US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Catfish]

^ you have your opinion, and others have others.
Regarding this "free world" i thought it was obvious i was being sarcastic.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Or punish those who let illegal migrants work for them, to spare taxes, and not hiring US citizens for those jobs (as if the latter were ever keen on those special jobs).

c'mon NOW! HOMBRE IF I FIRE MY ILLEGAL HOUSEKEEPER, GARDENER, AND ARBORIST, MY WIFE WILL KILL ME. MOREOVER THE CHEROKEE BRANCH OF THE FAMILY HOLD THAT ALL BLACK AND WHITE AMERICANS ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SO ITS WHERE U DRAW THE LINE; NOT WHICH BASTARD PASSES A LAW IN WASHINGTON....PLUS THE NAPA VALLEY DEPERATELY NEEDS GRAPEVINE WORKERS AN WAIT-PERSONS IN ITS FAMED RESTAURANTS

‘What kind of life is this here?’” <Bucio says. During the fall — harvest time, a vineyard worker’s busiest season — her days felt like an endless reel of waking up at 3:30 a.m., commuting to Napa in traffic, toiling for 12 hours in the vineyards and returning home just in time for four hours of sleep, to do it all over again. The heat, the exhaustion, the pressure of faster, faster, faster....On one hand, these women are the lucky ones: Vineyard work offers higher wages, more autonomy and more job security than many other employment options available to them in California — and certainly more than in rural Mexico, where many women, like Bucio, say they couldn’t find jobs at all. Here, as the men who traditionally worked in vineyards have left for jobs in restaurants, construction or cannabis fields,

women are in high demand in the wine industry.
Yet life for these women, virtually all from rural Mexico, is built on fragile foundations....It’s a liminal existence that Bucio can’t quite come to terms with: one foot in Mexico, one foot in California, at home in neither.

HAVING HELPED HARVEST ONIONS COMMERCIALLY IN '71-'72 SUMMERS FOR MY GEN. MGR. DAD'S LARGE ONION PLANTS FROM LEASED FIELDS IN THE CENTRAL VALLEY WITH HISPANIC CREWS AND FLUENT IN SPANISH WHICH HELPED LATER IN THE 90'S AS SECURITY AT IMMIGRATION IN SAN FRANCISCO, MY VIEW IS NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S VIEW; TRUMP IS INHERENTLY WRONG, SOUNDS RASCIST AND WE NEED THESE PEOPLE TO FILL LOW LEVEL JOBS OR THOSE 'PERCEIVED AS SUCH' AS NATIVE-BORN YANKEES DON'T WANT THE WORK. WHO ARE WE GONNA GET TO CUT UP ALL THAT TYSON CHICKEN IN THE DEAD OF IOWA WINTERS??!! I EAT CHICKEN 4 TIMES A WEEK BBY! https://www.huffingtonpost.com/catherine-ruckelshaus/tyson-foods-wage-theft_b_8557862.html

Wage theft is a persistent problem that hurts workers and their families struggling to make a living, as well as law-abiding companies that don’t make it a business practice to steal. National and state-level studies paint a dire picture. A seminal 2009 study[unprotectedworkers.org] of 4,307 low-wage workers found that more than two-thirds experienced at least one pay-related violation in their previous work week, including one-fourth paid less than minimum wage, three-quarters denied overtime pay they had earned, and nearly three-fifths not receiving paystub information about their hours and pay. This theft adds up quickly: low-wage workers in just the three cities of New York, Chicago and Los Angeles lost over $56 million per week in unpaid wages.

Violations and losses are even more egregious in the meat industry[hrw.org], where Tyson is a leader...

HAVING TRUCKED STYROFOAM CONTAINERS TO CHICKEN & EGG PLANTS: A LITTLE PROPAGANDA BON APETIT!

[mapuc]

I say there's two types of illegal immigrants/refugees

Those who are accepted
and
Those who aren't

Markus

[Catfish]

@Aktung well.. i'm not Trump so i will not accuse you, or anyone

Originally Posted by mapuc

I say there's two types of illegal immigrants/refugees

Those who are accepted
and
Those who aren't

Markus

Accepted or rejected by whom? If you go back long enough in time, everyone is "illegal" where he or she lives now. Someone being "illegal" can only exist if there are "nations", with more or less artificial boundaries changing over time, segregating people from each other. So borders are generally declared by militarily stronger nations, and they then decide who is "illegal."
All this is a theoretical construct by mankind, that could be entirely different if history would have took another turn. And think of that: Can any person born and living indeed be declared as "illegal"? I mean, by any ethical standard? By whom, by what justification? Answer: By sheer power, and nothing else.

What about California, Texas, Wyoming, New Mexico - US-Mexican war anyone ? "Cultural integration" by US president Polk? General Ulysses S. Grant called the Mexican War "one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation".
"On February 2, 1848, Mexico ceded 55 percent of its territory, including what is now Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas, and parts of Colorado, Nevada and Utah after the war, in exchange for fifteen million dollars in war compensation. After the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, Mexicans living in the new United States territory had to adapt to becoming Americans. Many Mexicans who lived in the territory lost to the United States decided to stay and become American citizens. Integration proved difficult. The U.S. government refused to accept land claims based on tradition or limited documentation, and many Mexicans lost their holdings."
https://www.history.com/topics/mexic...n-american-war

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ you have your opinion, and others have others.
Regarding this "free world" i thought it was obvious i was being sarcastic.

I dont care for others having opinions. Whether they can rationally found them so that I can see reason in them - thats what decides for me what opinions disagreeing with me I nevertheless respect. Just claiming something out of the blue of falling into ideological clichées does nothing for me. It just kills everybody's time, and especially my nerves (and often my money).

[Mr Quatro]

You've made a good point Aktungbby, but that only works for the ones you know and have pointed out. What about the ones with bales of mariuana on their backs, the rapiest, the murderers, the ones that steal and rob (and that includes their own countrymen). Plus it's not just men and women from Mexico ... also includes China, Central & South America, etc, etc ...

I say build the wall and then the numbers will go down ... Many will give up and say "What's the use"

[vienna]

MOSTLY TRUE: Visa overstays account for ‘half’ of all people in the country illegally --

https://www.politifact.com/californi...lf-all-people/


Demographics of Immigrants in the United States Illegally --

https://immigration.procon.org/view....=000845#states


Note in the above how the numbers for California have decreased by some 310,000 between 2000 and 2016; in the same period, New York State has had an increase of 165,000 and it has no border with Mexico; marauding Canucks, maybe?...

Also note Texas had a whopping 510,000 increase over the same period...

As far as CA is going, the high cost of living in CA is chasing out and keeping out larger numbers of illegals than any effect the southern barrier has been having; its just becoming too expensive to be an illegal in CA...

Added to the cost of living is the effect the rise in minimum wages in CA has had on the ability of businesses who have traditionally used illegals to now attract US citizens to work for them, cutting down of the jobs available for the illegals; if the Federal Govt. were to actually require and enforce the use of the E-Verify system and, also, to pt some real teeth in the penalties against employers who violate hiring laws, rather than the 'wrist slaps' given currently, I think you'd see a real effect on illegal immigration; if there aren't any jobs available to people, they won't bother to come...




BTW, here is a link to the report in the NPR link cited by Dowly in his reply to Mr Quatro; Some interesting facts in here...:

US Undocumented Population Continued to Fall from 2016 to 2017, and Visa Overstays Significantly Exceeded Illegal Crossings for the Seventh Consecutive Year --

http://cmsny.org/publications/essay-...and-overstays/


Here in CA, the overstays are now the largest portion of the illegal population. Remember: these are people who actually applied for and received visas to enter the US and who did so, not by furtively sneaking across the border, but by entering ports of entry (airports, harbors, etc.) in a fully legal manner. This is why a wall is not the panacea Trump, his minions, and his Trumpettes are trying to sell to a rightfully skeptical nation. Bottom line: if you really want to seriously deal with the problem, a fully comprehensive and well-planned, well-thought out solution is required, not some self-serving, costly PR campaign stunt designed to get Trump brownie points with his lemmings...









<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Thank you vienna and Dowly for corecting my mistake, but the numbers of over stayed are avaiable and the numbers of illegalls that crossed over and did not get caught yet are not known and can only be estimated ... Many illegals that get caught say they have gone home to Mexico and crossed back over again several times. A wall would've helped prevent that.

Perhaps we should discuss the value of a modern carrier task force and the ever increasing cost to our defense budget to build them ... Would that satisfy everyone?

I don't think so

[Rockstar]

Then we have others publicly proclaim themselves sanctuary states and get their hackles up when federal officials try to round up and deport those who have overstayed their welcome. Yes a thoughtful plan would be nice but I think the current state of affairs has everything to do with the future political careers of party officials than what is the best and thoughtful plan to control immigration.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Then we have others publicly proclaim themselves sanctuary states and get their hackles up when federal officials try to round up and deport those who have overstayed their welcome. Yes a thoughtful plan would be nice but I think the current state of affairs has everything to do with the future political careers of party officials than what is the best and thoughtful plan to control immigration.

I think your right, plus it looks like the left wing Democrats are drunk with power and have 2020 in their sights.

[August]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Then we have others publicly proclaim themselves sanctuary states and get their hackles up when federal officials try to round up and deport those who have overstayed their welcome.

Amazingly these officials seem not to feel any responsibility or guilt at all when an innocent citizen is murdered because of those policies.

[Buddahaid]

Apparently neither does the federal agent who failed to secure his gun which was stolen from his vehicle.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Apparently neither does the federal agent who failed to secure his gun which was stolen from his vehicle.

Don't get me started. I always thought that a crook had to actually have a gun on him for a police shooting to be justified. There has been like a million crime dramas which centered on that very question, usually involving frantic searches by a pal to find out what had become of it as the cop in question is looked at with increasing suspicion. Excuses like "I thought she had a gun" or "He made a move that made me think he was going for a gun" would never have been acceptable if the dead guy didn't actually have a gun on or near him (hence the old time cop practice of carrying "drop guns") but now apparently that's all they need to say in order to get away with executing people.

[u crank]

Trains, planes and nitwits.

It's funny, kinda sad but unfortunately true.

Under the auspices of the Green New Deal, a group of ordinary people with no special knowledge or ability believes that it can deputize itself to radically overhaul — from first principles of its own distillation — everything from the way soybeans are grown to how people get from New York to Los Angeles. That they couldn’t even figure out how to get people from Los Angeles to San Francisco while burning through $77 billion — an amount that exceeds by many billion dollars the market capitalization of BlackRock, Inc., a financial behemoth that is — take note, here — the world’s largest asset manager.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...tral-planning/

When Donald Trump says something that may be construed as less than true or somewhat ridiculous he is fact checked ad nauseam by the left wing media. When the rising Democratic Socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her supporters say something equally ridiculous...not so much. In fact they cover for her.

Ordinary market processes (in air travel, a heavily regulated industry) created the system by which anybody who wants to travel between Los Angeles and San Francisco can do so in less than two hours for the cost of a few dozen cups of coffee. The central planners failed to create an alternative even with enormous sums of money at their disposal and enormous power to command.

With the state of California and all its splendid glories as their model-train set, they couldn’t even best Alaska Airlines.

Put these po-faced generalissimos in charge of reinventing the U.S. economy from the ground up?

Hard pass.

[em2nought]

Looks like the dims are going to run their canoe aground on the rock that is their ridiculous "green new deal". Thanks so much for the gift!


Now about that money California needs to give back to the Federal government from their spectacularly failed high speed rail system. We've got a better idea where to spend it already.