[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I've been looking at the FOTRS v1.3 Data/Library/AnimGraphs folder (the additions that FOTRS put into the game). Here's a look at the folder, pay no attention to the red circles for now:



These .dat files are for the various crewmen that are animated. What I've found is there are some large differences between the stock game and FOTRS.

Based on the idea (correct me if I'm wrong), that the stock game doesn't have the "Sound" issue that FOTRS has. Yet, as Rockin Robbins stated:

I'm beginning to see why (I'll get to that later).

The four red circled .dat files all have something in common, they all have added content that also has speech files added when compared to the stock game. Here's the WCO.dat file (he's the crewman playing the Watch Commander on the bridge), the Stock game is on the left, FOTRS v1.3 is on the right:



Quite a bit more content with animations....and more importantly, some speech files added as well.

Of the 8 FOTRS .dat files in this folder, the four circled have added speech that the others do not. It's these four .dat files that I propose you should replace with the stock game .dat files.....then try a new game (don't just replay a "saved" game point) to see if the "sound" returns. This is important!! NEVER replay a saved game point with files that have changed after the saved point was made.

As far as I'm concerned, the additions of extra animation, or speech use by these crewmen is not important when it comes to removing the "sound" issue you guys have been encountering. I couldn't care less if the guy turns around and say's "Yes Sir" when I issue an order.

========

As far as the same sound in TMO 2.0, here's the NA.dat file (he's the crewman standing at the helm wheel in the subs Command Room or Conning Tower). Notice the date when created:




Here's FOTRS v1.3:




No small coincidence that they were made on the same date, short of a few hours difference!! Ducimus seems to been working hand in hand with the FOTRS bunch....... little wonder the "sound" is the same for both mods!

Will my suggested changes back to the stock game .dat files make a difference? Don't know, but its worth a try.

Great work, as usual, Capn! Even though the problem has no gameplay consequences, it is most annoying and I don't want to have to deal with people complaining when we can figure this out. I think you're onto something and I'll get on it as soon as v.04 is up and people are running it.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Well, see if you don't have bit too much "Beachfront Ocean" sound ~inside~ your boat, while submerged.

That's a stock "issue." If you've been damaged, even if you have fixed the damage, go to the control room and look over your head behind the helm. You'll see a broken line leaking water and that's where your sound comes from.

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

But, I'm not convinced that water clarity, or something like clouds make a difference.

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

can submerge/surface (without engines) without being detected.....its when they hear the engines I'm toast. Doesn't sound to me like the environment plays a part in detection.

You are absolutely correct
I have just spend a while reading the TMO 2.5 manual (hey - it is a slow day at work) and found something really interesting and relevant to aircraft detecting submerged subs

From page 48 point 6

6.) Planes are detecting me at impossible depths! What gives?!
This mod assigns additional visual sensors to unit types. One of these sensors goes to just aircraft. This
visual sensor gives aircraft the ability to detect shallow submerged objects. However, there is a small
problem. The radius of visual detection can be adjusted, just not the depth. There is a long drawn out
explanation for the way things are set the way they are, but suffice to say, yes occasionally a plane will
make a detection at a seemingly impossible depth. Such occurrences are by my experience however,
rare. Submerged visual detection by aircraft, isnt a 100% thing. Several factors come into play such
as, what angle your sub is to the viewing plane (bows on vs broadside), state of the sea, lighting level,
fog level, etc. Every step has been made to ensure that submerged detection is as realistic as the game
engine allows, and fair to the player. Visual detection was even made to be effected by thermal layers.
So all that can be done, has been done. You may wonder why this was one at all. Simply because the
positive aspects of this particular mod far outweigh the occasional scruple. In the end this is a
MODIFCATION, a mod is really nothing more then a hack at a finished product. Its not like i have
access to the source code to effect "real" changes.

I have bolded the real interesting part
It looks as if Ducimus added more sensors to the aircraft to get the effect he wanted
Sorry Rockin Robins - looks like I have sent you on a wild goose chase. My water clarity mod will have no effect in the ability of aircraft to spot us at periscope depth.
Maybe the few times it happened to me he saw my air search radar? Or maybe the water was choppy and my conning tower broached?

Apologies everyone

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by max-peck

It looks as if Ducimus added more sensors to the aircraft to get the effect he wanted
Sorry Rockin Robins - looks like I have sent you on a wild goose chase. My water clarity mod will have no effect in the ability of aircraft to spot us at periscope depth.
Maybe the few times it happened to me he saw my air search radar? Or maybe the water was choppy and my conning tower broached?

Apologies everyone

No apologies necessary. I like the clearer water anyway. We keep your mod as a plugin in case any other players like it too. We're all about user choice, and many (maybe most of the) times that is entirely eye candy adjustments. This is a great addition!

[Rockin Robbins]

Announcement...announcement....anouncement...announcement!

FOTRS Ultimate v.04Alpha is up on the super secret file stash. Also a file called FOTRS2.0Import holds all the changes in JSGME format to change v1.3 into Ultimate. We're still investigating the importation of 2.0 ships. We're also still waiting for CapnScurvy's periscope/binocular/TBT, "the noise" investigation and the jackrabbit mod before we freeze the core mod and test it to destruction to find residual bugs.

And then there is..........THE UNFORESEEN. Like that possible museum snafu.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by max-peck

My water clarity mod will have no effect in the ability of aircraft to spot us at periscope depth.
Maybe the few times it happened to me he saw my air search radar? Or maybe the water was choppy and my conning tower broached?

Apologies everyone

No problem mate! I also love your water clarity mod.
Keep up the good work!

Cheers, Billy.

[CapnScurvy]

Yes, I like the water clarity as well!! This is the Pacific, not the North Atlantic, where the ocean usually looks like a mud puddle....all churned up!

=============

There are all kinds of ways to have either the sub (your crew) "detect" the enemy. And, for the AI to detect you. I just don't think the environment elements play much of a role outside of night/day or fog.

As I pointed out though, there does seem to be an issue with the FOTRS detection capabilities regarding visual characteristics. Either their "dumbed" down where their blind as bats, or the visual sensors aren't even in play with these specific merchants I was using in my optical tests. Either way, it would appear the visuals are far from acceptable, considering the fury I'll get when the sub opens up its engines for movement (which would indicate the AI's hydrophone capabilities are quite good). Just something else for us to look at.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

As I pointed out though, there does seem to be an issue with the FOTRS detection capabilities regarding visual characteristics. Either their "dumbed" down where their blind as bats, or the visual sensors aren't even in play with these specific merchants I was using in my optical tests. Either way, it would appear the visuals are far from acceptable, considering the fury I'll get when the sub opens up its engines for movement (which would indicate the AI's hydrophone capabilities are quite good). Just something else for us to look at.

And then there is..........THE UNFORESEEN. And as much as we want to protect Maddy's work, he wouldn't want any groaners in there and we can assume if he found 'em he would fix 'em too.

It's the very reason it's reasonable that your periscope/binocular/TBT fix goes in the core mod.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

That's a stock "issue." If you've been damaged, even if you have fixed the damage, go to the control room and look over your head behind the helm. You'll see a broken line leaking water and that's where your sound comes from.

I have experienced that, and the sound is slightly different, and I went and "looked" all over the boat, up down and sideways 'round, and no water leaks anywhere. I also had not been in "combat" or taken any damage yet - at least, according to the F10 screenie thingie, including a 100% hull. This is the sound file that plays when you're on the bridge for "look-out" duty, and the sea is rough. It just happens to keep playing the whole time, whether you're submerged or on the surface, close to the boat, and zooming out across the ocean with the free camera. Very strange. Since I substituted the dat files CapnScurvy mentioned, it's gone.

Now all I have to do is figure out which file(s) is / are the culprit(s). I've downloaded all the sound mods from SubSim here that I could find, and I'm searching through all of them for clues and potential substitutions (to come into the game from off the bench...).

Someone mentioned elsewhere about the shouting and cheering after every torpedo hit. It's so bad, that if you shoot a spread, say about 5-7 seconds apart each, the crew will still be cheering for the second hit long after the fourth has detonated. And yet, the crowd cheers on and on, until the file has played four times. I haven't done it yet, but I'm sure it'd do the same with 6 torps inside 40 seconds...We've found the "guilty" file. Now to "fix" it. Again, probably substitutions.

-headed for the main SH4 SimBox for updating to v0.4 Alpha -

...

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Announcement...announcement....anouncement...announcement!

FOTRS Ultimate v.04Alpha is up on the super secret file stash. Also a file called FOTRS2.0Import holds all the changes in JSGME format to change v1.3 into Ultimate. We're still investigating the importation of 2.0 ships. We're also still waiting for CapnScurvy's periscope/binocular/TBT, "the noise" investigation and the jackrabbit mod before we freeze the core mod and test it to destruction to find residual bugs.

And then there is..........THE UNFORESEEN. Like that possible museum snafu.

I spoke with Florida Sailor last Sunday night for a couple of reasons that I wanted to know about and FS mentioned that he is about done with the v2.0 ships. They will be in mod form first so they can be tested to make sure there are no problems, then they can be added to the core at a later date.

[max-peck]

And I fixed my museum problem



Used the large address aware exe to patch my sh4.exe to use more RAM
Looks like it was just a memory issue at my end

PS - Doesn't that paddle steamer look absolutely awesome

[cdrsubron7]

Originally Posted by max-peck

And I fixed my museum problem



Used the large address aware exe to patch my sh4.exe to use more RAM
Looks like it was just a memory issue at my end

PS - Doesn't that paddle steamer look absolutely awesome

I'd swear I'd seen this ship somewhere before.

BTW, max. Glad to hear you got your problem fixed.

[max-peck]

Originally Posted by XTBilly

Official situation report on the ship damage model.

What I've achieved so far in terms of realism and gameplay...

1. The "She's going down" message is received mere seconds before the ship actually sinks. Sometimes you'll pray to receive it sooner...

2. Ships VERY rarely sink of hit point depletion. The cargo they're carrying is a factor though, which may, or may not be decisive. The new HP system, based on tonnage and armor level, (almost) guarantees a non HP kill. Except for really small ships of course.

3. Ship crews will fight to their last breath, even in hopeless situations. They will also abandon the ship at the last moment. A destroyer for example, will continue to fire it's weapons even if almost half the ship is underwater. Something like CapnScurvy's signature.

4. More realistic use of torpedoes. Hitting a damaged ship listing fore, lets say, in the aft section, will flood the aft compartments, actually creating counter-flooding (a real WW2 tactic) and balance the ship's buoyancy, requiring more torpedoes to finish it than necessary. Hitting the same spot will further reduce HP, but HP are not so much decisive as they were, may not create the additional flooding required to sink her. A nearby compartment may do the job. Watch where you aim.

5. No more arcade "one torpedo kills" on medium/big ships. Hitting the ammo of a cruiser, let's say, will severely damage the ship, will create flooding depending of where it hit her, but may not affect speed or fighting/maneuvering ability, and the crew may contain the flooding, depending on it's severity, position, and the crew's quality.

6. More realistic use of the deck gun. Shooting a freighter at the superstructure will require 10 times the shells. Maybe more. Shoot at the waterline, concentrate on a specific point to create flooding, observe, shoot more if required. Shooting a target randomly, will exhaust your shell supply with limited results due to the new hit point system.

7. No more uncontrollable flooding. Ships had tenths, others hundreds of watertight compartments. A torpedo hit will not affect compartments far from the explosion. It will however damage nearby ones, if you're lucky. While a ship may seem to have severe listing, it may not be enough for the water to penetrate further, or the crew may contain the flooding.

8. Simulated water pressure. If a ship's undamaged compartment gets underwater by flooding, it's watertight resistance changes dramatically. It will start itself flooding and eventually be destroyed, hopefully unbalancing the ship's buoyancy even more, and spread the flooding to it's neighboring compartments, creating a chain reaction that dooms the ship. All of this depending on the degrees the ship is listing, the damage suffered and the compartments under water.

9. Arcade one torpedo, magnetic keel shot kills are no more. Torpedo depth IS important to create flooding underwater, where it hurts the most, but don't expect to break ships in two. Flooding and listing however compensate enough for the loss.. Getting the ships capsizing is another project I'm working on.

10. Each individual ship has it's own unique sinking time, depending on the ship's tonnage and damage done, even though it uses some shared compartments with other ships.

While there are some other changes, they're not tested enough to be included in the above list. While the above results are certified and working, not every single ship complies to the above. That's the problem some other great modders solved by creating unique, balanced compartments for every ship.

Unfortunately, I don't have the skills required to produce diamonds, like Werner Sobe and Observer did, but the point is that I'm achieving some of the required results with my own way. The real problem I'm facing are the shared compartments. A change done to correct a ship's behavior, may negatively affect others using the same compartments. I guess I'll find a way to overcome this. Frequent problems also stop me. My thanks to CapnScurvy for helping me getting out of a dead end I found myself in. Balancing is the key, but it requires lots & lots of work, time, coffee and smokes. Not to mention the wife's nagging for divorcing her from her laptop...

This mod is a great challenge for me, but I'll do my best to make something good, my own contribution to the community that's given so much to me all these years!

Best regards,
Billy.

Wow
I have just read all of this (I know I am a bit behind the curve)

Absolutely outstanding work XTBilly

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

I spoke with Florida Sailor last Sunday night for a couple of reasons that I wanted to know about and FS mentioned that he is about done with the v2.0 ships. They will be in mod form first so they can be tested to make sure there are no problems, then they can be added to the core at a later date.

Amazing! We're all headed the same direction and this snowball is picking up size and speed downhill to the lodge.

This will give us a chance to compare XTBilly's and Florida Sailor's ship implementations so we can cherry pick the best of the best from both!

Can't wait to see how Sailor's AI modes are coming. Those guys are a big part of what will make FOTRS Ultimate a mold-breaking, revolutionary mod. This will be the GWX of Silent Hunter 4 with so much player customization they never need to actually play the game!

Hey Billy, be sure to put that line in our ads.

[XTBilly]

Originally Posted by max-peck

Wow
I have just read all of this (I know I am a bit behind the curve)

Absolutely outstanding work XTBilly

Thanks mate!
Wait until you see it in action!

Before a few days I discovered that ships sink the arcade stock way not only by hit point exhaustion but with buoyancy exhaustion as well. Took me some time of head-smashing to understand what's going on, found a solution to overcome this but I have to start re-balancing the ships (again), and Maddy was generous enough to provide A LOT of them!

Cheers, Billy.