[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[propbeanie]

Remarks in orange

Originally Posted by torpedobait

As I said, I arrived at PH on 12/3/42. Left PH on 12/23/42 for Area A2 to await further orders. Returned to PH 2/21/43.
Next patrol left PH 3/13 After the March 1 date for delivery of agent to Akkeshi, Hokkaido. Patrol ended 4/9/43;
Transferred to Midway 4/9 Did you ask for the transfer, or did it do it "automatically"?
Left Midway for Area Abridge on 4/23, returning there on 5/28
Left Midway for Area 4 on 6/16/43, returning on 7/14/43 After the date for Fremantle
Transferred to Asiatic Fleet (Perth-Fremantle) on 7/15/43 Did you do that transfer, or the game?
Ran 6 successful patrols out of P-F until hitting the fatal one on 6/13/44.

Have never noticed a problem with the Lite Fog mod; sometimes the fog makes no difference. Visibility is usually down to 300-400 yards at best when fog is heavy, even with the mod. What I really like about it is the underwater visibility - maybe a cheat of sorts, but it does make it easier using the external camera to watch as escorts (and depth bombs) approach, although the tougher escorts under v071 seem to kick the cans out farther and are much harder to evade.

I will try to start the mission again without the mod and report back.

UPDATE: Removing the Lite Fog etc. mod had no effect. Game crashed As Expected - the mod is in the Save after launching the mission, same as before.

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Ran 6 successful patrols out of P-F until hitting the fatal one on 6/13/44.

Basically, the one early assignment, then five missions, as in the Fremantle's Flotilla definition, and then "Boom!", you're done... - Your transfers follow the assignment dates for those bases, so I'm expecting you to tell me that the game did the transferring...

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Remarks in orange



Basically, the one early assignment, then five missions, as in the Fremantle's Flotilla definition, and then "Boom!", you're done... - Your transfers follow the assignment dates for those bases, so I'm expecting you to tell me that the game did the transferring...

When I first arrived at Pearl (auto transfer) it was to take command of the Balao. She is what I took to deliver the Agent to Hokkaido.

I requested the transfer to Midway to save some "driving" time on subsequent patrols.

After a couple of missions out of Midway, I requested the transfer back to the Asiatic Fleet based out of Perth-Fremantle because I'd never completed a career out of the Asiatic Fleet. I didn't know there was a five mission limit there.

So, all transfers, excepting the one that gave me the new boat at Pearl Harbor, were at my request. COMSUBPAC had no issues with allowing the transfers.

[propbeanie]

OK, thanks for that. When I was getting the Balao early at Pearl during testing, it sent me to Mare Island, and would then "hold" me there until November 15th or something, and then I would be re-assigned to Pearl, which if I got back too soon, I would then be "held" a while again before my next assignment... I was just thinking out loud via PM to CapnScurvy and s7rikeback, wondering if maybe in conjunction with only having those five Balao missions, if maybe you aren't close to the Tench assignment points threshold for the game, but you're in Fremantle again (no Tench), and the game really doesn't know what to do, so it does nothing... That used to be one of the game's responses years ago before the v1.3 update with the Early Balao Bug sometimes. Other times, you'd get retired after one mission... I've been trying to research this issue in-depth now for several months, and I know as much today as I did yesterday, which is about the same as I knew in March of 2007 when I got my first copy of Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific and fell in love / hate with it inside the first week...

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

OK, thanks for that. When I was getting the Balao early at Pearl during testing, it sent me to Mare Island, and would then "hold" me there until November 15th or something, and then I would be re-assigned to Pearl, which if I got back too soon, I would then be "held" a while again before my next assignment... I was just thinking out loud via PM to CapnScurvy and s7rikeback, wondering if maybe in conjunction with only having those five Balao missions, if maybe you aren't close to the Tench assignment points threshold for the game, but you're in Fremantle again (no Tench), and the game really doesn't know what to do, so it does nothing... That used to be one of the game's responses years ago before the v1.3 update with the Early Balao Bug sometimes. Other times, you'd get retired after one mission... I've been trying to research this issue in-depth now for several months, and I know as much today as I did yesterday, which is about the same as I knew in March of 2007 when I got my first copy of Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific and fell in love / hate with it inside the first week...

So, unless I want to start a whole new career, my best option is to load a Save game from before I went back to the Asiatic Fleet if I want to continue this career. And that's what I'll do. Thanks for looking into this. I'll let you know if anything else pops up (just what you wanted to hear, right?)

[propbeanie]

Another thing you could try, if you can get into the Captain's Office, is change your onboard equipment again. I am not near my computer, so I can't look at the files and dates, but maybe something got mixed-up in there between your onboard and your crew. Make sure you are fully crewed also... Be sure your Save and mods are the same as before though...

Edit: To help us try to chase this down though, do you remember your travels through the game? I'm guessing you started in Manila December 8, 1941 in an S Boat, and followed the Flotilla to Surabaya, then Fremantle, then Brisbane? Or had you transferred yourself to Brisbane in another boat? You were upgraded in boats somewhere along the line, and was assigned the Balao in December 1942, and the game transferred you to Pearl to get it, but your Home Port stayed in Pearl after that. You transferred yourself to Midway, and then to Fremantle. Once in Fremantle, you've done five patrols, and are trying to go out for a sixth, and that's where the hang is. When you are on the map with the orders displaying as the screen scrolls and zooms a bit to show you your assigned area, is it like just off of Mindoro, barely in the Sulu Sea, or is it further South, down between Palawan and Panay? As the mission attempts to load, you're getting to about the 3/4th's mark on the "progress bar", do you see the "No mission too difficult..." at all, or do you just go to black and it hangs there? Or do you end up out at the desktop? Had you been assigned this same mission before in the Balao? Right now, I'm building a TestMission, and I'll try to get the game to assign me those two Sink missions in the Sulu Sea, and I'll let you know how that goes...

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Another thing you could try, if you can get into the Captain's Office, is change your onboard equipment again. I am not near my computer, so I can't look at the files and dates, but maybe something got mixed-up in there between your onboard and your crew. Make sure you are fully crewed also... Be sure your Save and mods are the same as before though...

Edit: To help us try to chase this down though, do you remember your travels through the game? I'm guessing you started in Manila December 8, 1941 in an S Boat, and followed the Flotilla to Surabaya, then Fremantle, then Brisbane? Or had you transferred yourself to Brisbane in another boat? You were upgraded in boats somewhere along the line, and was assigned the Balao in December 1942, and the game transferred you to Pearl to get it, but your Home Port stayed in Pearl after that. You transferred yourself to Midway, and then to Fremantle. Once in Fremantle, you've done five patrols, and are trying to go out for a sixth, and that's where the hang is. When you are on the map with the orders displaying as the screen scrolls and zooms a bit to show you your assigned area, is it like just off of Mindoro, barely in the Sulu Sea, or is it further South, down between Palawan and Panay? As the mission attempts to load, you're getting to about the 3/4th's mark on the "progress bar", do you see the "No mission too difficult..." at all, or do you just go to black and it hangs there? Or do you end up out at the desktop? Had you been assigned this same mission before in the Balao? Right now, I'm building a TestMission, and I'll try to get the game to assign me those two Sink missions in the Sulu Sea, and I'll let you know how that goes...

Not sure how I did it, but after spending a half hour on a response I managed to blow the message off! So I'll try this again:


First: I did try to change equipment. Before the first blow up I added the twin 40mm AA guns, and upgraded the stern deck gun to 5.25", then saved the game. After that one blew up, I changed them back to the original single 40mm AA guns and the 4.5" deck gun, saved that configuration, and tried it again. No joy. Oh, and all the crew slots are filled.

Second: Here are my travels through the game, as captured from the Captain's Logs:
1. Started from Cavite/Manila on 12/08/41 in Seadragon (Sargo Class);
2. Conducted two patrols from there;
3. Base changed to Surabaya in mid-patrol 2 on 12/24/41;
4. Arrived Surabaya 01/19/42;
5. On next patrol, base changed to Perth-Fremantle on 02/28/42;
6. Arrived at Perth-Fremantle on 03/05/42;
7. Received a new boat, USS Gudgeon (GAR Class) on 03/06/42;
8. During 1st patrol out of Perth-Fremantle, game transferred me to Brisbane on 05/05/42;
9. Ran 3 patrols out of Brisbane before game awarded me the Balao and transferred me to Pearl Harbor on 12/03/42;
10. After 3 patrols out of Pearl Harbor, requested and was granted a transfer to Midway on 04/09/43;
11. Ran 2 patrols out of Midway, then requested a transfer to the Asiatic Fleet on 07/15/43;
12. Ran five patrols out of Perth-Fremantle before blowing up on the sixth on 6/13/44.

Third: when I get the assignment to Area F1 on the screen with the map, the Star appears to be at the NNE end of the Sulu Sea, off Mindoro and just below the Mindoro Strait southern entrance, if that makes sense.

Fourth: I never get to the "No Mission Too Difficult" display; after hitting Start on the "select departure point" screen (I always choose "outside the harbor"), the background goes to black, the progress bar moves only 1/4 across (not the 3/4 progress you thought), and then I get the "Silent Hunter IV has stopped running" message, followed by a feeble Windows attempt to figure out why, and when I cancel that it goes direct to the desktop.

Fifth: My game settings on initial career setup is always "Realistic", except that I use Auto-Targeting, allow contacts on the map, and use the external cameras. This produces a realism of 75%, which works for me!

Sixth: I don't recall ever having this assignment before, except perhaps in the early days out of Cavite/Manila, but I can't swear to that or prove it either way.
Hope all this helps, Prop. Good luck!

[Squashman]

Originally Posted by Squashman
Hi to the FOTRS development team
I would first like to thank you all for this magnificent work - the sheer scope of the submarine, surface and air components is nothing short of outstanding.
I am particularly interested in producing missions that depict historically accurate naval actions. Now with the large range of warships available in FOTRS, this has become so much easier.
Currently I am trying to make the Naval Battles of the Guadalcanal Campaign:-
The Battle of Savo Island
The Battle of Cape Esperance
The First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal
The Second naval Battle of Guadalcanal
The Battle of Tassafaronga

The game AI actually copes quite well with the demands of the surface ship tracks as they manoeuver within the historical requirements for the tactics of the battles.
One thing, however, is currently hard to incorporate and that is the range at which Japanese torpedoes are fired.
As you are no doubt aware, it was the long range salvoes of Japanese Long Lances that was most often so devastating for the US cruisers.

Would it therefore be possible to produce a mod that could variably increase the maximum firing range of Japanese (or all) AI from its current 1,400 yds up to say 4,000 to 6,000 yds. Alternatively is there a way a player can do this themselves, by altering the files of individual AI units?
Very best wishes to all

The info is not at my fingertips, but it is discussed several (dozen??) pages back in this thread about how it was done for v0.71. You can also look at the "guns" used on the ships and as to the "why". The problem with the torps is the lack of any semblence of accuracy with them. When the torpedoes are shot, they are aiming for where the target is, ~not~ where it will be. Therefore, FotRSU has the range moved in much closer. There are all sorts of discussions on the actual "effectiveness" of the Long Lance, and from all indications, the Guadalcanal area was "special" in that regard, due to the general lack of maneuverability among the islands (one reason carriers weren't in there too often). In other areas, the "hit" percentage was quite low for the Long Lance - in fact, inflicting damage on their fellow sailors at a higher percentage than the enemy at times. While they definitely influenced the outcome of most of the major battles in the Guadalcanal area, it is extremely difficult to get the AI and the torpedoes in the game to co-operate with you. I would imagine that this could be one reason the devs seemed to have made some of the Japanese ships "stronger" than they actually were, and the USN ships weaker, so that the battle outcomes would "balance out" overall... I'll say this (again), if you can get the torpedoes to "lead" a target, like a torpedoman had actually "aimed" it and then shot it, you would be a most famous modder, known the world over...

Edit: OK, found the release notes, back before P400 ( ) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...85#post2554685

I was thinking that CapnScurvy had an excellent write-up on the torps just before that, but I haven't found it yet...

2nd Edit: OK, much further back than I thought: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...39#post2526839 post 5463 for the AI subs and torpedoes, and the further down on that page is Post 5475 with the ships. The pictures are missing, so that might be why I can't find the other one with the gun discussion, along with the change in range used... If there aren't pictures, I kinda get glassy-eyed and doze... Somewhere between those points is the post I'm thinking of (I think - therefore I am, I think)...

Thanks, I very much appreciate the reply - Sorry, I'm somewhat of a noobe, albeit an aging one and have only really got into combat sims since retiring. I have practically no modding skills apart from some mapmaking in IL2, but am always willing to try and learn something. I really enjoy mission building and hope to release the Guadalcanal series, before long.

By the way - what has been achieved already with the AI ship torpedoes is absolutely marvellous - It's fascinating to watch the salvos speeding towards their targets with the free camera - and actually the hit rate can be surprising good.
I'll try investigating and tinkering with the "guns" files and do some testing.
Thanks again

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Squashman

Thanks, I very much appreciate the reply - Sorry, I'm somewhat of a noobe, albeit an aging one and have only really got into combat sims since retiring. I have practically no modding skills apart from some mapmaking in IL2, but am always willing to try and learn something. I really enjoy mission building and hope to release the Guadalcanal series, before long.

By the way - what has been achieved already with the AI ship torpedoes is absolutely marvellous - It's fascinating to watch the salvos speeding towards their targets with the free camera - and actually the hit rate can be surprising good.
I'll try investigating and tinkering with the "guns" files and do some testing.
Thanks again

Be careful with the gun files, your more than likely to not get the torpedoes to fire at all when messing around there.

To have the AI Torpedoes fire at longer distances, you simple need to change the Data/Cfg/Sim.cfg files, [AI AA guns] "MaxFireRange=1400" to something else. The only problem with that is ANY/ALL AA guns that are working in-game will do the same. You set it to 7000 meters.....the 50 cal machine gun will detect and fire at the distance. Not a great idea for all AA type guns.

A better solution is to go into each "TorpGun" and change its designation from an "AAGun" to "Cannon". Then the Torpgun would fire as the larger Cannons do, at whatever the Data/Cfg/Sim.cfg, [AI Cannon] "MaxFireRange=" distance is set there.

The place to make the switch is in the Library/ShipParts/whichever "TorpGun" you choose and open the .sim file to the Wpn_Cannon/Obj_Turret/Type= designation. Change the designation from "AA Gun" to "Cannon" and the gun model uses the Cannon distance.

But, lets be clear here......The further away a target is from the firing gun, the less likely you'll even remotely come close to hitting what the gun aimed at!! Unlike the shells that travel at high speeds, the torpedo can't do it and reach a target that it aims at! Without the torpedo "visual" that makes some of the "full effect" of the torpedo traveling through the water, you'll miss some of the value of the torpedo. AND, without having the torpedo fire at relatively close range, you're just spraying the water with torpedoes, with little effect.

And, I wouldn't be surprised to find the torpedo couldn't reach the target at longer distances anyway without it slowing down, and/or, sinking to depths that would be ineffective. You've seen the "gravity pull" the game physics have on shell's fired at longer ranged targets? The AI_torpedoes will do the same.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

...
Third: when I get the assignment to Area F1 on the screen with the map, the Star appears to be at the NNE end of the Sulu Sea, off Mindoro and just below the Mindoro Strait southern entrance, if that makes sense.
...
Sixth: I don't recall ever having this assignment before, except perhaps in the early days out of Cavite/Manila, but I can't swear to that or prove it either way.
Hope all this helps, Prop. Good luck!

Thank you for the further details. I did manage to "step through" the files, and hadn't realized that other boats went to Brisbane besides the S Boats... might have to look into that later, since Brisbane had nothing ~but~ S Boats initially. One more little question, if you can. How much data do you have in your Save folder? If you look in the Users / UserName / Documents folder, and right-click on the Save folder (usually "SH4", unless you're using MultiSH), and choose "Properties", on the General tab, it should have a "Size:", "Size on disk:" and "Contains:" listings. Also, next time you're in the game and on the Save / Load page, that can tell you how many Saved games you have, and how big they are. Have you saved any with "Replay", and have you been saving your own files, or letting the game keep a running save? How many Saved games do you have? (remember, this is "science"... )

The mission assigned to you has been tested in a SingleMission, but SingleMissions have a slightly different "environment" than the campaign, and it could be anything in Fremantle, to anywhere all around the world. The SingleMissions load most of the Campaign files, but not all of them, specifically the US_NavalBases file, so I'm trying to look at the other files too. Also, we think we might have a different means of dealing with this Early Boat "Bug" (it's not really a bug though, just an uncontrollable game "feature" oh boy!), and hope to have some confirmation later this evening...

[Squashman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Be careful with the gun files, your more than likely to not get the torpedoes to fire at all when messing around there.

To have the AI Torpedoes fire at longer distances, you simple need to change the Data/Cfg/Sim.cfg files, [AI AA guns] "MaxFireRange=1400" to something else. The only problem with that is ANY/ALL AA guns that are working in-game will do the same. You set it to 7000 meters.....the 50 cal machine gun will detect and fire at the distance. Not a great idea for all AA type guns.

A better solution is to go into each "TorpGun" and change its designation from an "AAGun" to "Cannon". Then the Torpgun would fire as the larger Cannons do, at whatever the Data/Cfg/Sim.cfg, [AI Cannon] "MaxFireRange=" distance is set there.

The place to make the switch is in the Library/ShipParts/whichever "TorpGun" you choose and open the .sim file to the Wpn_Cannon/Obj_Turret/Type= designation. Change the designation from "AA Gun" to "Cannon" and the gun model uses the Cannon distance.

But, lets be clear here......The further away a target is from the firing gun, the less likely you'll even remotely come close to hitting what the gun aimed at!! Unlike the shells that travel at high speeds, the torpedo can't do it and reach a target that it aims at! Without the torpedo "visual" that makes some of the "full effect" of the torpedo traveling through the water, you'll miss some of the value of the torpedo. AND, without having the torpedo fire at relatively close range, you're just spraying the water with torpedoes, with little effect.

And, I wouldn't be surprised to find the torpedo couldn't reach the target at longer distances anyway without it slowing down, and/or, sinking to depths that would be ineffective. You've seen the "gravity pull" the game physics have on shell's fired at longer ranged targets? The AI_torpedoes will do the same.

Many thanks for the advice - much appreciated. I look forward to experimenting with the file values you have indicated - after backing everything up of course. Stand by for report in near future.
EDIT - What program do I open the SIM file with?
EDIT - Saw a reference to S3D when I opened SIM File with notebook but otherwise the File was unintelligible to me! Downloaded S3D and voila! Now I get it

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by Squashman

Many thanks for the advice - much appreciated. I look forward to experimenting with the file values you have indicated - after backing everything up of course. Stand by for report in near future.
EDIT - What program do I open the SIM file with?
EDIT - Saw a reference to S3D when I opened SIM File with notebook but otherwise the File was unintelligible to me! Downloaded S3D and voila! Now I get it

Good luck Squashman, looking forward to the report.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

One more little question, if you can. How much data do you have in your Save folder? If you look in the Users / UserName / Documents folder, and right-click on the Save folder (usually "SH4", unless you're using MultiSH), and choose "Properties", on the General tab, it should have a "Size:", "Size on disk:" and "Contains:" listings. Also, next time you're in the game and on the Save / Load page, that can tell you how many Saved games you have, and how big they are. Have you saved any with "Replay", and have you been saving your own files, or letting the game keep a running save? How many Saved games do you have? (remember, this is "science"... )

Ok, I have 27 Save Files; My Save methodology is like this: I will take as many as 5-10 interim saves within a patrol. At patrol's end, when I am back in the office, I update my crew as needed, add any new equipment, set the torpedo loadout I prefer, and then go back to the Office and take a Save at that point. I reload that Save to ensure it works ok, and then I DELETE ALL of the interim Saves from the patrol, from the Autosave at the beginning up to the one I just created. Thus the Save scene is always the Office immediately prior to starting a new patrol. I will also take a Save immediately after taking a new boat or a transfer to a new base. Those saves are also taken while in the office. The Rich Save Games files tend to be about 409kb each, although the folder properties itself says there is only 324kb total...I don't understand that one.

So in the game, when you look in my file of Save games eligible to Load, the names you see and can choose from are only the key events such as a boat change or transfer to new location, and the Start dates for every new patrol.

The Save Games folder properties in the SH4 Documents section shows it has 165 files in 29 folders, with a total size of 12.3Mb. Of that, I had taken 2 interim saves during my current ongoing mission out of Midway (remember, I said I was going to go back to a point immediately prior to requesting the transfer back to the Asiatic Fleet). So now I'm back in 1943 on my way to Area 4. I took an interim save once I got 60nm out of Midway for 397.8Kb, and another upon arrival in Area 4 for 1.6Mb.

Those latter two saves plus any others I take during the patrol will be deleted upon completion of the patrol. I take them to save some travel time should the game crash, as it did last night when I put on too much TC after an engagement with a Japanese convoy and its 4 very busy escorts! I must stop trying to exceed 2048 TC.

The running game, and the SH4 documents files, are stored on my C: drive, which is SSID; both fast for read/write and quality of the save.

So, all in all, while I have a large number of saves going back to the first boat (Seadragon) in Cavite/Manila, they are all small saves from the Office except for the last two above. Oh, and I have never tried the replay feature, to answer that one. Hope all this helps!

Now, I must go downstairs and await the arrival of 16#'s of flash frozen, freshly caught Halibut filets shipped overnight from Soldotna, Alaska. Yum!

[propbeanie]

Oooh... Halibut... You baking, frying or grilling?... I didn't get my invite for this fish-fest you're having...

Thanks much for the Save details. I wish we knew more about the game's Save methodology and could then advise. I used to try and move folders out of my Save folder, but there is more to it than just a set of independent folders, because I would then get crashes. If aanker pops in, maybe he can enlighten us a bit, or at least might know someone who can.

The difference between the size of a file, and the "size on disk" has to do with the sectors of a particular disk, so a 324 kb file might take up 409 kb due to the hard drive's sector size, like 64 kb versus 128, etc. One kb of data would occupy the whole 64 kb sector, if I'm remembering my computer 'science' stuff correctly...

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Oooh... Halibut... You baking, frying or grilling?... I didn't get my invite for this fish-fest you're having...

Darn, I'm sure I sent out the invites...damn email is SO unreliable! We prefer grilled or beer-batter fried. Either way it is sweet, firm, not a bit "fishy", and very satisfying. We used to go out on Cook Inlet and get our own, but age and a bad experience with an 18 hour trip in driving rain and huge waves killed the ardor. Hard to enjoy fishing when all but the Captain and you are terribly seasick - even the first mate was lashed in his bunk - and everyone had to use a seatbelt to keep from being tossed about. It's much easier to just order it direct from Alaska Seafood and get it hard frozen overnight!

As for the size of the files, what bothered me about the Rich Save folder is that its total size is reported to be less than even one of the actual Save files in the folder!

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Darn, I'm sure I sent out the invites...damn email is SO unreliable! We prefer grilled or beer-batter fried. Either way it is sweet, firm, not a bit "fishy", and very satisfying. We used to go out on Cook Inlet and get our own, but age and a bad experience with an 18 hour trip in driving rain and huge waves killed the ardor. Hard to enjoy fishing when all but the Captain and you are terribly seasick - even the first mate was lashed in his bunk - and everyone had to use a seatbelt to keep from being tossed about. It's much easier to just order it direct from Alaska Seafood and get it hard frozen overnight!

As for the size of the files, what bothered me about the Rich Save folder is that its total size is reported to be less than even one of the actual Save files in the folder!

... - Are you maybe seeing a report on just the folder contents, which might not include the sub-folders' contents?? maybe??...