweaked a little more. __________________ Regards, Bando

08-16-07, 08:27 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	^^^ LOVE that sig, BTW. LOL

08-16-07, 10:35 AM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's too bad the game won't remember gyro angles by fish (instead of globally). I could see setting up a 1 degree spread on fish before loading. tater

08-16-07, 12:05 PM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	nice, bando! The max firing depth is a UPC change (or cfg) for each sub. It's a text file like setting PD depth (might be same file, actually). Not sure if the depth errors should really be a wide range for either the mk10 or mk14. From my reading the mk14 was ALWAYS deep, from ~10 to 12 feet. The mk10 was always deep ~4 feet. This is because they were simply calibrated wrong, it wasn't really a depth-keeping issue so much as a fundamental flaw int he calibration. They were effectively SET (zeroed) too deep. Not sure if you can model that though (I bet they could still have a failure and run outside that "normal" deep run as any torp could have a failure). tater

08-16-07, 12:37 PM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	You are right, the firing depth is generic to the boat, and really should be. It's really a function of the ability of the tubes to hold pressure with the outer doors open, I imagine. Outer doors open in such a way that sea pressure tends to push them closed, right? So once open, the inner doors---which open IN become the limiting factor. SOP US doctrine pre war was to fire deep on sound bearings. 100ft (or more, apparently since I have read that cuties were "required" to be fired from the 150 feet you suggest, plus another account of a fish running hot during a DC attack at 300+ feet, and the boat came up to 150 to try and eject it). tater

08-16-07, 01:05 PM	#14
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Yeah, what I did now was set the launchdepth to 150 feet approx for all torps. I tweaked the mk 10 to run 4 ft deeper then set, mk 14 12 feet deeper then set and for the duds i made some more tweaks. Wouldn't want those fish to be too reliable, now would we? V2 is on the first post __________________ Regards, Bando

08-16-07, 01:42 PM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	From a gameplay standpoint the only possible problem might be that they'll never be able to hit some ships. Not sure what the min depth setting is, and what it was in RL. If the min in game is 1.8m, and the fish runs 4m deep, then it's not like youy can set the fist to 4m, the bet you'll do is 5.8. Not sure what it was in RL. I think in the RL tests on depth they got 11 as the average, with 10s and 12s on either side (firing at fishing nets). tater