[REL] Multiple UIs for SH5 with TDC

[Ragtag]

Originally Posted by DavyJonesFootlocker

Is it possible to have a tracking system where the scope follows the target just like in SH4?

press X

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

seriously the x key?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by DavyJonesFootlocker

seriously the x key?

You can change the key used in the options file for this (it's called follow target). You can also access it by the officers: WEPS-->Follow Target

[Abd_von_Mumit]

New set of comments/suggestions/reports for this unbelievable mod.:


No UI mode
First, there are some differences between keyshortcuts behaviours between UI mode and no UI mode, i.e. after I hide my UI using Shift+Z, some keys do other things than they used to. Example: When in UI mode, my Y key orders fuel efficient speed, thanks to
MostFuelEfficientSpeedHotKey = [ True, MenuKeyManagerWrapper.Keys.Y, False ]
but when I hide UI (Shift+Z), Y key launches bolds instead, doesn't change speed. I believe it's a common sense that this is very undesirable behaviour.

This also affects scrips, for example TDW Surface Search script is not working if UI is hidden with Shift+Z.

I found this when I tried to command with UI hidden, for more realism/immersion. However I think right now switching off UI completely is not possible for longer periods, because of quite a few issues:

1. Changed key shortcuts behaviour (above).

2. No key shourtcut for going deeper. When I'm below 100 m depth and I order "deeper", boat actually rises instead of diving, because there's a "deep depth" defined somewhere at around 100 m (as I suppose). SH3 behaviour would be much more natural here: "deeper" always means going deeper, no matter the current depth. Thus with UI hidden there is no way to order "deeper".

3. With UI hidden all its elements dissapear, including:
- clock,
- Otto's Chalkboard,
- message box,
which makes one switch UI back in order to be able to use the above.

My suggestion for this is:
A. Make every part of UI hideable, just as depth gauge and map tools now can be hidden. This would allow to hide all unwanted parts of GUI without switching off those one needs. It would be very flexible solution suiting any needs, also it wouldn't stay in conflict with any new additions to UI. The UI elements that can't be hidden now, but IMO should be:
- speed bottom bar (plus fuel/battery... indicators),
- bottom bar compass (it can be hidden now, but only using the toggle button on speed bar),
- officer icons,
- the top right menu (camera modes button, the vertical and the horizontal bars),
- the TDC in scope mode (it can be switched off with options file, but not in game),
and also
- depth gauge and map tools should be separated, so that each one can be switched on/off individually (I often don't need depth, but I still need map tools for plotting when in NavMap mode).

Other UI related issues
1. I find the clock illegible, especially when used as stopwatch (I can never tell if five or six minutes passed already and so on). Is it possible to use the one we had in SH3 GWX? (you can see it on screenshots here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=8132).

It would be even better to have the stopwatch from SH3 mod "U-Jagd tools" (check: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147667), which was excellent and had many additional uses:



2. Speed tables cover some elements of the UI when dragged to the bottom of the screen, whereas the convoy map behaves properly here. The 2 below screenshots should be descriptive enough:



3. reaper7's "HiDef Realistic Interface" has some very useful features I miss a lot from SH3, your interface would get from excellent to terrific if you included them: Angriffscheibe aka Attack Disc and Tri-Ring Compass. I think they are too small in his mod (these tools are intended to be used for very exact measurements), but they were implemented with success in bigger versions in many SH3 mods, for example here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166320

4. In my opinion the default map tolls quality is too bad to be left as it is. In the link above (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166320) you will see MUCH better map tools that (seems to me) could be easily included - they look much better and provide much better accuracy for plotting (I'm a heavy plotter myself).


The chalkboard:
1. Could it have the "Toggle views" button all the time, not only when a mark is made on the counting view?

2. Could it display last known weather instead of current weather? It's a pain when you switch the chalkboard on when 100 under surface and it tells you current weather (also gives you a message in the message box). Unrealistic (BTW switching weather reports off when submerged would be a good idea as well ).

3. A tiny bug: When loading a save where there were counting marks on the chalkboard, the marks are not displayed (only every fifth stroke is visible, the vertical ones are not).

Other:
1. Could the sonar guy have the "Depth charges in the water!" panic scream back? ("back" when compared to SH3, not SH5 vanilla).

EDIT:
2. Could we have a button to activate Recognition manual without locking on a target? It's so frustrating... I want just to see the pictures from time to time.

[TheDarkWraith]

found MaGUI_3 and found the necessary images for the attack disk. I scaled the images up to 120% of their original size. I've added it and am looking over his dials.cfg entries and menu_1024_768.ini entries and it appears that OLC wanted the attack disk to be movable? Movable as in user is able to drag each part (course, aob, etc.) to new values? Is this correct? Or was it meant to be purely visual feedback from the existing dials in the TDC?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

found MaGUI_3 and found the necessary images for the attack disk. I scaled the images up to 120% of their original size. I've added it and am looking over his dials.cfg entries and menu_1024_768.ini entries and it appears that OLC wanted the attack disk to be movable? Movable as in user is able to drag each part (course, aob, etc.) to new values? Is this correct? Or was it meant to be purely visual feedback from the existing dials in the TDC?

Absolutely movable, though only 2 patrs/rings, the third is fixed and shows current course.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Absolutely movable, though only 2 patrs/rings, the third is fixed and shows current course.

I understand that there's two movable parts but are you, the user, supposed to be able to move them or are they controlled by a TDC dial or both?
And lastly, how does this thing work and what does it do? If I understand it's purpose I can make it/make it better.
Describe which rings are movable and which ones are not.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I understand that there's two movable parts but are you, the user, supposed to be able to move them or are they controlled by a TDC dial or both?
And lastly, how does this thing work and what does it do? If I understand it's purpose I can make it/make it better.
Describe which rings are movable and which ones are not.

Instead of devising the wheel anew I'll point you to excellent manual with examples:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=719271
I'll be happy to answer any questions though if that manual is not enough.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Instead of devising the wheel anew I'll point you to excellent manual with examples:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=719271
I'll be happy to answer any questions though if that manual is not enough.

got it. Have the menu editor open in one monitor and document explaining operation in other monitor. Love multi-monitor setups Here we go, let's make this thing!

[TheDarkWraith]

the MaGUI doesn't include enough graphics to make the attack disk. The long pointer which OLC calls attackdiscbearing is actually the attack course pointer
Mechanically, how does this thing work? If I rotate the inner dial (the gold disc - Compass rose) does the Target Disc (AOB) and Attack course pointer move with it? If I move the Target Disc (AOB) is it only the Attack course poiinter that moves with it?

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

the MaGUI doesn't include enough graphics to make the attack disk. The long pointer which OLC calls attackdiscbearing is actually the attack course pointer
Mechanically, how does this thing work? If I rotate the inner dial (the gold disc - Compass rose) does the Target Disc (AOB) and Attack course pointer move with it? If I move the Target Disc (AOB) is it only the Attack course poiinter that moves with it?

Let me know which naming scheme you use (and point me to it if it's not the manual), so that we're sure we talk about the same thing. If need be I'll launch my SH3, if it still works and can answer doubts on the fly. If you prefer, we can skype/XFire/IRC/whatever suits you

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Let me know which naming scheme you use (and point me to it if it's not the manual), so that we're sure we talk about the same thing. If need be I'll launch my SH3, if it still works and can answer doubts on the fly. If you prefer, we can skype/XFire/IRC/whatever suits you

I'm using the naming scheme from the pdf document. I'm just going to make each 'dial' or disc independent. Someone who knows how this thing works can test it and tell me if it works or not. If you read the manual, part D (or pointer D - Bearing and Lead Angle) doesn't exist in graphic. I need this graphic to complete the attack disk.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

I'm using the naming scheme from the pdf document. I'm just going to make each 'dial' or disc independent. Someone who knows how this thing works can test it and tell me if it works or not. If you read the manual, part D (or pointer D - Bearing and Lead Angle) doesn't exist in graphic. I need this graphic to complete the attack disk.

In general this works like that. The only point of choice here is:
a) leave all rings moving independently all around, thus simulating a tool that one holds in his hands, in no way connected to the submarine and its equipment,
b) fix some rings so that at least the current course of the sub is indicated on the tool.

Option b) is easier in later use, as one doesn't have to check the course and manually set it on the wheels, this option was used by all the mods I know. This can be achieved by two ways, both equally intuitive in my opinion:
A) "A. Relative Bearing" fixed so that 0 always points up, "B. Compass Rose" moving to indicate current course, or
B) "B. Compass Rose" fixed so that N always points up, "A. Relative Bearing" moving to indicate current course.
The rest should be just moving around independently. Attaching them to any sub dials would be problematic, as one often uses the wheels to calculate this and that, and this would result in TDC being constantly messed up by the wheel settings.

A Flash version of the wheel:
http://www.filefront.com/8651549/Whizz-Wheel---German/

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

In general this works like that. The only point of choice here is:
a) leave all rings moving independently all around, thus simulating a tool that one holds in his hands, in no way connected to the submarine and its equipment,
b) fix some rings so that at least the current course of the sub is indicated on the tool.

Option b) is easier in later use, as one doesn't have to check the course and manually set it on the wheels, this option was used by all the mods I know. This can be achieved by two ways, both equally intuitive in my opinion:
A) "A. Relative Bearing" fixed so that 0 always points up, "B. Compass Rose" moving to indicate current course, or
B) "B. Compass Rose" fixed so that N always points up, "A. Relative Bearing" moving to indicate current course.
The rest should be just moving around independently. Attaching them to any sub dials would be problematic, as one often uses the wheels to calculate this and that, and this would result in TDC being constantly messed up by the wheel settings.

A Flash version of the wheel:
http://www.filefront.com/8651549/Whizz-Wheel---German/

the outer ring, or Relative Bearing, will be fixed with 180 up just like the manual states. The other rings will be independent of each other as far as rotation.
I made a new graphic for the missing Bearing and Lead Angle ring.

Now there are two ways to control the rings. There are 4 rings to control - I can either assign keys to rotate them or tie them to TDC dials. I'm leaning on tieing them to TDC dials except for the Attack course pointer. I'll see if I can tie it to a dial or it might have to use a key to control it.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith

Now there are two ways to control the rings. There are 4 rings to control - I can either assign keys to rotate them or tie them to TDC dials. I'm leaning on tieing them to TDC dials except for the Attack course pointer. I'll see if I can tie it to a dial or it might have to use a key to control it.

Couldn't they be dragged & rotated instead of key rotated?

And if you intend to lock them to TDC dials, would you consider an option toggle lock/unlock Attack Disc (lock: turning things changes TDC settings, unlocked: turning changes nothing).