[REL] Realistic Sinking Physics

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 02:49 PM

LATEST VERSION 2.6 (20.07.07)
FOR PATCH 1.3

No matter how you like them sinking.

is it blowing their bunkers?

or maybe their flamable cargo?

maybe you like them just flooding all over?

or are you the guy who goes for their keel?

or do you like them down under?

or simple turning their decks into hell?

In any case, this mod is the right tool for you!

Natural Sinking Mechanics Mod

Intro:

Natural Sinking Mechanics Mod will greatly increase your silent hunter expirience by making the ships sink in more natural way. Entire damage system has been reworked, its no longer based on hitpoints but much more on physical action. Ill explain how the new damage system works later on. This is a realism mod. The ship sinking rates and the different sinking behavier has been tweaked as much accurate to historical records as possible.

Some ships will sink in a matter of seconds, another will take hours. But in General the sinking rate were greatly increased. All ships will sink much slower then they do in stock but that is not a rule. You will have to learn to evaluate the way how the ships are sinking and make decissions how to hit them the best way. And you will have to learn where the ships have their weakness.

Installation and Compability

Use JSGME or copy all files into sh4 root directory. Make sure to make backups.

Not compatible with "Die Slowly" by Redwine. NSM will not work when other mods that make changes in zones.cfg are installed over it. Install NSM last to be on sure side.

You can use Torpedoe_US.zon file of your liking.

You can use any Gun Mod of your liking. It doesnt matter how much damage your deckgun does. Its no longer about hitpoints but only where you hit the ship with that.

Fully compatible with TMaru, as long you install this mod last, all functions of TMaru will remain.

The new Damage System:

At first some physics. There is only one reason why ships actualy stay afloat Their total weight is less then the weight of the water they displace. And there is only one way to sink them. By increasing their total weight beyond their displacement. In other words they must be flooded with water. Be it by making holes in the hull, explosion inside, or making them roll over. The air inside must be replaced with water in one way or another.

In Silent Hunter 4 ships sink much more from losing hitpoints. Each ship has a certain amount of hitpoints. The game however does simulate flooding and they can also be sank by that. But in Stock SH4 entire flooding system is more about eye candy. Ships still sink by hitpoints. The aim of that mod is to completely eliminate hitpoint damage and add different ways to fill the ship with water until its weight gets beyond the displacement. It sounds complicated but its much easier. You just have to be smart. The damage system was tested and tweaked for a long time. There will be no unsinkable ships. You might have the first impression that they dont sink but they do. Ships will sink even if you havent been smart and hit it not at the right place they will sink it will just take longer and require more hits. You must be patient and sometimes wait to see if you must give it one more hit or if it was already enough...

Recomended Amount of Torpedoes for different Ships and observed Sinking Times

Small Merchants (less then 3500 tons) will require one or two torpedo hits. They are sinking in about 20 minutes in average.
Medium Freighters (3500 - 5500 tons) will in most cases wistand one torpedo hit but not always. Two will sink most of them but some will survive more. They sink in about 40 minutes in average.
Large Cargo Ships (over 5500 tons) will eat two, three or four they can sink up to several hours if not finished off.
Merchants that Carry Fuel (tankers) or Ammunitions will in most cases explode in a huge fireball from a single hit, destroyed and can even damage other ships nearby.
Destroyers will in most cases need one hit. If not sank by its exploding Ammunitions they will flood up fast in about 5 - 10 minutes.
Carriers and Cruisers will take two or three. They could take much more but they tend to capsize quickly that being their end
Battleships will take three and more. This is mostly a luckshot they also tend to capsize quickly after suffering several torpedoe hits on one side. Their weakness are their ammo bunkers. When one of those explode it ignites the other and the fuel too. They will sink quite fast in about 10 - 20 minutes when ammo bunkers explode but they can stay for hours capsized.

Important Notes

Remember you must achieve one of that goals to score a kill and tonnage.

1. the vessel must be either observed entirely sinking

2. or you must observe their crew leaving the ship.

you may not damage a ship and get out of area. It might sink 3 hours later from your damage but you will not score a kill when youre not in area. So finish them off or stay around and wait. The crews will act smart. When they know the ship can stay afloat they will try to do their best. When they know the ship is not to retrieve they will leave the vessel and you will score the hit (if you are observing that)

Example. You hit a small vessel and damage 3 of its 5 compartments. The crew knows that the ship can stay afloat with 2 compartment filled but not with 3. In that case they will evacuate the ship before they are fully filled. They will not wait until the ship is filled up to masts. This happened very often in the last version. But you will rarely see that in this version unless you realy make huge holes. The crew will in most cases fight untill the end. So you will get "Enemy Unit Destroyed" Messege when its realy clear that it cannot stay afloat with that holes.

Deckgun

You must use the deckgun in quite different way as you are used to. It is very difficult to sink an undamaged ship with deckgun only because you will need a lot of shells to make a lot of holes. But it is awesome for finishing off damaged ships that are not worth another torpedo. If you see clearly the ship has more serried compartments that keep her afloat. Make few holes on them below the water line and watch how much faster she sinks. Sometimes ships streithen up when sinking and stay verticaly with the stern sticking out of water like the titanic and do not sink. Add few holes to the that kork and let the air inside exhaust. That will make them sink for sure.

Basic Changes (for modders)

1. increased hitpoints for all ships to 20000

2. reworked and ballanced floodings for every compartment of every ship.

3. balanced floatability for every compartment of every ship to help the crew meet the right decission when its time to abandon the ship.

Download: http://files.filefront.com/NSM26zip/;8100796;;/fileinfo.html

As usual there is a single mission for your testings with different ships. Enjoy...

leovampire · 07-06-07, 03:10 PM

All the hit points and Armor levels have been adjusted to more where they should be for all ships and effects have been added to show explosions for certain things that are hit and slower sinking times and a variety of sinkings according to the damage they have taken to what part of the ship. Originaly The Yamamoto had hit points and armor like a Freighter now it is the strongest ship in the Jap fleet and with the simulated oil and fuel loaded into tankers when you breach a cargo hold KABOOM and it will sink with a trail of ocean surface fires behind it until it stops drifting.

kv29 · 07-06-07, 03:14 PM

Great. I will give it a shot, thanks

tater · 07-06-07, 03:25 PM

I'd be all over this except that I want to keep the hardcore torpedo mod. What value was changed in the torpedo file?

(guess I can look at it if I can find the torpedo tweak file...)

tater

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

All the hit points and Armor levels have been adjusted to more where they should be for all ships and effects have been added to show explosions for certain things that are hit and slower sinking times and a variety of sinkings according to the damage they have taken to what part of the ship. Originaly The Yamamoto had hit points and armor like a Freighter now it is the strongest ship in the Jap fleet and with the simulated oil and fuel loaded into tankers when you breach a cargo hold KABOOM and it will sink with a trail of ocean surface fires behind it until it stops drifting.

no this mod does not change anything with hitpoints and armor levels. It just makes ships sink in different way. Not by hitpoints but by flooding.

panthercules · 07-06-07, 03:26 PM

Sounds very interesting - is this something that you really need to be in port to install or should it work mid-patrol?

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I'd be all over this except that I want to keep the hardcore torpedo mod. What value was changed in the torpedo file?

(guess I can look at it if I can find the torpedo tweak file...)

tater

torpedo damage was reduced to prevent the ships blow up before they are flooded. Anyway you will expirience more powerfull torpedoes because they cause heavy flooding now.

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthercules

Sounds very interesting - is this something that you really need to be in port to install or should it work mid-patrol?

not sure about that. I think it should work in mid patrol but give it a try and let me know. Run the test mission first to see the difference.

kv29 · 07-06-07, 03:38 PM

with this mod, would a torpedoed ship sink inevitably by flooding, or can survive?

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:44 PM

it can survive of course. depends on the size of the flooding compartment and its cargo. But all compartments can take more water then in stock. means you dont need to fill 4 or 5 compartments to sink a vessel. one or two will do as i said depends on their size and cargo.

example. you hit a ship under first mast. The compartment fills with water in about 30 minutes but that alone is not enough to sink the ship. But because the bow of the ship is now completely below the water line, more water is coming over the deck into other compartments, making them flooding too and finely sinking the ship.

kv29 · 07-06-07, 03:47 PM

ok, do you know if the damage decal have been affected by the mod? decals are related to torpedo effectivenes

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:49 PM

not sure what you mean

kv29 · 07-06-07, 03:51 PM

decals (holes) are related to torpedo effectivenes and radius, the same happens with the deckgun values. when we set lower values than stock, the "holes" gets smaller, or simply dissappear, as with the rfb mod (you can´t see not even 1 hole made by deck guns).

WernerSobe · 07-06-07, 03:55 PM

ah now i know what you mean.

no the holes are looking the same. I think its not the damage its armor piercing. When you lower armor piercing they might disappear. But dont worry they are still there and are same size as stock.

tater · 07-06-07, 04:04 PM

Do ships have left/right compartments? Is capsizing a function of damage on 1 side?

According to what I read someplace (dunno where) the USN studied our losses to the U-boats and determined that most ships were sunk due to loss of stability, not flooding per se. It sounds like your mod does this if you see more ships list, then sink, or go down at the bow or stern, then sink...

tater

07-06-07, 02:49 PM	#1
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics 2.6 (20.07) LATEST VERSION 2.6 (20.07.07) FOR PATCH 1.3 No matter how you like them sinking. is it blowing their bunkers? or maybe their flamable cargo? maybe you like them just flooding all over? or are you the guy who goes for their keel? or do you like them down under? or simple turning their decks into hell? In any case, this mod is the right tool for you! Natural Sinking Mechanics Mod Intro: Natural Sinking Mechanics Mod will greatly increase your silent hunter expirience by making the ships sink in more natural way. Entire damage system has been reworked, its no longer based on hitpoints but much more on physical action. Ill explain how the new damage system works later on. This is a realism mod. The ship sinking rates and the different sinking behavier has been tweaked as much accurate to historical records as possible. Some ships will sink in a matter of seconds, another will take hours. But in General the sinking rate were greatly increased. All ships will sink much slower then they do in stock but that is not a rule. You will have to learn to evaluate the way how the ships are sinking and make decissions how to hit them the best way. And you will have to learn where the ships have their weakness. Installation and Compability Use JSGME or copy all files into sh4 root directory. Make sure to make backups. Not compatible with "Die Slowly" by Redwine. NSM will not work when other mods that make changes in zones.cfg are installed over it. Install NSM last to be on sure side. You can use Torpedoe_US.zon file of your liking. You can use any Gun Mod of your liking. It doesnt matter how much damage your deckgun does. Its no longer about hitpoints but only where you hit the ship with that. Fully compatible with TMaru, as long you install this mod last, all functions of TMaru will remain. The new Damage System: At first some physics. There is only one reason why ships actualy stay afloat Their total weight is less then the weight of the water they displace. And there is only one way to sink them. By increasing their total weight beyond their displacement. In other words they must be flooded with water. Be it by making holes in the hull, explosion inside, or making them roll over. The air inside must be replaced with water in one way or another. In Silent Hunter 4 ships sink much more from losing hitpoints. Each ship has a certain amount of hitpoints. The game however does simulate flooding and they can also be sank by that. But in Stock SH4 entire flooding system is more about eye candy. Ships still sink by hitpoints. The aim of that mod is to completely eliminate hitpoint damage and add different ways to fill the ship with water until its weight gets beyond the displacement. It sounds complicated but its much easier. You just have to be smart. The damage system was tested and tweaked for a long time. There will be no unsinkable ships. You might have the first impression that they dont sink but they do. Ships will sink even if you havent been smart and hit it not at the right place they will sink it will just take longer and require more hits. You must be patient and sometimes wait to see if you must give it one more hit or if it was already enough... Recomended Amount of Torpedoes for different Ships and observed Sinking Times Small Merchants (less then 3500 tons) will require one or two torpedo hits. They are sinking in about 20 minutes in average. Medium Freighters (3500 - 5500 tons) will in most cases wistand one torpedo hit but not always. Two will sink most of them but some will survive more. They sink in about 40 minutes in average. Large Cargo Ships (over 5500 tons) will eat two, three or four they can sink up to several hours if not finished off. Merchants that Carry Fuel (tankers) or Ammunitions will in most cases explode in a huge fireball from a single hit, destroyed and can even damage other ships nearby. Destroyers will in most cases need one hit. If not sank by its exploding Ammunitions they will flood up fast in about 5 - 10 minutes. Carriers and Cruisers will take two or three. They could take much more but they tend to capsize quickly that being their end Battleships will take three and more. This is mostly a luckshot they also tend to capsize quickly after suffering several torpedoe hits on one side. Their weakness are their ammo bunkers. When one of those explode it ignites the other and the fuel too. They will sink quite fast in about 10 - 20 minutes when ammo bunkers explode but they can stay for hours capsized. Important Notes Remember you must achieve one of that goals to score a kill and tonnage. 1. the vessel must be either observed entirely sinking 2. or you must observe their crew leaving the ship. you may not damage a ship and get out of area. It might sink 3 hours later from your damage but you will not score a kill when youre not in area. So finish them off or stay around and wait. The crews will act smart. When they know the ship can stay afloat they will try to do their best. When they know the ship is not to retrieve they will leave the vessel and you will score the hit (if you are observing that) Example. You hit a small vessel and damage 3 of its 5 compartments. The crew knows that the ship can stay afloat with 2 compartment filled but not with 3. In that case they will evacuate the ship before they are fully filled. They will not wait until the ship is filled up to masts. This happened very often in the last version. But you will rarely see that in this version unless you realy make huge holes. The crew will in most cases fight untill the end. So you will get "Enemy Unit Destroyed" Messege when its realy clear that it cannot stay afloat with that holes. Deckgun You must use the deckgun in quite different way as you are used to. It is very difficult to sink an undamaged ship with deckgun only because you will need a lot of shells to make a lot of holes. But it is awesome for finishing off damaged ships that are not worth another torpedo. If you see clearly the ship has more serried compartments that keep her afloat. Make few holes on them below the water line and watch how much faster she sinks. Sometimes ships streithen up when sinking and stay verticaly with the stern sticking out of water like the titanic and do not sink. Add few holes to the that kork and let the air inside exhaust. That will make them sink for sure. Basic Changes (for modders) 1. increased hitpoints for all ships to 20000 2. reworked and ballanced floodings for every compartment of every ship. 3. balanced floatability for every compartment of every ship to help the crew meet the right decission when its time to abandon the ship. Download: http://files.filefront.com/NSM26zip/;8100796;;/fileinfo.html As usual there is a single mission for your testings with different ships. Enjoy... Last edited by WernerSobe; 07-20-07 at 12:31 PM.

07-06-07, 03:10 PM	#2
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	That is what the MOD Die Slowly does All the hit points and Armor levels have been adjusted to more where they should be for all ships and effects have been added to show explosions for certain things that are hit and slower sinking times and a variety of sinkings according to the damage they have taken to what part of the ship. Originaly The Yamamoto had hit points and armor like a Freighter now it is the strongest ship in the Jap fleet and with the simulated oil and fuel loaded into tankers when you breach a cargo hold KABOOM and it will sink with a trail of ocean surface fires behind it until it stops drifting. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

07-06-07, 03:26 PM	#6
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Sounds very interesting - is this something that you really need to be in port to install or should it work mid-patrol? __________________

07-06-07, 03:14 PM	#3
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Great. I will give it a shot, thanks

07-06-07, 03:25 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I'd be all over this except that I want to keep the hardcore torpedo mod. What value was changed in the torpedo file? (guess I can look at it if I can find the torpedo tweak file...) tater

07-06-07, 03:38 PM	#9
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	with this mod, would a torpedoed ship sink inevitably by flooding, or can survive?

07-06-07, 03:44 PM	#10
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	it can survive of course. depends on the size of the flooding compartment and its cargo. But all compartments can take more water then in stock. means you dont need to fill 4 or 5 compartments to sink a vessel. one or two will do as i said depends on their size and cargo. example. you hit a ship under first mast. The compartment fills with water in about 30 minutes but that alone is not enough to sink the ship. But because the bow of the ship is now completely below the water line, more water is coming over the deck into other compartments, making them flooding too and finely sinking the ship.

07-06-07, 03:47 PM	#11
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	ok, do you know if the damage decal have been affected by the mod? decals are related to torpedo effectivenes

07-06-07, 03:49 PM	#12
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	not sure what you mean

07-06-07, 03:51 PM	#13
kv29 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Buenos Aires Posts: 342 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	decals (holes) are related to torpedo effectivenes and radius, the same happens with the deckgun values. when we set lower values than stock, the "holes" gets smaller, or simply dissappear, as with the rfb mod (you can´t see not even 1 hole made by deck guns).

07-06-07, 03:55 PM	#14
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	ah now i know what you mean. no the holes are looking the same. I think its not the damage its armor piercing. When you lower armor piercing they might disappear. But dont worry they are still there and are same size as stock.

07-06-07, 04:04 PM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Do ships have left/right compartments? Is capsizing a function of damage on 1 side? According to what I read someplace (dunno where) the USN studied our losses to the U-boats and determined that most ships were sunk due to loss of stability, not flooding per se. It sounds like your mod does this if you see more ships list, then sink, or go down at the bow or stern, then sink... tater