[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[propbeanie]

An update (if you will) on where I am with the sound. I'm still doing research, but I'm getting closer to the Rosetta Stone. I just hope I'm not reading it upside down... The "Is Folder" designation for the listings in the Sh.sdl file does refer to a similarly named folder in the Data folder, so there are like 2dozen of them. Each of the "Is Folder" listings says that its audio is "3D" (this is important). I have found one - and only one (thus far) - *.dsd file in each of those folders. Each of those dsd files has at least a SoundPlaylist (some also have one or more SoundSource listings).

Using my troubleshooting of the audio "glitch" (to put it politely) that we 'lovingly' refer to as "The Sound", I found the "bell" sound is what we're hearing just a pinch of, about once a second. CapnScurvy is the one who pointed me at file length, or 'playtime'. "Emulate stock" he said, and I agree. However, there is another little twist in this saga, having to do with the "3D" designation in the Sh.sdl file. I found an old thread on here (can't even remember the year of posting) where someone mentioned that the "3D" files ~HAVE~ to be mono. Think about it - as you move around in the game, or turn and face a different direction in the conn, sounds seem to come from different directions, right? 3D! You get three guesses, and the first two don't count, as to which four files are two-channel "stereo" in FotRS and quite a few other mods that borrowed the same files... You got it - the "Creaks"! They're supposed to be mono, because they're "3D". So while file length played a role in "The Sound", it most likely isn't the only one, hence the "radar contact" getting things to change in the audio. I do remember getting something similar to "The Sound" while operating a Uboat a few years back. I do not recall the sound mod, but I had German voices. This explains that, since both German unterwasserboots use the same "Creak" files...

There is also a "Loop" setting that I'm wondering about. The periscope up/down sound in stock uses that. I wonder how important that is... and I still can't figure which end of the 'Priority scale is more important, the higher numbers, or the lower ones... Good night!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

An update (if you will) on where I am with the sound. I'm still doing research, but I'm getting closer to the Rosetta Stone.

And after YEARS of intense research we have definitively decoded it as......a sign in front of Ramses Fried Chicken. The holes for the neon tubing were the final key that allowed us to come to this momentous conclusion.

[CapnScurvy]

Propbeanie, looks like you're on the "hunt".....and coming up with some possible solutions. GREAT!! Figuring out why the stock game does things is the best way of figuring out how to make a modification (Any Modification!) to work as expected. Good for you.

Originally Posted by propbeanie

There is also a "Loop" setting that I'm wondering about. The periscope up/down sound in stock uses that. I wonder how important that is....

It's my opinion, the loop feature is used when the need to run a sound feature is too long for the .wav file that represents it. Take the periscope raise/lower time. It's for a certain duration. If the .wav file that represents it doesn't run long enough, the Loop feature will replay until the script for the periscope says "we're done". To make my periscope .wav file which has a distinct "clunk" when you start and end, I lengthened the middle part to match the time it takes to travel the scope up or down. I think I left the Loop feature as-is. So, the Loop feature doesn't come into effect unless the script to use the sound is longer than the .wav file.

......and I still can't figure which end of the 'Priority scale is more important, the higher numbers, or the lower ones.

I don't know either. It's like the numbers found in many of the .cfg files....without knowing what the Devs were thinking, we are just guessing.

==================

On this same topic, I ran the Museum last night. My gosh! It took 5 minutes to load!! It took quite a lot of time writing down the assets (in their order of appearance) found in just the American and Japan sides. This is important, because as you navigate the Museum and encounter a CTD, I'll want to know which asset it was that knocked me out of the game. Found one so far, I'm sure there's more. Found another that didn't cause a CTD, but it was stopped dead in the water with the flag frozen in time, even though the crew were walking about as they should?!?

What I noticed was the different levels of volume with the assets. The BB's are loud.....maybe too load. Most of the others are too low. The airplanes are really loud....again too loud I think. Just a heads up on what I've run across.

[XTBilly]

Official report on the investigation of the Combined Fleet and Imperial Japanese Merchant Marine.

1. The Conte Verde does not show up in the mission editor.

2. NKLCS Nagara, also known as Big Modern Freighter or _JP Large Composite Merchant 1.
This ship has problems causing a CTD in FOTRSU 0.5. The problem was solved by deleting it from the \Sea folder and copying the v1.3 version of it. Now it functions correctly, featuring a black hull with the Yama****a Lines on it. RR, please make note of this for a future version.

3. IJN CA Takao. This cruiser has some issues in heavy weather. It's rolling as a smaller class ship should, it started to smoke slightly after 1 minute in heavy weather. After 2 hours the situation was the same. Not a big problem, I think that I know how I can fix it.

Except the liner, all Rising Sun vessels are functioning correctly.

Continuing investigation of other countries ships.

Regards,
Billy.

[Haukka81]

I will continue my campaing tonight, so far i like this mod, gameplay and simulation are balanced now. Keep up good work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

And after YEARS of intense research we have definitively decoded it as......a sign in front of Ramses Fried Chicken. The holes for the neon tubing were the final key that allowed us to come to this momentous conclusion.

Actually, if I'm remembering correctly, it was the 220 that *drove* the old neon tubing sign, and not so much the holes, just the wire inside them... 'course, I could be wrong, since I did get bit by the juice, and may not be recollecting as well as I should... what's my name anyway?...

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

... Figuring out why the stock game does things is the best way of figuring out how to make a modification (Any Modification!) to work as expected ... It's my opinion, the loop feature is used when the need to run a sound feature is too long for the .wav file ... {concerning the "Loop"} It's like the numbers found in many of the .cfg files....without knowing what the Devs were thinking, we are just guessing ... {museum} What I noticed was the different levels of volume with the assets. The BB's are loud.....maybe too load. Most of the others are too low. The airplanes are really loud....again too loud I think. Just a heads up on what I've run across.

Riddle me this: several posts I've found mention how the sounds designated as "3D" MUST be mono. So why does "stock" Wolves of the Pacific, v1.5 have 2-channel "stereo" files for the "Creaks..." sounds? I think I may have dropped the stone, and it landed on my foot! (I have also found several older posts concerning the audio files shouldn't be over 12-14+ seconds long - no reason given as to why.) I'm going to re-install my original SH4 disk and see what that old old old version has... As for the "Loop", your understanding of it is the same as mine, same experience, same file, which you gave me. There are other files similar to yours that seem to work just fine that are designated "Loop".

I'm wondering if the devs used the Museum to "test" things? I want to try to run it by itself. Probably need the whole game tho... I've been looking for it in the folders, and have a couple suspects, but it'd sure be nice to see their original code. Fully commented and documented, of course... Needless to say, there are a BUNCH of dsd files for those ships & planes to go through and check. It does not appear that the ships' dsd files have any obvious way to control their respective sound levels. There is a "lodDistance" (Level Of Detail??) that might have a bearing. This is another reason I want to spreadsheet these files... They all seem to share the "Ship.NBB_KGeorgeVxx..." files, from BB to DE, which simplifies things for the programmer, but complicates things for the modder...

Originally Posted by XTBilly

... Except the liner, all Rising Sun vessels are functioning correctly ...

Have you had a chance to attempt to torpedo most of them? I'm thinking specifically of the Furutaka cruisers, in that they were sitting at about 7+ foot of draft, not the 17+ they should be. In v0.4 Alpha, the ship appeared to sit fine in the water, animations seemed fine, but when you targeted them (using auto targeting), the cross-hair had to be almost at deck level instead of water level, for the targeting arrow to point down. If you shot an impact torp set to 10 foot (no duds, etc.), the torp ran below them. I haven't tried that since the v0.5 Alpha release...

I'm crawling back into my sound hole now. When I come back out, my eyes will look like a mole's, and my ears will be like a bats... Ugly on top of ugly... |;^) - well, maybe I'll sink something first... not MY boat though...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

It does not appear that the ships' dsd files have any obvious way to control their respective sound levels. There is a "lodDistance" (Level Of Detail??) that might have a bearing.

I've not looked for you guys, I don't want to step on any ones toes. So, I'm happy to keep out of it myself. The .wav files that FOTRS put together (I'm assuming their modded files.....or why would they have them in their Sound folder), may have had their actual volume cranked up when the .wav file was made.

They took an original stock game .wav file (or found a completely new one floating around on the internet) and tweaked it a little; changed the length; or changed the pitch of the sound to make it different. Then didn't check to see what the volume setting was on their work, and "saved" the thing. If the .wav file is louder in db than the stock game counterpart......there's the trouble. Least that's my opinion without having anything to back up my claim.

I still don't understand why the FOTRS Sound folder contains a backup Sh.sdl.bak folder.....it's been forgotten and left behind. It needs to be removed from the mod. No need for it to take up space and, there is another folder we should get rid of......I'll get to later.

Originally Posted by XTBilly

1. The Conte Verde does not show up in the mission editor.

2. NKLCS Nagara, also known as Big Modern Freighter or _JP Large Composite Merchant 1.
This ship has problems causing a CTD in FOTRSU 0.5. The problem was solved by deleting it from the \Sea folder and copying the v1.3 version of it. Now it functions correctly, featuring a black hull with the Yama****a Lines on it. RR, please make note of this for a future version.

The Conte Verde has to be listed in both the German and British Roster/Their countries folder/Sea folder with a .cfg file. The parameters in this .cfg file need to match what's in the ships Data/Sea/NPL_ConteVerde folder under its .cfg file. They don't. For some reason someone made these two entries into UnitType=103 (Troop Transports) instead of what the main .cfg file has as UnitType=109 (Rare Troop Transport). Changing the UnitType= figure to match will have them work as intended now.

The Nagara .dat file has some weird stuff in it.......yes, going back to the v1.3 Nagara is what needs to be done. All files will need to be changed, not just the .dat file. A quick copy/paste of the entire Sea/NKLCS_Nagara folder is all you need.

I couldn't help to notice the first ship the Museum opens to.....the American New Jersey, there's no main guns:




The Montana is the same way.

After doing some checking and rechecking, the issue is in the ships .eqp file for the three main guns. They list a gun called "16in_Iowa_turret_USbl". But, there's no such gun in the games arsenal. I did find one called "16in_Iowa_turret_US".....and that's what I changed the .eqp file to. Got the guns now.

What I mentioned earlier about a useless folder being left behing. Look in the Sea folder and notice the NPL_Hap has an extra folder inside. It's the same files as what's directly in the first NPL_Hap folder.....except it has some duplicate .tga files eating up space. Take out the second Hap folder and you're good to go.

[cdrsubron7]

Hey, guys. Nice to be back home. If I can be of help to anyone, please let me know. I still have two days left on my vacation so I'll have time to test things.

I've been playing with the ME tonight and came up with a new single mission called Indian Ocean Foray. I've uploaded the mission to our super secret storage area. If you would like to give it a try, feel free,

Here's a few screenies I took.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Actually, if I'm remembering correctly, it was the 220 that *drove* the old neon tubing sign, and not so much the holes, just the wire inside them... 'course, I could be wrong, since I did get bit by the juice, and may not be recollecting as well as I should... what's my name anyway?...

Riddle me this: several posts I've found mention how the sounds designated as "3D" MUST be mono. So why does "stock" Wolves of the Pacific, v1.5 have 2-channel "stereo" files for the "Creaks..." sounds? I think I may have dropped the stone, and it landed on my foot! (I have also found several older posts concerning the audio files shouldn't be over 12-14+ seconds long - no reason given as to why.) I'm going to re-install my original SH4 disk and see what that old old old version has... As for the "Loop", your understanding of it is the same as mine, same experience, same file, which you gave me. There are other files similar to yours that seem to work just fine that are designated "Loop".

I'm wondering if the devs used the Museum to "test" things? I want to try to run it by itself. Probably need the whole game tho... I've been looking for it in the folders, and have a couple suspects, but it'd sure be nice to see their original code. Fully commented and documented, of course... Needless to say, there are a BUNCH of dsd files for those ships & planes to go through and check. It does not appear that the ships' dsd files have any obvious way to control their respective sound levels. There is a "lodDistance" (Level Of Detail??) that might have a bearing. This is another reason I want to spreadsheet these files... They all seem to share the "Ship.NBB_KGeorgeVxx..." files, from BB to DE, which simplifies things for the programmer, but complicates things for the modder...

Have you had a chance to attempt to torpedo most of them? I'm thinking specifically of the Furutaka cruisers, in that they were sitting at about 7+ foot of draft, not the 17+ they should be. In v0.4 Alpha, the ship appeared to sit fine in the water, animations seemed fine, but when you targeted them (using auto targeting), the cross-hair had to be almost at deck level instead of water level, for the targeting arrow to point down. If you shot an impact torp set to 10 foot (no duds, etc.), the torp ran below them. I haven't tried that since the v0.5 Alpha release...

I'm crawling back into my sound hole now. When I come back out, my eyes will look like a mole's, and my ears will be like a bats... Ugly on top of ugly... |;^) - well, maybe I'll sink something first... not MY boat though...

Propbeanie, I always read your reports about the sound section. Also your linked threads. I follow your efforts with great interest because I believe the sound is very important to immersion. Too bad that I'm not in the position to help as I want. I did a little research myself before you take the sound section on your shoulders, trying to get rid of "The Sound". In general terms the main rules to do a sound mod are three.

1. The sounds must not be longer than 13-14 seconds.
2. Mono sounds cause less problems than stereo ones.
3. Looping is your friend.

A "correct" loop will use the sound without the user understanding where it starts and where it ends. The stock periscope & internal ambient for example. On FOTRS Ultimate, "The Sound" made the game unplayable for me. After your fixes I've still not heard it. This proves that you're the correct "Soundman". "Defeating" the SOUND was a great achievement. Two hands up from me. Keep up the good work!

I've found out that the easiest way to determine if a ship is correct or has problems is to just look at it. If it's not moving with the waves and it's flag is stationary, it will immediately cause a CTD after a hit. Saw this several times after the first (failed) attempts trying to import v2.0 ships.

The ship damage model requires of me to sink every single ship many times in order to make it "comply" to my rules. This will be done. The ships will not have problems when I'll finish working with them. But this can take some time.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

Hey, guys. Nice to be back home. If I can be of help to anyone, please let me know. I still have two days left on my vacation so I'll have time to test things.

I've been playing with the ME tonight and came up with a new single mission called Indian Ocean Foray. I've uploaded the mission to our super secret storage area. If you would like to give it a try, feel free,

Here's a few screenies I took.

Dat aiwcwaf cawwiew was havin' a baaaaaaad day.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I still don't understand why the FOTRS Sound folder contains a backup Sh.sdl.bak folder.....it's been forgotten and left behind. It needs to be removed from the mod. No need for it to take up space and, there is another folder we should get rid of......I'll get to later.

The Conte Verde has to be listed in both the German and British Roster/Their countries folder/Sea folder with a .cfg file. The parameters in this .cfg file need to match what's in the ships Data/Sea/NPL_ConteVerde folder under its .cfg file. They don't. For some reason someone made these two entries into UnitType=103 (Troop Transports) instead of what the main .cfg file has as UnitType=109 (Rare Troop Transport). Changing the UnitType= figure to match will have them work as intended now.

The Nagara .dat file has some weird stuff in it.......yes, going back to the v1.3 Nagara is what needs to be done. All files will need to be changed, not just the .dat file. A quick copy/paste of the entire Sea/NKLCS_Nagara folder is all you need.

What I mentioned earlier about a useless folder being left behing. Look in the Sea folder and notice the NPL_Hap has an extra folder inside. It's the same files as what's directly in the first NPL_Hap folder.....except it has some duplicate .tga files eating up space. Take out the second Hap folder and you're good to go.

Captain, I did exactly what you say with the Nagara, because I remembered that it worked correctly in v1.3. I've also noticed the double folder inside the NPL_Hap. The reason that it's still there is my fear that the specific folder is used in definition of another ship, for example the NBB_AH uses the Bismarck folder in order to work. Also there is this M35Hansa.dat in the main \Sea folder. That should be removed too if it's not used.

Please, feel free to correct the Conte Verde as you suggested, the process of doing it sounds a little Greek to me.

I'm still testing the ships of v0.5. After that, I'd like to continue and finish the ship acceleration model, if your work doesn't touch the ships .SIM files.

Continuing the investigation on v0.5 ships, the Dutch Flower corvette appears black, maybe a visit to Max-Peck's Beauty Salon is required.

Russian, Red Cross, New Zealand, Holland (except Flower), India, France & Canadian ships are ok.

@CdrSubron7. Great shots! Looking forward for the real Tench "screenshots".

Billy, over & out.

[XTBilly]

This report concludes the investigation on the ships included in FOTRS Ultimate v0.5.

Problems that have been fixed or can be fixed:

1. US BBs Montana & New Jersey cause a CTD after loading a mission that contains them. The reason may be the lack of their main guns, a problem that CaptScurvy has solved.

2. The Old Liner or NPL_Horai. German & British versions of it. Trying to place them in a single mission, causes an immediate CTD in the mission editor. That's interesting, because the Japanese version of the same ship works flawlessly. That is surely something that can be fixed, in the \Roster folder may be?

3. The Dutch Flower corvette and the German Z class destroyer appear black. No other problems other than this. Surely because of a missing texture. A visit to Max-Peck's Beauty Salon is highly recommended.

4. The NKLCS Nagara was fixed by "importing" its v1.3 version.

Problems that cannot be fixed:
None.

Dear friends, FOTRS Ultimate will contain ALL the ships from ALL FOTRS versions.
That means our ship importing was very successful.

After we solve these minor issues, we can concentrate on other tasks.

A BIG Cheers to all the team!!

Billy.

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by XTBilly

This report concludes the investigation on the ships included in FOTRS Ultimate v0.5.

Problems that have been fixed or can be fixed:

1. US BBs Montana & New Jersey cause a CTD after loading a mission that contains them. The reason may be the lack of their main guns, a problem that CaptScurvy has solved.

2. The Old Liner or NPL_Horai. German & British versions of it. Trying to place them in a single mission, causes an immediate CTD in the mission editor. That's interesting, because the Japanese version of the same ship works flawlessly. That is surely something that can be fixed, in the \Roster folder may be?

3. The Dutch Flower corvette and the German Z class destroyer appear black. No other problems other than this. Surely because of a missing texture. A visit to Max-Peck's Beauty Salon is highly recommended.

4. The NKLCS Nagara was fixed by "importing" its v1.3 version.

Problems that cannot be fixed:
None.

Dear friends, FOTRS Ultimate will contain ALL the ships from ALL FOTRS versions.
That means our ship importing was very successful.

After we solve these minor issues, we can concentrate on other tasks.

A BIG Cheers to all the team!!

Billy.

Nice progress report, Billy. I'd be careful though, you're beginning to sound like the boss.

[propbeanie]

Ahoy, CapnScurvy! Concerning the Museum, and my failure to be able to get it to run in v0.5 (still working on that) - is there any place that the Museum itself "calls" for audio files? Is there a "config" file for it? (I just had a thought: does the free camera itself have an audio config?...) I'm still going through the folders, and all I can find is a *.mis file for it, and it doesn't look like that's what the mis file is for... I've been trying to do like RR, and build me a Single Mission for a "parade", and then observe each ship in turn, paying attention to their "sound" while passing. Some of the ships do not seem to have audio associated with them, but it looks like they do (in the .dat and .dsd files). I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes either, but mine might have to get stepped on in order to turn me in the correct direction here... :wink:

I'm going to call "The Sound" officially dead. The actual sound of "The Sound" was the telegraph acknowledgement bell at the end of the "Crash Dive" audio sequence. If we trim it down to size, there is no longer that extra "syllable" there for "The Sound" to grab. However, the trigger of "The Sound" is still very much out there. It may be two of the "Creaks" files that are 17 and 18 seconds long, but then again, there are other files that are long also, and some of them (especially in other sound mods) that are *much* longer. I can get "tick" sounds in a lot of them. I've also managed to get "ticks" in "stock" SH:WotP. I just can't get them consistently, so it's a bother trying to hunt their "cause" down. I also cannot get some of the audio to restore after using TC, which also happens in all versions of "stock". Some of the audio anomalies may very well be cemented in place... don't know.

Now for something *fun* (ee-yesh, right... ) - for cdsubron7 anyway. Here's some grabs from my ~fourth~ attempt at his Indian Ocean Foray:

The circle of death:


Oh, but there's more of them - too many to fit in a picture FOV...

There's two more below the camera, watching the action...

But I *had* some consolation (or so I thought):


... and a cruiser is bruised:


But pain of all pains:


They *all* got away - except me...

First time through, all I found was an airplane and 3 destroyers (probably because the airplane saw me. I quit after about 30 minutes of Silent Running - er, crawling... Second time through, I stayed on the surface, Flank speed toward the waypoint, and all I saw was an airplane and three destroyers *and* I got sunk... never fired a torpedo. Third time through, I got to see the carriers on the horizon, and got chased and sunk by three destroyers... I'm below the thermal layer, mind you, but apparently, Bungo Pete started his ASW school in 1938, and these guys are the first graduating class... No hedgehogs, no side-shooters, just roll 'em off the back, and land on top of me. Mind you, I wasn't trying to be completely quiet the whole time, just when I thought I needed to be, which was apparently necessary the whole scenario, 'cause the plane never saw me the fourth time... They just pegged me as soon as my scope pierced the surface... Now, I did have issues, and I'm wondering how much "mod soup" has to do with it, so I'm going to try another "fresh" install of my back-up folder. What I'm seeing is "pollution" from my other SH4 folders. As an example, when I started up my "stock" SH4 v1.5, I got the FotRS sound track on the menu. When I first made "radar contact" with the CAP of the Jap Tafee, it showed up on the map. However, a few minutes later when it flew off screen, I did not get a radar contact for the 2nd plane, AND horror of horrors - no visual. Only the "buzzzz" of the engine as they came in, and the bombs exploding. Do I have a poor crew? They seemed to dive pretty quick after that. 'Course, that may have been the hole the bomb left...

I cannot do the Mission Editor, get error messages and then CTD, and I cannot get the Museum to run - "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be terminated" "OK"...

[cdrsubron7]

First time through, all I found was an airplane and 3 destroyers (probably because the airplane saw me. I quit after about 30 minutes of Silent Running - er, crawling... Second time through, I stayed on the surface, Flank speed toward the waypoint, and all I saw was an airplane and three destroyers *and* I got sunk... never fired a torpedo. Third time through, I got to see the carriers on the horizon, and got chased and sunk by three destroyers... I'm below the thermal layer, mind you, but apparently, Bungo Pete started his ASW school in 1938, and these guys are the first graduating class... No hedgehogs, no side-shooters, just roll 'em off the back, and land on top of me. Mind you, I wasn't trying to be completely quiet the whole time, just when I thought I needed to be, which was apparently necessary the whole scenario, 'cause the plane never saw me the fourth time... They just pegged me as soon as my scope pierced the surface... Now, I did have issues, and I'm wondering how much "mod soup" has to do with it, so I'm going to try another "fresh" install of my back-up folder. What I'm seeing is "pollution" from my other SH4 folders. As an example, when I started up my "stock" SH4 v1.5, I got the FotRS sound track on the menu. When I first made "radar contact" with the CAP of the Jap Tafee, it showed up on the map. However, a few minutes later when it flew off screen, I did not get a radar contact for the 2nd plane, AND horror of horrors - no visual. Only the "buzzzz" of the engine as they came in, and the bombs exploding. Do I have a poor crew? They seemed to dive pretty quick after that. 'Course, that may have been the hole the bomb left...

I'm happy to hear that the aircraft were detectable via SD, if I'm reading you right, PB. I never detected the airplanes until they came at me strafing my sub. The CAP is a feature I added to the mission at the last minute, I had never used it before, glad it worked as planned. One thing I like about that mission is the fog, I believe Billy mentioned it before. It's great the way the carriers just appear out of the fog. I just finished working on a another mission called "Solomons Run". Here's a screenie from it.



On another not there still seems to be a few ships missing. Three carriers, Unyru, Zuiho, and Ruhyo. A heavy cruiser, the Aoba.

The Unyru is available in WTW, the Zuiho is in FOTRS v2.0 and the Ryuho by miner1436 doesn't seem to be available anywhere that I can find. The Aoba is available from WTW and miner1436's 11 new ship mod.