[TEC] Taihosan Maru and AMMO don't mix

tater · 07-12-07, 03:35 PM

A note to anyone making missions. In 1.3, the internal cargo of AMMO plus the Taihosan (small modern composite merchant) are a 100% CTD when the sucker is torpedoed and blows up.

This means that ammo cannot be selected as an internal cargo for GENERIC merchants, either. If you want some ships to have ammo, you'll need to make them explicitly as different types. I have tested all merchant ships, but I still need to test the APs and AOs.

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 04:41 PM

OK, tested the tankers and liners, they work fine, it's just the one ship.

Mush Martin · 07-12-07, 06:57 PM

boy thats interesting as a symptom

what do you suppose is wrong with the cargo
dynamic effect overwhelming chip capacity seems
a bit unlikely , I would suspect that in the ships
configs it doesnt support the cargo anymore but
somehow its been left in. the symptom is like
when a ship doesnt appear in roster and it tries
to spawn. just thinking out loud I guess.
M

tater · 07-12-07, 07:04 PM

Dunno. I put ammo as internal cargo on a small tanker. I fired at her from 600 yards. One of her masts landed 500 yards behind me. So the effects are pretty impressive on other ships as well.

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 07:32 PM

lurker said he's not seeing this. I uninstalled all my mods, then installed 1.3, perhaps I need a clean install.

Will report back. (wasn't looking forward to scragging SH4 and doing a fresh install since the last took a while (my baseline was 1.0->1.2 without playing, then JSGME snapshot, then mods)).

Dunno, perhaps something got corrupted, thought it's not like I screw with the 3d stuff since I don;t know how, lol.

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 09:39 PM

Clean install, still happens.

tater

lurker_hlb3 · 07-12-07, 09:52 PM

Here my test case. Create test mission with sub and small modern composite merchant.ship is DIW and set to "docked" so it won't move, set internal cargo of AMMO

Distance fro ship to sub is 1000 yards, fired 2 torpedo at target.

What is your test case ?

tater · 07-12-07, 09:55 PM

merchie moving at 5 kts in this case. Shot at 1100 yards or so. 1942 02 01

tater · 07-12-07, 10:07 PM

Just tried it 3 times. 2xCTD, 1 didn't. The 1 that didn't I spaced the 3 shots out and she went under before the 3d hit. The last one did it before the 3d fish hit (or maybe the instant it hit before any effects were seen).

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 10:10 PM

http://mpgtext.net/subshare/69Ammo%20CTD%20test.rar

^^^ test mission (no objectives so click to get in)

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 10:33 PM

Changed mission, added more ships. Same ship with ammo crates on deck. It's not the ammo, or the explosion, it's something it does to the ship---maybe breaking in half is broken and that is more likely with ammo cargo?

tater

tater · 07-12-07, 11:13 PM

Look at that image. I fired 10 torpedos at a taihosan (default depth) from 800 yards or so. It FINALLY broke, but it forms a scissors. That was broken aft of the superstructure. I wonder if it CTDs with it breaking in front... that destroyed ship is ONE PIECE.

If you look at that end-on, they are in line. The part hanging down to the right from the bow area is the INSIDE of the stern, and the area hanging down to the left from the stern is the INSIDE of the bow areas.

tater

lurker_hlb3 · 07-12-07, 11:15 PM

I'll give this a test in the morning. Right now my main system is being used by my son ( WoW). Will let you know

tater · 07-12-07, 11:35 PM

BTW, in case that image was not clear, part of the damage shown in the image was the INTERNALS attached to the stern going to the bow, and the intact external bow with the internals of the stern aft forming the "scissors."

I tested again. 2 x taihosan. One is a control, default cargo. the other has ammo.

Without ammo, I can NEVER get the ship to break forward of the superstructure, even with 6 torps tip to tail into the same hole under the forward goalpost.

I tried again with Natural Sinking Mechanics mod. I can hit the AMMO version in the aft hold, and I get ammo effect explosion, and the ship breaks cleanly aft of superstructure. Hit under the forwad goalpost (with 4 fish) and it CTDs.

I'm pretty confident it's a model problem that never got caught (maybe since the stock game uses NO cargo aside from default?). When the model tries to break under the forward hold, it CTDs.

BTW, I'm thinking this is NOT new with 1.3. I bet it just never came up before. No one playing the defaul campaign would ever see the problem since there is no "interesting" cargo ever used. So the only people who'd see it would be playing my campaign, or another mod campaign. This is the smallest merchant as well, so in a convoy it's the least likely to be attacked, and the least likely to get multiple fish if it is. Even in my campaign, the AMMO cargos are in generic merchants, so even if that merchant gets picked, there is only a 1 in 9 chance it's the small modern composite.

tater

Mush Martin · 07-13-07, 08:10 AM

Tater is there a tweaker impulse setting for the cargo?

07-12-07, 03:35 PM	#1
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	[TEC] Taihosan Maru and AMMO don't mix A note to anyone making missions. In 1.3, the internal cargo of AMMO plus the Taihosan (small modern composite merchant) are a 100% CTD when the sucker is torpedoed and blows up. This means that ammo cannot be selected as an internal cargo for GENERIC merchants, either. If you want some ships to have ammo, you'll need to make them explicitly as different types. I have tested all merchant ships, but I still need to test the APs and AOs. tater

07-12-07, 06:57 PM	#3
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	boy thats interesting as a symptom what do you suppose is wrong with the cargo dynamic effect overwhelming chip capacity seems a bit unlikely , I would suspect that in the ships configs it doesnt support the cargo anymore but somehow its been left in. the symptom is like when a ship doesnt appear in roster and it tries to spawn. just thinking out loud I guess. M __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

07-12-07, 11:13 PM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Look at that image. I fired 10 torpedos at a taihosan (default depth) from 800 yards or so. It FINALLY broke, but it forms a scissors. That was broken aft of the superstructure. I wonder if it CTDs with it breaking in front... that destroyed ship is ONE PIECE. If you look at that end-on, they are in line. The part hanging down to the right from the bow area is the INSIDE of the stern, and the area hanging down to the left from the stern is the INSIDE of the bow areas. tater Last edited by tater; 07-12-07 at 11:51 PM.

07-13-07, 08:10 AM	#15
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Tater is there a tweaker impulse setting for the cargo? __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

07-12-07, 04:41 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	OK, tested the tankers and liners, they work fine, it's just the one ship.

07-12-07, 07:04 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Dunno. I put ammo as internal cargo on a small tanker. I fired at her from 600 yards. One of her masts landed 500 yards behind me. So the effects are pretty impressive on other ships as well. tater

07-12-07, 07:32 PM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	lurker said he's not seeing this. I uninstalled all my mods, then installed 1.3, perhaps I need a clean install. Will report back. (wasn't looking forward to scragging SH4 and doing a fresh install since the last took a while (my baseline was 1.0->1.2 without playing, then JSGME snapshot, then mods)). Dunno, perhaps something got corrupted, thought it's not like I screw with the 3d stuff since I don;t know how, lol. tater

07-12-07, 09:39 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Clean install, still happens. tater

07-12-07, 09:52 PM	#7
lurker_hlb3 Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Diego Calif Posts: 2,290 Downloads: 187 Uploads: 12	Here my test case. Create test mission with sub and small modern composite merchant.ship is DIW and set to "docked" so it won't move, set internal cargo of AMMO Distance fro ship to sub is 1000 yards, fired 2 torpedo at target. What is your test case ?

07-12-07, 09:55 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	merchie moving at 5 kts in this case. Shot at 1100 yards or so. 1942 02 01

07-12-07, 10:07 PM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Just tried it 3 times. 2xCTD, 1 didn't. The 1 that didn't I spaced the 3 shots out and she went under before the 3d hit. The last one did it before the 3d fish hit (or maybe the instant it hit before any effects were seen). tater

07-12-07, 10:10 PM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	http://mpgtext.net/subshare/69Ammo%20CTD%20test.rar ^^^ test mission (no objectives so click to get in) tater

07-12-07, 10:33 PM	#11
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Changed mission, added more ships. Same ship with ammo crates on deck. It's not the ammo, or the explosion, it's something it does to the ship---maybe breaking in half is broken and that is more likely with ammo cargo? tater

07-12-07, 11:15 PM	#13
lurker_hlb3 Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Diego Calif Posts: 2,290 Downloads: 187 Uploads: 12	I'll give this a test in the morning. Right now my main system is being used by my son ( WoW). Will let you know

07-12-07, 11:35 PM	#14
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	BTW, in case that image was not clear, part of the damage shown in the image was the INTERNALS attached to the stern going to the bow, and the intact external bow with the internals of the stern aft forming the "scissors." I tested again. 2 x taihosan. One is a control, default cargo. the other has ammo. Without ammo, I can NEVER get the ship to break forward of the superstructure, even with 6 torps tip to tail into the same hole under the forward goalpost. I tried again with Natural Sinking Mechanics mod. I can hit the AMMO version in the aft hold, and I get ammo effect explosion, and the ship breaks cleanly aft of superstructure. Hit under the forwad goalpost (with 4 fish) and it CTDs. I'm pretty confident it's a model problem that never got caught (maybe since the stock game uses NO cargo aside from default?). When the model tries to break under the forward hold, it CTDs. BTW, I'm thinking this is NOT new with 1.3. I bet it just never came up before. No one playing the defaul campaign would ever see the problem since there is no "interesting" cargo ever used. So the only people who'd see it would be playing my campaign, or another mod campaign. This is the smallest merchant as well, so in a convoy it's the least likely to be attacked, and the least likely to get multiple fish if it is. Even in my campaign, the AMMO cargos are in generic merchants, so even if that merchant gets picked, there is only a 1 in 9 chance it's the small modern composite. tater