DicheBach Questions

[DicheBach]

I asked a couple questions in older threads that haven't seen any action so I'm starting a thread where I can post any simple straightforward questions I have. If anyone else wants to use it that way too, that is great; sort of a "Quick Questions/Quick Answers" thread.

1. What is the range on a hydrophone?

2. Do "thermal layers" block hydrophone detection by destroyers?

3. How the hell does one use the stadimeter? (incredibly vague how to match up the two images)

4. Using the U.S. TDC, how do I get my aft tubes to just shoot STRAIGHT out? I've managed to get it to do it a couple times, but it often seems to want to curve the damn thing around 150-degrees as if I was aiming at something in front of me.

5. Assuming IDEAL circumstances (Hard difficulty), what are the exact steps one should follow to hit a slow moving lone merchant with a torpedo (and assuming you have already intercepted him and are a few nautical miles (nm) in front of him and 1/2 to 1 nm off of his projected course?

I've got better than 'random' with #5 (have probably sank 30 to 40 merchant men but that is from firing probably 200 torpedoes! ), but I still feel like surfacing and swimming circles around them at high speed and lobbing shells at them is an even better tactic (though risky). I've now managed to sink about 6 destroyers and about 4 of those were from deck gun fire, not from torps.

. . . so many questions . . . this is just a good start. Game is truly amazing. Needs to be expanded to include all naval warfare, not just subs . . . the naval gunnery thing is like Space Invaders on crack . . .

[DicheBach]

Heh . . . just sank 3 destroyers within about 30 minutes in game time. Stalked a convoy that was reported at like 19 hours distant. Caught them, moved slightly in front and to their starboard. Realized it had 3 escorts not just 1, decided to attack on the surface and take out the escorts.

Did that, and didn't even take a scratch!

Backed off and let the (now helpless) convoy of like 15 ships resume its course. After a couple hours came back toward them then went to periscope depth (shallow water though). They detected me and started to scramble.

Fired all 8 torpedoes in a Sargo class, not one hit. Its like they need to be staying EXACTLY on course, and crawling like a granny AND within 500 yards at the time you setup the shot (otherwise the stadimeter is all but useless because the image is so hard to make out detail on).

How do you masterful skippers get one shot torpedo kills!?

I've seen YTs of guys doing this, but I suspect they had their computer opponents scripted to act passive, because in my games, they almost NEVER proceed blithely and as soon as you fire that first shot they start ducking and dodging and causing you to waste ever subsequent shot unless it is just plain lucky.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by DicheBach

Heh . . . just sank 3 destroyers within about 30 minutes in game time. Stalked a convoy that was reported at like 19 hours distant. Caught them, moved slightly in front and to their starboard. Realized it had 3 escorts not just 1, decided to attack on the surface and take out the escorts.

Did that, and didn't even take a scratch!

Backed off and let the (now helpless) convoy of like 15 ships resume its course. After a couple hours came back toward them then went to periscope depth (shallow water though). They detected me and started to scramble.

Fired all 8 torpedoes in a Sargo class, not one hit. Its like they need to be staying EXACTLY on course, and crawling like a granny AND within 500 yards at the time you setup the shot (otherwise the stadimeter is all but useless because the image is so hard to make out detail on).

How do you masterful skippers get one shot torpedo kills!?

I've seen YTs of guys doing this, but I suspect they had their computer opponents scripted to act passive, because in my games, they almost NEVER proceed blithely and as soon as you fire that first shot they start ducking and dodging and causing you to waste ever subsequent shot unless it is just plain lucky.

Here is a hint. Fire at the farthest target first; then using the distance difference between that one and the next closest, and the time it takes a torpedo to travel that distance, fire at the second farthest when the time difference expires. Using this method will get simultaneous hits on up to four targets (the most I've ever tried). They don't have a chance to dance out of your way. While a single hit may not sink any of them, it will cripple and slow them down for finishing off after you reload.

Disclosure: I do use auto-targeting (on the premise that my crew would have done the calculations for me anyway, and I hate math), but even if you do it yourself the method above will work.

[DicheBach]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Here is a hint. Fire at the farthest target first; then using the distance difference between that one and the next closest, and the time it takes a torpedo to travel that distance, fire at the second farthest when the time difference expires. Using this method will get simultaneous hits on up to four targets (the most I've ever tried). They don't have a chance to dance out of your way. While a single hit may not sink any of them, it will cripple and slow them down for finishing off after you reload.

Disclosure: I do use auto-targeting (on the premise that my crew would have done the calculations for me anyway, and I hate math), but even if you do it yourself the method above will work.

Cool! I'll try that.

I've got a bit better with actually using the stadimeter, and using the TDC. I still use the "cheat map" (I think it is called the combat map in the game).

I'd say can sink on freighter per about 3.5 torpedoes now; maybe 4.5.

I devastate those escorts though. My new tactic is to just charge a large convoy, get the escorts to come at me wheel around and take them out one by one with the 4" 50 cal. I think in my current career up to about July 1942 I must be up to 8 destroyers 1 sub chaser and 5 gun boats killed and maybe only one of those was with a torpedo.

If the navy would let me pack more ammo for that deck gun, I'd take out the whole damn Jap navy!

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by DicheBach

Cool! I'll try that.

I devastate those escorts though. My new tactic is to just charge a large convoy, get the escorts to come at me wheel around and take them out one by one with the 4" 50 cal. I think in my current career up to about July 1942 I must be up to 8 destroyers 1 sub chaser and 5 gun boats killed and maybe only one of those was with a torpedo.

If the navy would let me pack more ammo for that deck gun, I'd take out the whole damn Jap navy!

Wow! I've never tried taking them head on with a deck gun. They are usually so accurate and do so much damage that I don't take them on while on the surface unless it is that or die. I do dive and turn towards (right at) them, periscope up to give them a good reference point, wait until they are just inside 800 yards, and give them a Mark 14. They will almost always initiate a turn upon spotting the torpedo, which will catch them in the stern quarter no matter which way they go. It the first one is not a fatal blow, their turn brings them broadside - an easy kill. I'd like to not "waste" a torpedo that way, but survival comes first.

Playing with realism @ 75% (camera on and auto-targeting, with difficulty set to "Realistic").

[DicheBach]

I'm on "Hard" in career mode which I think corresponds to "High" in the game options. I think that is about 75% ball park. Only things that make it easier are : 1. map contacts are turned on. 2. external views are turned on.

I tried playing a career mode in "Very Hard" (which corresponds to those two advantages turned off) and found it was (at my level of mastery of skippering) damn near impossible. Maybe after Hard gets boring I can do Very Hard, but at this point I just don't have enough situational awareness about the geometry. I can however see that those abilities are increasing as I play it on Hard.

I was surprised at how easy I find the Destroyers to take out. As long as I can take them on one by one--or at least engage only one of them at relatively close range while the other two or three are still at some distance--they are challenging but doable. I find they are terrible gunners, but then I'm going like 18 to 21 knots and weaving 5 degrees or more to port and starboard just about every other shot. The hard part is determining the range and for that, I use the compass on the navigation map. The technique is about like this:

1. Figure out how many escorts there are while submerged or at range with the sonar.
2. Position so that only one is closer.
3. Surface and charge him at flank speed starting at about 10 to 15,000 yards or so.
4. Once he sees you, he'll charge you too.
5. Using the nav map, estimate a good point to turn. There are two ways to do this, and a combination of both tends to work.
A. approach him at about angle so that he is in the <=345 or >=15 bearing
B. Turn and move away at anywhere from a 90 to a 180 degree (90 is hard because the range tends to change too quickly). Moving away with him somewhere in the 155 to 205 bearing ball park is good.
You can set up step 5 with waypoints and just make the turn away point far enough that it will take you 30 minutes to get there, this will be the course you follow as he chases you and you blow him to smithereens.
6. Plot this "running away attack" trajectory in the nav map and with a goal to make your initial turn in the 7500 to 4500 yard range.
7. Once you are in that ballpark (depending on visibility) you are in business as far as starting to get some hits (I have actually managed hits from as far as 12,000 yards I believe but it was a very slow moving target and involved lots of map interpolation).
8. Just switch to the nav map, use the compass to get a general idea of his range, switch to the gun and set the range and start trying shots.
9. Once you get one hit on him, it is generally easy to keep landing them next 5 to 10 and generally it never takes more than 15 hits to kill one, and I have on occasion killed one with only 3 or 4 hits.
10. The trick is just to anticipate what his trajectory and velocity are, lead your shots, and change range appropriately between each shot, switching to adjust course ("weave") using the rudder control as needed.

Out of the 12 or so I've killed in this career, I believe I've only been damaged twice, maybe only once.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by DicheBach

I devastate those escorts though. My new tactic is to just charge a large convoy, get the escorts to come at me wheel around and take them out one by one with the 4" 50 cal. I think in my current career up to about July 1942 I must be up to 8 destroyers 1 sub chaser and 5 gun boats killed and maybe only one of those was with a torpedo.

If the navy would let me pack more ammo for that deck gun, I'd take out the whole damn Jap navy!

I invite you to try that with TMO or FOTRSU. The DDs will fire at you from a mile outside your range, as they did in real life. Their aim is better than yours too. I assure you, no American sub took out "the whole damn Jap navy" in the war and neither will you. You won't sink one DD.

Let's see what happens in Game Fixes Only when you give both the sub and Japanese warships Slightly Subnuclear Ordinance. Even with ultimate power the sub just doesn't stand much of a chance.

[DicheBach]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I invite you to try that with TMO or FOTRSU. The DDs will fire at you from a mile outside your range, as they did in real life. Their aim is better than yours too. I assure you, no American sub took out "the whole damn Jap navy" in the war and neither will you. You won't sink one DD.

Let's see what happens in Game Fixes Only when you give both the sub and Japanese warships Slightly Subnuclear Ordinance. Even with ultimate power the sub just doesn't stand much of a chance.

Yeah I did give that a whirl in FOTRSU, and yes they are more difficult!

However, I still have managed to sink a couple

Computer algorithms are just not as good as me

ADDIT: 20mm subnuclear flak gun!

The first one or two that I took on were disasters, but I realized I was facing a more competent computer opponent and adjusted my tactics: higher speed, more weaving, keep the rear-end in his direction, and ideally, engage in rough seas.

I cannot recall now if I've managed to sink only one or two DDs using FOTRSU with "Hard" difficulty campaign, but definitely one. That one that I can defintely recall was in a storm, probably 6 or 7 foot waves, night time, raining, windy. He only hit me a couple times and I was down to about 75% hull, but the problem with a computer opponent is: even when what they are doing is not winning, they keep doing it. Once you've baited him into chasing you, as long as you keep him lined up properly you have a decent chance. The proper response from a human controlled DD skipper facing an annoying cheeky Yank sub nutjob would be to get a good radar range. turn to a nearly right angle on his general course, train ONE gun (not all) at under range, reduce speed and start walking in the shots. Once the range is established unleash with all guns.

Instead, what the computer opponent does is: he does not fire much at long range, preferring to close the distance. He does weave a bit but not nearly enough to deter a skilled human gunner. Between getting the Watch officer to tell me the ranges (and quickly converting them to yards), using the compass on the nav map. It doesn't take too many shots to get a general range on him. Once that is accomplished it is generally no worse than a 1 shot in 3 hit to miss ratio and with that sort of punishment (even with a 3" gun) the DD just cannot survive.

I would think that the really unrealistic part of all of this was that my gunners didn't either drown or wash overboard. Not sure if those guns could be manned while the sub was being periodically about half inundated or not . . . If they used tethers/straps to stay seated then I suppose it was doable as long as the gunners were serious adrenaline junkies and had nerves of steel!

[DicheBach]

So my next question:

I guess mega mods like Ralles and FOTRSU don't allow the player to play as Japanese submariner or in other ships?

Are there mods that do allow that form of play?

Being quite new to the Silent Hunter series, I'm really impressed. I'd have to say SH 4, even just vanilla, is about as close to "perfect" as any game I've ever played. Of course no game can do everything, but the extent to which a game fulfills the limited intent it is designed for is what I mean by "perfect." SH 4 seems to do what it intends to do better than most games I've ever played. When I combine this with the facts that: (a) it manages to create seamless game play across huge expanses of time and space and (b) does a reasonable job of conveying the texture of obscure, subtle and complex historical war time dynamics, I conclude that it is in the very top 1% of games I'm aware of.

Not sure I'd call it my favorite yet, though it vies for that. It doesn't cover enough of the operational and logistical dynamics, nor are the character elements as rich as I would like for it to vie for favorite.

With all that said, I'm really surprised it took me this long to learn about this game, and I'm also surprised that Ubisoft has yet to build expansions on this engine that add additional WWII era naval and air warfare dynamics.

Long-term, I would love to be involved in developing a game that combined the best elements of the Silent Hunter series with something like War in the Pacific. There is already a precedent for this type of game design, the Battle of Britain II Wings of Victory game, in which the player can play the game at the level of a strategic commander, handling the distribution, and to some extent crewing and logistics of air groups, or play as a crewman on a specific aircraft, or both.

[propbeanie]

To check it out, in FotRSU when on the Single Mission (or is it Quick Mission??), click on the "Change Sides" button, and you could do some German Missions - if there were only some German missions to PLAY!!! - oh wiat, there is... 721_SK_UboatMissionsPatrols_FotRSU.7z - but you must test them... endlessly... They may not stay compatible as they are, but that is the plan for the future. Now, there is also some Quick Patrols in there, and the regular U-boats Career. That package is originally for Stock v1.5, and is available here at SubSim but I can't find them now... hmm... There is also one set-up for surface play http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=41, where you bring your own boat, and I've not played that... Also, coming soon to a computer near you will be the "Climb Mount Niitaka" mod from Keltos and Peabody, with some touches from a few others of us, and it will be a Japanese submarine Campaign... There are other mods by others that can take you into the Mediterranean on either side, the Atlantic on either side, and a few others that I can't remember right now... the Black Sea?... Some of those are Bonus Mods, others aren't

[DicheBach]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

To check it out, in FotRSU when on the Single Mission (or is it Quick Mission??), click on the "Change Sides" button, and you could do some German Missions - if there were only some German missions to PLAY!!! - oh wiat, there is... 721_SK_UboatMissionsPatrols_FotRSU.7z - but you must test them... endlessly... They may not stay compatible as they are, but that is the plan for the future. Now, there is also some Quick Patrols in there, and the regular U-boats Career. That package is originally for Stock v1.5, and is available here at SubSim but I can't find them now... hmm... There is also one set-up for surface play http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...?do=file&id=41, where you bring your own boat, and I've not played that... Also, coming soon to a computer near you will be the "Climb Mount Niitaka" mod from Keltos and Peabody, with some touches from a few others of us, and it will be a Japanese submarine Campaign... There are other mods by others that can take you into the Mediterranean on either side, the Atlantic on either side, and a few others that I can't remember right now... the Black Sea?... Some of those are Bonus Mods, others aren't

Cool. I have played a bit as a Monsun Gruppe skipper, but good to know there are other options as well.

Really enjoying the attention to historical detail in Ralles mod soup. My most recent patrol started on around July 29 from Brisbane. I basically just ignored the mission to go waste time north of New Guinea and headed to Iron Bottom Sound to see if the U.S. landing force arrived on Aug 8;.
Right on time!



With this in mind, and the fact Tulagi now has a replenishment port, I'm going to be getting in on a lot of the Guadalcanal knife fights

[torpedobait]

Any chance you could do away with that moving background? Very distracting and unnecessary. Thanks.

[DicheBach]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Any chance you could do away with that moving background? Very distracting and unnecessary. Thanks.

Uhh, you mean the fish in the loaf of bread?

Isn't that something the whole site is "experiencing" at the present time??


Not sure how my user account could possibly be the source of THAT!?!

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Any chance you could do away with that moving background? Very distracting and unnecessary. Thanks.

Set the background color of the forum to admiral blue ... then the spook is over.

Is an April joke by Uncle Neal...

[DicheBach]

Can anyone explain to me what this gadget is called, so I can maybe find the directions for how to use it?



Been "away" from SH4 for a long time. Refired it up last night and realized I had forgotten almost EVERYTHING I had learned about how to play with all the realism-adding mods I have and at say 85 Realism.

I cannot figure out what this thing is called nor what mod it comes from.

My mod list: