Sinking for no reason

Loudspeaker · 11-01-16, 12:59 PM

I would like to call myself an experienced player having played this game for years. But now I have run into a very annoying problem, which I have never seen before. When submerged in hostile waters, I sometimes just sink and die. It has happened to me twice in a row, ending two careers the same way, and this made me suspect that a bug is causing this. Here is what happens:

During day time and having no air warning system I dive to 90 feet and keep it going there untill nightfall, where I will submerge and recharge batteries. Much to my surprise, I just sink without any warnings of any kind. The hull just takes severe damage at the 90 feet depth. It's like the boat just crushes like a piece of paper. I don't know for sure, if I was attacked, but it seems very unlikely. It happened to me in an S-boat in my previous career and just right now in a Gar-class submarine (time compression 512).

The only changes on my computer have been a damned and unwanted upgrading from Windows 7 to 10, but my mods are still the same as always:

RFB 2.0 along with RSRD.

It is a mystery to me what is happening. What is wrong?

Taucheisen · 11-01-16, 02:53 PM

Maybe you hit a mine? There are lots of them after September 1942 (Stock 1.5)

cdrsubron7 · 11-01-16, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudspeaker

I would like to call myself an experienced player having played this game for years. But now I have run into a very annoying problem, which I have never seen before. When submerged in hostile waters, I sometimes just sink and die. It has happened to me twice in a row, ending two careers the same way, and this made me suspect that a bug is causing this. Here is what happens:

During day time and having no air warning system I dive to 90 feet and keep it going there untill nightfall, where I will submerge and recharge batteries. Much to my surprise, I just sink without any warnings of any kind. The hull just takes severe damage at the 90 feet depth. It's like the boat just crushes like a piece of paper. I don't know for sure, if I was attacked, but it seems very unlikely. It happened to me in an S-boat in my previous career and just right now in a Gar-class submarine (time compression 512).

The only changes on my computer have been a damned and unwanted upgrading from Windows 7 to 10, but my mods are still the same as always:

RFB 2.0 along with RSRD.

It is a mystery to me what is happening. What is wrong?

After making the upgrade from Win 7 to 10 are you using the same install of SH4 or do a complete fresh install and start over?

propbeanie · 11-01-16, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

After making the upgrade from Win 7 to 10 are you using the same install of SH4 or do a complete fresh install and start over?

'zactly... and your "Saves" might be toast too...

torpedobait · 11-02-16, 09:58 AM

I leave the free camera available, and after one of the sudden sinking events I reloaded a save and used the camera to check the waters around me, near the southern end of Formosa Strait. I found it loaded with mines! I'm sure there are many other areas similarly mined. Ducimus got me!

Rockin Robbins · 11-02-16, 11:38 AM

There is no safety in diving during the day and surfacing at night to recharge batteries. And you will develop only 1/4 of the targets you would have developed, had you remained on the surface.

It's like the Germans' grand plan to use a snorkel to remain submerged during the day. They were blind. And they were unaware that their snorkel was a homing beacon, a most excellent radar reflector. They were not safe at all! They just never knew what killed them.

Wearing a blindfold is not the same as not being able to be seen. Submariners should learn that simple fact.

Not only that, but when you deplete your batteries you are not ready for any combat at all! On the surface your fuel consumption doubles or triples as you recharge batteries, cutting your range by the same factor and making you a less successful sub skipper. And suppose you get pinned down by action with your batteries half charged?

Now you can run half as fast, only half as far before you are forced to surface and die because you are unprepared for action in the false belief that hiding below the surface makes you safe.

The truth is that it makes it many times more dangerous for all these reasons. A submarine is a surface raider which can submerge for the shortest possible amount of time when absolutely necessary to save your fool hide and those of your crew.

Stay on the surface and live! Stay on the surface and sink four times more targets per patrol. Airplanes? That is what lookouts are for. War ain't supposed to be safe. But it IS supposed to be fought, not hidden from.

aanker · 11-02-16, 11:47 AM

The area just south of Honshu at the eastern entrance to S. Japan's 'Inland Sea' - Ku Suido - is heavily mined, and that was the location I was sunk by a mine for the first time. Submerged at sunrise to creep in, and BOOM (although there was no boom, it's that fast though, and over).

The excellent Win 10 upgrade remark by cdrsubron7 is another good possibility, as is plowing into a tiny '1 pixel' (single square) Is.
-
Edit: RR is correct about staying on the surface, however I was following early war orders to submerge during daylight hours. This protocol was soon changed.

Happy Hunting!

Rockin Robbins · 11-02-16, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

-
Edit: RR is correct about staying on the surface, however I was following early war orders to submerge during daylight hours. This protocol was soon changed.

Happy Hunting!

Ah! But the policy was changed because brave sub commanders disobeyed those orders, knowing it was better to be alive and begging forgiveness than dead and considered a hero. Of course, in the process of saving their necks they developed a lot more contacts and sank more tonnage than those who merely obeyed orders.

Lockwood was a smart enough cookie to see a good thing when it was served to him on a silver platter. But make no mistake. It was the sub commanders disobeying his orders who changed the paradygm.

Hiding in wartime is not safe. It's more dangerous than doing your job.

Patton said it best "The best way to deal with fear of losing your life is to make the enemy more afraid of losing his."

Prometheus · 11-02-16, 03:42 PM

hmm we need to bring that sub up from bottom of the sea and examine it, than we may have a clue what happened and do all what is necessary to prevent it from happening again.

Loudspeaker · 11-03-16, 01:47 PM

Thanks for all the replies. It proves to me that this forum is not only active - this game still have alot of fans. Also I am pleased to see that the most extingused RR took his time to share his knowledge with me. Sub commanders often found their own ways to do things even if command told them to do something else.

I was told that the famous German ace, Otto Kretschmer, got his nickname "silent otto" not only because he was a captain of few words, but also because he didn't often reply to the never ending messages from BdU. He had soon realized that those replies often were followed by an attack by the Allies, who ofcourse were able to position any big mouthed German sub commander.

I reason that mines were my problem, and that they were the reason for my abrupt sinkings. I will give RFB another go and report back if I notice the same thing over and over again.

Thanks for the replies - but remember... The Japs may have gotten them too. Stay alert on your next patrol

KaleunMarco · 03-31-19, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torpedobait

I leave the free camera available, and after one of the sudden sinking events I reloaded a save and used the camera to check the waters around me, near the southern end of Formosa Strait. I found it loaded with mines! I'm sure there are many other areas similarly mined. Ducimus got me!

Mines!
for the first time i actually ran into one. it blew my topside to hell.
what i wanted to discuss is why it activated at all.
i was patrolling in Area 7. Deep water. submerged to 200 feet. stalking a small convoy. all of sudden, i am taking topside damage. no injuries. periscopes and weapons damage, only. only? well, i had to break off contact and fix the damned scopes before returning to action.

after the mission was completed i fired up the Mission Editor and loaded the Jap_Mines file and there it was...Area 7 it is rife with minefields. so, i located the field that i had sailed into and found that the mines are set to activate between -20 and -35 meters. 35 meters is approximately 115 feet. ME does not indicate the type but the .MIS indicates a Type=500. unfortunately i do not have access to the type-table so i do not know what type it is.

anyway, the issue that has me perplexed is that i was at 200 feet yet i activated a mine whose deepest activation is 115 feet.either i am missing something basic or Ubisoft got me.

propbeanie · 03-31-19, 06:50 PM

... and just what do you think holds that mine at its depth? Magic fairy pixie dust? Why no, it's an anchored cable (usually), and your right-front dive plane hooked it, and pulled the mine down to your depth - "KA-BLOO-IE"...

I don't know if they simulate that, but St. Peter would be able to tell you...

torpedobait · 04-01-19, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

... and just what do you think holds that mine at its depth? Magic fairy pixie dust? Why no, it's an anchored cable (usually), and your right-front dive plane hooked it, and pulled the mine down to your depth - "KA-BLOO-IE"...

I don't know if they simulate that, but St. Peter would be able to tell you...

mikesn9 · 04-01-19, 11:42 AM

While on the subject of mines, is there anyway to watch out for them while patrolling an area?

I've been sunk a few times, Like a bomb out of nowhere.

Barkerov · 04-01-19, 06:08 PM

Not unless you view the external camera and they are underwater so it would be very tedious. There are just some areas you should stay away from, like the coast of China along the East China Sea, The entrance to the Sea of Japan and Places along the Formosa Strait. These are not ALL of the areas that are mined by the way, just the places I have had the unpleasant experience of hitting them.

The mines have to be in reasonably shallow water too since they have to be anchored to the sea floor by a cable.

11-01-16, 12:59 PM	#1
Loudspeaker Bosun Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 69 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Sinking for no reason I would like to call myself an experienced player having played this game for years. But now I have run into a very annoying problem, which I have never seen before. When submerged in hostile waters, I sometimes just sink and die. It has happened to me twice in a row, ending two careers the same way, and this made me suspect that a bug is causing this. Here is what happens: During day time and having no air warning system I dive to 90 feet and keep it going there untill nightfall, where I will submerge and recharge batteries. Much to my surprise, I just sink without any warnings of any kind. The hull just takes severe damage at the 90 feet depth. It's like the boat just crushes like a piece of paper. I don't know for sure, if I was attacked, but it seems very unlikely. It happened to me in an S-boat in my previous career and just right now in a Gar-class submarine (time compression 512). The only changes on my computer have been a damned and unwanted upgrading from Windows 7 to 10, but my mods are still the same as always: RFB 2.0 along with RSRD. It is a mystery to me what is happening. What is wrong?

11-02-16, 09:58 AM	#5
torpedobait Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,057 Downloads: 397 Uploads: 0	I leave the free camera available, and after one of the sudden sinking events I reloaded a save and used the camera to check the waters around me, near the southern end of Formosa Strait. I found it loaded with mines! I'm sure there are many other areas similarly mined. Ducimus got me! __________________ Run Silent, Run Deep, and Sink 'em All

11-02-16, 11:38 AM	#6
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	There is no safety in diving during the day and surfacing at night to recharge batteries. And you will develop only 1/4 of the targets you would have developed, had you remained on the surface. It's like the Germans' grand plan to use a snorkel to remain submerged during the day. They were blind. And they were unaware that their snorkel was a homing beacon, a most excellent radar reflector. They were not safe at all! They just never knew what killed them. Wearing a blindfold is not the same as not being able to be seen. Submariners should learn that simple fact. Not only that, but when you deplete your batteries you are not ready for any combat at all! On the surface your fuel consumption doubles or triples as you recharge batteries, cutting your range by the same factor and making you a less successful sub skipper. And suppose you get pinned down by action with your batteries half charged? Now you can run half as fast, only half as far before you are forced to surface and die because you are unprepared for action in the false belief that hiding below the surface makes you safe. The truth is that it makes it many times more dangerous for all these reasons. A submarine is a surface raider which can submerge for the shortest possible amount of time when absolutely necessary to save your fool hide and those of your crew. Stay on the surface and live! Stay on the surface and sink four times more targets per patrol. Airplanes? That is what lookouts are for. War ain't supposed to be safe. But it IS supposed to be fought, not hidden from. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

11-02-16, 11:47 AM	#7
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	The area just south of Honshu at the eastern entrance to S. Japan's 'Inland Sea' - Ku Suido - is heavily mined, and that was the location I was sunk by a mine for the first time. Submerged at sunrise to creep in, and BOOM (although there was no boom, it's that fast though, and over). The excellent Win 10 upgrade remark by cdrsubron7 is another good possibility, as is plowing into a tiny '1 pixel' (single square) Is. - Edit: RR is correct about staying on the surface, however I was following early war orders to submerge during daylight hours. This protocol was soon changed. Happy Hunting! __________________ " Bless those who serve beneath the deep, Through lonely hours their vigil keep. May peace their mission ever be, Protect each one we ask of thee. Bless those at home who wait and pray, For their return by night and day." Last edited by aanker; 11-02-16 at 11:55 AM.

11-02-16, 03:42 PM	#9
Prometheus Helmsman Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Serbia Posts: 106 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 1	hmm we need to bring that sub up from bottom of the sea and examine it, than we may have a clue what happened and do all what is necessary to prevent it from happening again. __________________ Prometheus Mod for SH3 - Hull damage made by torpedo impact. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5060

11-01-16, 02:53 PM	#2
Taucheisen Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Marinequadrat BH 4147 Posts: 10 Downloads: 299 Uploads: 0	Maybe you hit a mine? There are lots of them after September 1942 (Stock 1.5)

11-03-16, 01:47 PM	#10
Loudspeaker Bosun Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 69 Downloads: 56 Uploads: 0	Thanks for all the replies. It proves to me that this forum is not only active - this game still have alot of fans. Also I am pleased to see that the most extingused RR took his time to share his knowledge with me. Sub commanders often found their own ways to do things even if command told them to do something else. I was told that the famous German ace, Otto Kretschmer, got his nickname "silent otto" not only because he was a captain of few words, but also because he didn't often reply to the never ending messages from BdU. He had soon realized that those replies often were followed by an attack by the Allies, who ofcourse were able to position any big mouthed German sub commander. I reason that mines were my problem, and that they were the reason for my abrupt sinkings. I will give RFB another go and report back if I notice the same thing over and over again. Thanks for the replies - but remember... The Japs may have gotten them too. Stay alert on your next patrol

03-31-19, 06:50 PM	#12
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 9,747 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 2	... and just what do you think holds that mine at its depth? Magic fairy pixie dust? Why no, it's an anchored cable (usually), and your right-front dive plane hooked it, and pulled the mine down to your depth - "KA-BLOO-IE"... I don't know if they simulate that, but St. Peter would be able to tell you... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayer/s" - Jimbuna

04-01-19, 11:42 AM	#14
mikesn9 Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Sarasota Florida Posts: 390 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	While on the subject of mines, is there anyway to watch out for them while patrolling an area? I've been sunk a few times, Like a bomb out of nowhere. __________________ I spent the cold war under water.

04-01-19, 06:08 PM	#15
Barkerov Soundman Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 147 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Not unless you view the external camera and they are underwater so it would be very tedious. There are just some areas you should stay away from, like the coast of China along the East China Sea, The entrance to the Sea of Japan and Places along the Formosa Strait. These are not ALL of the areas that are mined by the way, just the places I have had the unpleasant experience of hitting them. The mines have to be in reasonably shallow water too since they have to be anchored to the sea floor by a cable.