FSAA/Anti-aliasing/Major resolution problem (merged)

[Ark]

Hello, all.

I found this pic here at Subsim, and I couldn't help but notice it reminds me of the garbage that is Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter and Rainbow 6 Vegas (both Ubisoft Games). For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, neither of those games, of which I already stated are both Ubisoft releases, support FSAA. Yes, that's right, they do NOT support FSAA. I hate to say it, but this screenshot looks exactly like GRAW and Vegas. Please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me that FSAA is supported in SHIV, and that they didn't "re-model" the engine in a way that disables the ability to use FSAA (yes, that's right...FSAA can't even be forced in those other games I mentioned).

[flintlock]

Just set AA and AF via your graphic drivers and have those override any ingame settings. If I have both set to zero, SH3 looks similarly poor too.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by flintlock

Just set AA and AF via your graphic drivers and have those override any ingame settings. If I have both set to zero, SH3 looks similarly poor too.

No, what I'm saying is...

In GRAW and Vegas, you CAN'T force FSAA. There is NO WAY to use FSAA in-game. You CAN'T force it in the driver control panel.

Upon further review of the screenshots at Marinesims, ALL of the sacreenshots lack FSAA. Good Lord....Ubisoft, please tell me you didn't screw up the ability to use FSAA like you did in GRAW and Vegas!

EDIT - Yep, sure looks like GRAW and Vegas alright. Turn on HDR, and BAM, no FSAA. If this is how SHIV is going to be...what a joke. For reference, turn on "bloom" on SH3 and watch the FSAA go bye-bye!

I hope by "upgraded SH3 engine", they didn't really mean "POS Unreal 2 updated engine".

[flintlock]

Ahh, okay. I recall in BF2 you had to set AA via the in-game settings, as forcing AA via ATI's CCC or CP didn't work.

Let's just hope it's there and it's off in those screens for demo/performance reasons.

Forever the eternal optimist,
flintlock

[Ark]

Originally Posted by flintlock

Ahh, okay. I recall in BF2 you had to set AA via the in-game settings, as forcing AA via ATI's CCC or CP didn't work.

Let's just hope it's there and it's off in those screens for demo/performance reasons.

Forever the eternal optimist,
flintlock

I updated my post above.

My BF2 ran fine with out-of-game FSAA set (I have an Nvidia card though).

I hope they didn't do this nonsense to SHIV. In GRAW and Vegas, they went for all this HDR (bloom) and other stuff it essentially disabled everybody's ability to use FSAA. Because of this, GRAW and Vegas look like, IMO, garbage. Talk about anti-climatic graphics....GRAW anyone? So far, the past 3 Ubisoft games that have come out have had this un-tuned, performance hogging, underwhelming engine. I hope SHIV doens't have this engine. If it does, then SHIV is completely ruined for me. I just don't feel immersed in a game when it is a jaggy mess everywhere I look (also, turning up the resolution to 1600x1200 doesn't really make anything look better either).

(Btw....disabling the HDR in the config. files using notepad didn't fix the FSAA problem in those other games either).

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but I had high hopes for GRAW and Vegas and both were a HUGE letdown for me because of the lack of FSAA. Maybe I'm a graphics whore, maybe not....but I just don't like games that simply CAN'T use FSAA. These days we have superfast videocards and superfast cpus, there's no reason for development teams to use crappy engines that don't allow for FSAA.

I will bump this thread until we (at least I hope I'm not alone, lol) get a definitive answer.

[Boris]

As I posted in another thread, I suspect that AA won't work with the post-processing effects shown activated in these shots.
If anyone ever tried activating the bloom feature in SH3 by pressing shift pg-up, you would have noticed any Forced AA being deaktivated. When bloom is turned off again, the AA comes back.
I suspect that the post-processing effects may use a bloom effect similar to SH3, which prevents AA.

We may be able to turn these effects off though.

EDIT: Maybe Seth can clarify at least this one thing for us?

[trenken]

Are you talking about the PC versions of GRAW and R6V? If you're talking about the 360s versions, which both look much better than their PC counterparts, I might be wrong but I don't think you can build a PC without spending like 10k to do what the 360 can do. That screenshot isn't anywhere near the same ballpark of what I saw in GRAW or R6V on my 360.

[trenken]

Also, as far as AA, i've seen a bunch of shots that looked very smooth (not sure if they were in game), and a bunch that looked jaggy as all hell. AA is very important to me so I hope it's in SH4.

[flintlock]

Originally Posted by trenken

AA is very important to me so I hope it's in SH4.

It is to anyone with a discerning eye.

I didn't have many issues with SH3. I used to play with 6xAA and 16xAF and it looked pretty respectable to me (I played with bloom off).

[Ark]

Originally Posted by trenken

Are you talking about the PC versions of GRAW and R6V? If you're talking about the 360s versions, which both look much better than their PC counterparts, I might be wrong but I don't think you can build a PC without spending like 10k to do what the 360 can do. That screenshot isn't anywhere near the same ballpark of what I saw in GRAW or R6V on my 360.

Exactly.

The PC versions of both products looked sub-par at best to their 360 counterparts.

Disabling HDR in GRAW (PC) and Vegas (PC) did NOT allow for FSAA either.

When screenies of GRAW (PC) were first posted on the Ubisoft site, they looked like they had the ability to utilize FSAA, well, those photos were "re-touched", and it was later realized that the PC versions of both cgames did not support FSAA.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by flintlock

It is to anyone with a discerning eye.

I didn't have many issues with SH3. I used to play with 6xAA and 16xAF and it looked pretty respectable to me.

Yep.

BUT...

Turn on "bloom" in SH3 and the FSAA is disabled automatically.

Personally, and if what I suspect is the case here is in fact true, I would have MUCH rather had SH3's engine (with the addition of the see-through water) with just the Pacific theatre and whatnot.

[NefariousKoel]

Splitting hairs..

I know the jaggies can be annoying but I'm just happy as hell to have a modern Pac theater sim. I haven't played one since Silent Service/ Silent Service 2 (and not much on 2).

Besides, I didn't think the graphics were that bad on GRAW. I guess I'm just an old-timer who's grateful I'm not seeing 8 bit.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

Splitting hairs..

I know the jaggies can be annoying but I'm just happy as hell to have a modern Pac theater sim. I haven't played one since Silent Service/ Silent Service 2 (and not much on 2).

Besides, I didn't think the graphics were that bad on GRAW. I guess I'm just an old-timer who's grateful I'm not seeing 8 bit.

It's not splitting hairs when you see it in motion, or are required to see objects at a distance.

Lack of FSAA + distance = can be a royal pain.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to just "settle" for things just because we didn't have them before (that is just me though...I don't expect everybody to agree with me). It's the mentality that "we should just be happy with what we get", that provides no motivation to go one step further. If they produced SHIV without the ability to utilize FSAA, that means Ubisoft failed to listen to a LOT of people who complained about GRAW and it's lack of FSAA...then did the same with Vegas. If they did this in SHIV, that means Ubisoft has effectively ignored the requests of many of it's customers for 3 titles. I find that unacceptable. I, for one, am tired of buying products that utilize a sub-standard engine simply because "that's all they have". Technology is supposed to improve with age. From the looks of it, what we are all getting, is SH3 with GRAWS "modified" Unreal 2 engine. An engine that, for the most part, has been heralded as highly unoptimized, and to many people, somewhat" ugly".

If you took your car to a car wash, and the guy washing your car was charging $5 for a total wash OR $5 for the car but not the windows or tires, and you said, "hey, I'm just happy I'm getting my car washed".......which wash do you think you would get?

On a side note, the screenies at Marinesims perplex me. The game, in some shots, looks like it has no FSAA, while other shots look like some FSAA has been applied to some objects but not others. I just hope we can get a definitive answer here.

[NefariousKoel]

I honestly see your point Ark.

There was no need for a metaphor there, I do agree with you. However, I'm not so worried about jaggies as much as features is the only point I was attempting to poorly make.

[Ark]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I honestly see your point Ark.

There was no need for a metaphor there, I do agree with you. However, I'm not so worried about jaggies as much as features is the only point I was attempting to poorly make.

Hehe, don't take the metaphor as an attack. I use metaphors all day long....it's a character flaw.

I get what you are saying as well. My stance is, with the hardware we have available to us today...why can't we have looks and substance? I may be answering my own question here, but I think the answer to that question lies at the feet of Ubisoft. Where I get upset, is the idea that if SHIV utilizes the same engine as GRAW, then there has been more than enough time to improve on it. If it hasn't really improved at all, I see no progress....I hate that, and in all honesty, I don't see any justification for it either.