Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Obltn Strand]

Originally Posted by SquareSteelBar

That's the one.

[Stiebler]

There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about the use of thermal layers by U-boats.

1. Is it certain whether U-boats had equipment to measure the effect?
Oesten seems to think not, but others have stated differently, saying that U-boats contained a special gauge. In February 1945, U 978 claimed to have escaped a search by warships in shallow waters by 'exploitation of water stratifications', which implies that the crew knew where the thermal layers existed.

2. To what depths do useful thermal layers occur?
Does anyone know? (I do not.) Logically, one might guess that thermal layers caused by the effects of solar heating should occur much more often in shallow waters than at deep depths. SH3Commander uses Hemisent's data, which set the effects of the thermal layers randomly at about 200m, whch seems to be very deep.

3. Do thermal layers actually provide any kind of useful protection to a submarine?
Clearly, if thermal layers provided good protection, no deep submarine (of World War II, let us ignore modern technology) could ever be sunk by depth-charges, unless accidentally. There is no evidence of such perfect protection. The diagrams shown in the references (provided by other people above) are evidently over-simplistic and exaggerated.

There seems to be little purpose in making a thermal layers mod until such important questions can be answered.

Could I remind readers also that my 'Asdic-in shallow-waters' mod provides a partial solution to this problem already (in the Stiebler2A addon for Hsie V16A3), although my solution is dependent only on water depth and not on random factors.

Stiebler.

[jaxa]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Rubini: Thermal layers have not been discussed here, I think, because Sh3Cmdr. models them quite well. Regarding future: I don't know what it will bring?

@jaxa: If JSGME reports no conflicting files at all, the sequence doesn't matter.

h.sie, but res fix isn't enabled by jsgme, it's a .bat executable file
After fresh install of SH3 I enable SP2 res fix.bat, install GWX, enable all necessary mods via jsgme and as the last mod Suplement to V16A3. Is it correct order or better to enable res fix after all mods and hardcoded fix?

[h.sie]

@jaxa: I think it's the correct order, but I cannot say for sure.

[U-SERB]

I read that after depth charge attack, uboats have about 15 minutes good chances to run away during the deaf zone when do not working neither asdic or hydrophone...

When I play GWX+realism mods, I think that is not included?! Am I right? Is there any mods for that?
Escort find me fast when after attack I tried run away with full speed...

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Stiebler

There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about the use of thermal layers by U-boats.

1. Is it certain whether U-boats had equipment to measure the effect?
Oesten seems to think not, but others have stated differently, saying that U-boats contained a special gauge. In February 1945, U 978 claimed to have escaped a search by warships in shallow waters by 'exploitation of water stratifications', which implies that the crew knew where the thermal layers existed.

2. To what depths do useful thermal layers occur?
Does anyone know? (I do not.) Logically, one might guess that thermal layers caused by the effects of solar heating should occur much more often in shallow waters than at deep depths. SH3Commander uses Hemisent's data, which set the effects of the thermal layers randomly at about 200m, whch seems to be very deep.

3. Do thermal layers actually provide any kind of useful protection to a submarine?
Clearly, if thermal layers provided good protection, no deep submarine (of World War II, let us ignore modern technology) could ever be sunk by depth-charges, unless accidentally. There is no evidence of such perfect protection. The diagrams shown in the references (provided by other people above) are evidently over-simplistic and exaggerated.

There seems to be little purpose in making a thermal layers mod until such important questions can be answered.

Could I remind readers also that my 'Asdic-in shallow-waters' mod provides a partial solution to this problem already (in the Stiebler2A addon for Hsie V16A3), although my solution is dependent only on water depth and not on random factors.

Stiebler.

it is my understanding that the bathythermograph that recorded changes of temperature with depth in the form of a chart was a feature only of US submarines. Other nation's submarines were equipped with a thermometer.

The thermometer would provide the same information to someone paying close attention, but the bathythermograph made it much easier to note sudden variations relative to depth.

as for depths of the thermocline (as it is called)
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocline

it varies, but is more constant in tropical areas due to more constant atmospheric temperatures.

in temperate areas it changes with season.

In any case the thermocline in tropical waters will be a dramatic shift from about 22 degrees C to about 5 degrees C in a short distance, whereas in the north atlantic in summer it is still only going to vary from 12 degrees to 5

here's a diagram from http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/temp.html

here it shows the thermocline extending from 200m to nearly 1000!

[Hitman]

2. To what depths do useful thermal layers occur?
Does anyone know? (I do not.) Logically, one might guess that thermal layers caused by the effects of solar heating should occur much more often in shallow waters than at deep depths. SH3Commander uses Hemisent's data, which set the effects of the thermal layers randomly at about 200m, whch seems to be very deep.

3. Do thermal layers actually provide any kind of useful protection to a submarine?
Clearly, if thermal layers provided good protection, no deep submarine (of World War II, let us ignore modern technology) could ever be sunk by depth-charges, unless accidentally. There is no evidence of such perfect protection. The diagrams shown in the references (provided by other people above) are evidently over-simplistic and exaggerated.

There seems to be little purpose in making a thermal layers mod until such important questions can be answered.

Could I remind readers also that my 'Asdic-in shallow-waters' mod provides a partial solution to this problem already (in the Stiebler2A addon for Hsie V16A3), although my solution is dependent only on water depth and not on random factors.

Thermal layers are a complex thing, and our Dangerous Waters experts are the most qualified to talk about it. From my modest knowledge of the matter and of playing DW, and regarding the points highlighted, I can say that:

1) Yes, many times thermal layers tend to appear deeper, but it is not uncommon to have them at much shallower depths, 50-100 metres. As you say, it depends on a series of factors, like sun, salinity, sea bottom, etc.

2) Thermal layers if marked, do provide a good protection against passive detection (hearing) and less good against active one (ASDIC). For the ASDIC beam to fail in detecting a submerged object, you need to be far away and/or the thermal layer to be really, really strong.

[h.sie]

New version V16B1 of the hardcode fixes available.

What's new compared to good old V16A3?

• Night Vision Fix. Reduced visibility at night.
• Diesel Damages Fix. Overloading the diesels can lead to random damages.
• Torpedo Failure Fix: Models torpedo crisis and surface runners.
• Bad weather fix: It was necessary to include it into this package. No more endless fog.
• Collision Damage Fix: No more sinking escorts by ramming them.
• Battery Discharge Fix: No movement when submerged and batteries empty.
• TorpedoPistolSwitch BugFix: Now all torpedo pistols are changed in salvo mode.
• 16 parameters adjustable via hsie.ini configuration file.
• VIIF AI-Sub: Duplicate IDs removed (Thanks, SSB!).
• 16 pages PDF manual (Fixes & install description).
• BDU messages Fix: Small bug fixed (Thanks, Stiebler).
• It's now sufficient to dive 16m to allow reload of internal torpedoes during storm.

Details about the new fixes (and the old ones) as well as an installation manual can be found in the new 16 pages PDF Readme.

The following parameters are now adjustable via hsie.ini file:

• Repair Times Factor
• Reduction of visibility at night
• Torpedo failure rates for different times and pistols
• Amount of damage taken when colliding with surface ship
• Speed values above which periscopes start to vibrate / are moved down
• Windspeed values above which speed is restricted when snorkelling.
• Max. number of consecutive weather periods with storm/fog.
• Minimum depth required to allow reload of internal torpedoes during storm.

Direct link to Patch-Kit:
http://www.mediafire.com/?27tcm2yg29gsqqc

Direct link to Readme.pdf only:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jl18d352j54g1ie

h.sie

[LGN1]

Great work, H.Sie

[Sepp von Ch.]

You done a lot of work h.sie! Thank you VERY much!

[Rhodes]

Nice!

[fitzcarraldo]

Many thanks, H.sie!

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Rubini]

Awesome mate! Much better than expectations!!
I´m trying SH5 a bit...it´s cool at the actual mod stage...but nothing like modded Sh3 stability, UI simplicity and balance between realism/playability!

Thanks very much!

[Obltn Strand]

Nice.

[jaxa]

I've just started new mission
Fantastic work h.sie You should edit first page for new info.

Rubini, old friend, give up SH5, SH3/GWX with hardcode fixes never been better as now and there is no better u-boot sim.