Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Tshark

Really looking forward to your new videos. I have watched and printed out your tutorials on manual targeting and it is one of my go to references as I learn. Thank you so much for all your efforts!

Thank you Tshark! Guys like you are what keep me going on this stuff eight years after this game hit the market. The special emphasis of my techniques has been to educate the beginner who is just making the step from auto targeting to manual targeting because that is the critical point in any player's history. If he survives the change he'll play for a long time. If not he'll get bored quickly and leave for Borderlands 2 or other FPS game. I'm trying to prevent tragedy here!

So far I have three videos on deck. First, because it was promised first, will be a Stadimeter Targeting Video showing what most are calling "conventional" targeting, because it is the type described (poorly) in the SH4 manual. There are some important wrinkles in actual practice that are worth covering and bringing together in one place. This video will be accompanied by a written tutorial and flash card just like all my constant bearing attack methods.

Then I'm going to extend the Stadimeter Targeting Video with a separate video and tutorial on Divergent Spreads. This will show how to actually use the spread dial in a scientific way, helped by a nifty keen chart and some in your head mental gymnastics so you can twiddle that spread knob with panache and aplomb, not to mention confidence.

Finally, a video to accompany the above tutorial on the Dick O'Kane Blindfolded technique, where you complete your setup, position the sub and dive to 90', from which you unleash the fires of hell, shooting blindfolded! This will be extended slightly from the existing tutorial by the application of the principles in the Divergent Spread tutorial and video.

Stay tuned! I hope this will be a very interesting place. But you're the judge. If you sink ships you wouldn't have sunk before then I've accomplished something. My achievement is measured by your results. It's as simple as that.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

So some of us tweak the spread dial. But we do it seat of the pants. Sure we hit targets, and miss them. ...Then I bet ColonelSandersLite comes out with the precise, mathematically refined, version. Mine will be based on that but in my cheap, dirty, rule of thumb, figure on the fly style....

I just measure the length of the target in degrees with the periscope when I really care. Is that cheating?

A rundown of a graphical solution would be to draw the torpedo track. At target range centered on the end of the track, draw a circle representing target ship length with a radius of 100y for medium, 150y for large, or 200y for very large ships. Draw a line representing target ship course through the center of the circle. Measure the angle from the center of the circle to one of the edges (radius, not diameter!) where the course line intersects the ship length circle. Divide by the angle by 2 for maximum left/right spread in degrees. It would be a little crude with the game's tool accuracy though.

Actually, a picture is worth 1,000 words so here:


Divide the result by 2 and be very careful about the way the game rounds.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

...So far I have three videos on deck...

Really looking forward to those videos! I'm an SH4 old-timer myself, but with all the extended breaks I take from the game, it feels like the first time every time I come back (having the memory span of a goldfish doesn't help, either), so these videos really help getting me back in the saddle again (auto-targeting is SO boring!). Plus your commentary is just as hilarious and entertaining as your posts

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

I just measure the length of the target in degrees with the periscope when I really care. Is that cheating?

A rundown of a graphical solution would be to draw the torpedo track. At target range centered on the end of the track, draw a circle representing target ship length with a radius of 100y for medium, 150y for large, or 200y for very large ships. Draw a line representing target ship course through the center of the circle. Measure the angle from the center of the circle to one of the edges (radius, not diameter!) where the course line intersects the ship length circle. Divide by the angle by 2 for maximum left/right spread in degrees. It would be a little crude with the game's tool accuracy though.


Divide the result by 2 and be very careful about the way the game rounds.

The telemeter marks are supposed to be a quarter degree at high magnification, one degree at low magnification. But talk to Captain Scurvy about that one!

You're thinking like I'm thinking. I believe in two things working when the pressure is on: graphical solutions and tables. I'll show both and explain the concept of percentage spread. Actually, you're only drawing the torpedo track if we are straight shooting a zero gyro shot. Taking actual terms from the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual, 1946, (which we really should and you are especially good at that) when we are curved shooting (gyro angle over 20º) that's the pseudo torpedo track.

The real torpedo track extends straight out from the sub to a point called the reach, then curves toward the target. Does in make any difference in twiddling the spread dial? Naw! Forgeddaboudit. (it might make a difference with extreme gyro angles) But it is good conversation around the swill pot on the night watch.

[Tshark]

Using the three minute tracking method to obtain target speed I seem to consistently over estimate speed by 2 knots. This has occurred in quick missions against warships and career against merchants. Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Tshark

Using the three minute tracking method to obtain target speed I seem to consistently over estimate speed by 2 knots. This has occurred in quick missions against warships and career against merchants. Any suggestions on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

Okay, tshark, we'll do the checklist and see if you left anything off.

• Are you using Imperial measurements? The 3 minute rule works for yards, not meters. However if you were measuring the distance in meters you would get a smaller number and underestimate the speed, so that isn't happening here.
• Are you using radar to plot your positions. It is by far most accurate. Sonar is a good second bet. If you are using the stadimeter outside of 2500 yards all bets are off and your speed has to be considered a beta version--maybe an alpha version of speed. With stadimeter get that last estimate of speed as close to the target as you can.
• Using the pencil on the nav map to X the two positions, then using the compass to measure the distance? The number of hundred yards the target ran in the three minutes is the speed in knots. 900 yards would mean 9 knots.

Then there is the all-present monkey wrench. How do you know your speed measurement is 2 knots too fast? The answer to that question could lead us to other parts of your targeting procedure.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The telemeter marks are supposed to be a quarter degree at high magnification, one degree at low magnification. But talk to Captain Scurvy about that one!

Not how I measure actually, since I know those are wrong. What I do is point the periscope at the bow, then point periscope at stern and note the bearing change.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

that's the pseudo torpedo track.

The real torpedo track extends straight out from the sub to a point called the reach....

Yep, but for 95% of all purposes the pseudo track is good enough to get the information we need. If it's not, you really probably need a banjo.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The 3 minute rule works for yards, not meters.

To clarify, meters requires 3m 15s

[Tshark]

Doing a little bit of cheating here in that contacts are updated on the chart. As soon as I raise a periscope or am on the surface the visual contacts appear on my chart and I can zoom down to ship outline and watch the movement. I confirmed I was using yards. How do I know I am in error by 2 knots? Well, I replayed the "Midway" quick mission about 10 to 15 times. Each time the Kongo BB plotted out to 16kts. The first half dozen attempts had my fish passing ahead of the ship (if they didn't prematurely explode). I dialed the speed down to 14kts and my torpedo tracks are looking good. I then went out on my first career patrol and got to track a lone merchant. The merchant plotted out to 6kts. Away go the fish and again they passed ahead of target. Lucky for me the merchant was as new to this as I am and continued on course oblivious. I set up another attack and this time dialed the speed down to 4kts. BOOM plus three dud torpedoes! As it stands now I just subtract 2kts from the three minute calculation and it seems to work. Just wondering what I am doing that is throwing the calc off?

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by ColonelSandersLite

To clarify, meters requires 3m 15s

39"/36"x3 min = 3.25 min = 3 min 15 sec

Tshark, if you're using 3 minutes by the stopwatch, marking the center of the silhouette with the pencil, measuring the distance with the compass you can't be 2 knots off. Have you been installing and uninstalling lots of mods? And never apologize for setting the difficulty back to learn basic principles of the game. That's why the option exists. And don't make the mistake of confusing difficulty with realism either!

[ColonelSandersLite]

Can you record one of your torpedo attacks? That would probably be the best way for us to to figure out what you're doing wrong.

Edit: Just after posting that, I had a thought. Are you 100% sure you're not accidentally plotting at 4 minute intervals? That would just about match the results your getting.

Past that, yeah, we would probably actually have to see what you're doing to diagnose.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Tshark

How do I know I am in error by 2 knots? Well, I replayed the "Midway" quick mission about 10 to 15 times. Each time the Kongo BB plotted out to 16kts. The first half dozen attempts had my fish passing ahead of the ship (if they didn't prematurely explode). I dialed the speed down to 14kts and my torpedo tracks are looking good. I then went out on my first career patrol and got to track a lone merchant. The merchant plotted out to 6kts. Away go the fish and again they passed ahead of target.

With the stock game, or stock game physics, ships often will spot a torpedo, throw the rudder hard over, and slow down dramatically. Torps mostly miss ahead. It sounds like your speed estimates are ok to me.

[Tshark]

I got a chance to make a couple more attacks tonight included using the "Dick O'Kane" method (hard to go back to the stadimeter now) and the speed calc seemed right on. Not quite sure what the problem was earlier as I am doing everything the same. I know this is a long shot, but I wonder if my earlier audio problems were somehow contributing to this issue. All the previous attacks were done while I was still wrestling with having only half the sounds playing correctly. I didn't notice any lag on the chart movement, but now I just don't know. Thanks for taking your time to help me.

[Rockin Robbins]

Good thing tshark! If you want to see targets juke out of the way, try using the John P Cromwell technique from 45º ahead of the target during the day and with Mark 14s. You'll waste some torpedoes but it's fun to watch.

They'll always turn into the torpedo. Since you know which way they will dodge, it's easy to send a second torpedo up a path to block that maneuver. Then it's only a matter or which torpedo they get to eat.

Of course the disadvantage is that you automatically waste half your torpedoes. If you're going to shoot John P Cromwell attacks in the daytime better to use Mark 18s.

[Rockin Robbins]

Crap! It's always SOMETHING. I'm running GFO/RSRDC, which uses the conventional plotting system. Trying to make a conventional targeting video, but Murphy's Law has reared its ugly head. I found a ship to stalk and.......no position marker, no silhouette! That means that somehow either GFO or more likely RSRDC has a problem.

Now it's not that it isn't possible to do the job without the position marker, it just makes it easer on the newbie to be able to use the basic plotting scheme.

I used up half my fuel just finding this one target. And I guess this needs finding the problem and fixing anyway, so there will be a delay for the first video.