[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

I've got a question regarding the Deck Watch Crewmen. As my image of the Crew Management page shows, this Balao has 12 Deck Watch crewmen, 4 per shift. Does all 12 take damage from a depth charge attack, or only the 4 standing watch? Since I've been using the enemy guns to tell me when a visual "detection" occurs, I've seen where the gun crewmen take the "hits" first, then the watch, while surfaced. As I've seen, the entire Deck Watch group will eventually take wounding (losing Health points) if the sub stays surfaced. With the gun crewmen being further along in their casualties. Does depth charging do the same?

[propbeanie]

I'll try to study that this next week CapnScurvy, as I do other testing. I'll mostly be in the older boats, like S18 & 42, and the Porpoise, Sargo, etc., going out from Manila & Surabaya, if someone else wants to do others...

[yyzBegonia]

I'll be looking to see just how many empty slots I can add to the Damage Control Team group. I may be able to add all Deck Weapon's and Deck Watch Crewmen to the existing group. I'll need to make a comparison between sub classes of just how many available slots are needed for each boat, at which times in their weapon type cycle. My image is of a Balao while using the default 1024x768 screen resolution:

If memory serves in RFB they created another row "Hogan's alley" for moving the deck watch crew away... In stock TMO there's a compartment "crew berthing" for the same purpose as well.
I agree with nionios and torpedobait that the deck gun and AA gun slots, or even DC team slots should be empty by default and be filled in certain cases.
BTW, I personally think that the deck crew in current FOTRSU is a slightly too immune to enemy fire... For instance in sub school once I was *directly* hit by a bomb on my front deck and there are no casualties on my bridge at all. All deck watch crews just lost 1 or 2 percent of their HP... I still remember in RFB a direct hit from whatever gunfire or bombs would cause horrible casualties on deck.

Lately I've been spending my time going over the sensors....exclusively the "AI Visual". I've come to notice a few things. I've had success in getting an enemy to see a raised periscope during the day at 1000 yards, and have success in not being detected at that same distance at night while surfaced. Which for the first time, this game will have a surfaced night attack ability like no other mod has provided (or the stock game). I'm using the feature I added to the external camera that provides a 7x power to the view. By transporting myself onto an enemy ship, I can use the typical 7x "binocular power" to see how the sub appears at night, or at distance during the day. So far so good!

I'm a big fans of night surface attack But I'm curious about whether the variation of moon-light condition affects enemy visual detectability or not?

[propbeanie]

First of all:

in sub school once I was *directly* hit by a bomb on my front deck and there are no casualties on my bridge at all. All deck watch crews just lost 1 or 2 percent of their HP...

you will report to Admiral Lockwood immediately, if not sooner, with the JAG of your own choosing, and prepare yourself to not only lose skipper of your boat, but also what remains of your USN career in courts martial, mister... This will go straight to trial, no investigation necessary...

Secondly, from what it looks like, CapnScurvy has found and cyphered the conundrum of the CFG files not responding to logical tweaking - they ain't logical (... and Scurvy found 'em... hmmmm ) ... We are ~very~ hopeful that a night surface attack will at least be possible under more conditions than just being in the middle of a typhoon...

[nionios]

I confirm that all deck watch crew is vulnerable to depth charges.

[G Man]

Hi I've just started to play FOTRSU after years of RFB and TMO and I'm really enjoying it. A couple of points from my first patrol so far. I'm in a Tench class but only have a Gato torpedo loadout, no extra four fish. I also had number one tube fail to surface fire against a merchant. I've taken no damage so far and there's no fault showing for that tube. Finally I upgraded to a 5 inch bow deck gun but got it fitted on the stern. Did I dock the wrong way around?

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by nionios

I confirm that all deck watch crew is vulnerable to depth charges.

The primary focus of what CapnScurvy is doing is with the Deck watch crew. As he explains it, each "compartment" for the crew has a certain level of "hit points", that once exhausted, the crew begins to take "damage" (injury). The gun crews are the gun crews 24 hours a day. There are no 1st, 2nd & 3rd shifts involved with them. It's a given that they will incur injury before most anyone else in the crew. What we want to pay attention to is whether the active deck watch crew, and ~only~ the active deck watch crew get injured, or does the "damage" continue to result in the off-watch crew and then the "sleeping" crew to become injured before other parts of the boat experience crew injury? As previously mentioned, I've had torpedo room crew injured when the deck gun crew should have been, but were unscathed - that wasn't in FotRSU though...

Originally Posted by G Man

Hi I've just started to play FOTRSU after years of RFB and TMO and I'm really enjoying it. A couple of points from my first patrol so far. I'm in a Tench class but only have a Gato torpedo loadout, no extra four fish. I also had number one tube fail to surface fire against a merchant. I've taken no damage so far and there's no fault showing for that tube. Finally I upgraded to a 5 inch bow deck gun but got it fitted on the stern. Did I dock the wrong way around?

I'm supposing you started the career late, and chose the Tench boat? What date was it, and from where did you start? When upgrading the gun, click on the item, to look to see the difference between a fore and aft gun. The fore gun isn't always offered. Did you have a bow deck gun when you upgraded? As for the tube, I assume the other five shot fine on the surface? You used the "Q" key to open the doors, correct? Did you try the one after diving, and see if it shot? Did you have any hull damage, or was it still listed as 100% integrity? Do you have a "Save" that you can restore and see if it shoots now?

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

If I make the Attack Scope too dark, it will be noticeable when using it during the day....so this is about as good as it gets.

Unless you use the red light condition to put a darkening filter over the scope. It will switch on and off "instantly" with red light, but probably better than the compromise of relying on darkening the scope.

[G Man]

Yes I started late war with a Tench, Jan 45 at Pearl. The original fit was a 3inch stern gun but I had the option of a 5inch bow stern or both so I went for a 5inch bow mount and it took it on the equipment page but when I selected the deck gun station at sea I had a 5inch gun but on the stern only.
The number one tube failure to fire must have been a one off glitch I tried it again from a save and it worked fine this time. Still four fish short for a Tench though. You just can't please some people. I'm not whining, I like the mod but you did ask me to let you know about any anomalies. I know nothing about mods or what's easy or hard to fix and if I have to suck it up no problem.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Unless you use the red light condition to put a darkening filter over the scope. It will switch on and off "instantly" with red light, but probably better than the compromise of relying on darkening the scope.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "red light condition"? You mean you can use a "command" to turn on a red light effect on the scope camera view? I had no idea a red light could be activated in such a manner.......I thought the red light effect was only for the subs interiors, automatically put into effect when the game decides its night time. It would not be controllable.

Originally Posted by yyzBegonia

I'm a big fans of night surface attack But I'm curious about whether the variation of moon-light condition affects enemy visual detectability or not?

I'll be looking into that. My first thought is it does not. The game has no parameters for moon modifiers....unless its hard coded, the moon is just a visual "eye candy" object. But I'll run my tests further into the night to see......I'll compare detection with a moon overhead, and after it sets?

===============

Right now I've got a Balao with a 1024x768 Crew Management screen looking like this:



My "Safe Room" for the Watch Crew is called "Watch Crew's Lounge". It will have enough space for the entire Watch Crew three shifts. I'm thinking I may not be able to automatically have the two Off Duty shifts start in the Lounge.......I'm pretty sure not all Missions start with the #1 Duty shift, so you either start with them all in the Lounge and move over the crew that's on duty, or you have them all start in the Crew Watch position and move over the two that are off. One things for certain, you'll need to keep better eye on the Duty shifts, so you don't go without a Watch Crew giving you enemy detection.

The Gun Crews will be able to go to a safe place by using the Damage Control Team area.

I've had to move things around a bit for the 1024x768 screen to look as above, compared to the older look:



I'll be needing to see how things look with the 1920x1080 resolution. I realize what one resolution has for screen placements IS NOT how it may look for others!

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by G Man

Yes I started late war with a Tench, Jan 45 at Pearl. The original fit was a 3inch stern gun but I had the option of a 5inch bow stern or both so I went for a 5inch bow mount and it took it on the equipment page but when I selected the deck gun station at sea I had a 5inch gun but on the stern only.
The number one tube failure to fire must have been a one off glitch I tried it again from a save and it worked fine this time. Still four fish short for a Tench though. You just can't please some people. I'm not whining, I like the mod but you did ask me to let you know about any anomalies. I know nothing about mods or what's easy or hard to fix and if I have to suck it up no problem.

Well, I replicated the issue with the deck gun. I've been through a lot of the boats over the last couple of hours, and I might be missing something, but as an example, here is the USS Harder with a bow-mounted 4x50 deck gun, and two twin 40s added, crew at battlestations (we're going barge huntin'):



Only problem? It's mounted on the aft... The game crews it fine as an aft deck gun, but the listing on the equipment page does say "Bow Deck Gun". Paid good money (reknown) for it too!... We'll have to see if CapnScurvy or maybe s7rikeback can figure that one out, or point us in the correct procedure for getting a bow deck gun up front. Myself, I don't want 'em up front, but some folks do...

Does anyone actually have a bow-mounted deck gun?

The "stuck" torpedo tube I've seen in other mods, and I've always just put it to a temporary equipment failure - just so long as my SJ keeps working, I'm happy... - but the "Save", Exit, return and load Save clears a lot of things up. I'm wondering what happens with the gun?... Maybe I'll go do that real quick...


Edit, a little while later: OK, no diff. I'm into mid-43, and the <F9> shows me with a bow-mounted deck bun, but just like above, it's aft-mounted. Oh well. We'll see what CapnScurvy says. I do have something new, and makes me suspect I've contaminated my install now, and that is a "Passing thermal layer" announcement about every 2 minutes or so... I'm sitting still in Pearl Harbor at the dock... "Passing thermal layer"... ratz... what's triggering that???

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Well, I replicated the issue with the deck gun. I've been through a lot of the boats over the last couple of hours, and I might be missing something, but as an example, here is the USS Harder with a bow-mounted 4x50 deck gun, and two twin 40s added, crew at battlestations (we're going barge huntin'):



Only problem? It's mounted on the aft... The game crews it fine as an aft deck gun, but the listing on the equipment page does say "Bow Deck Gun". Paid good money (reknown) for it too!... We'll have to see if CapnScurvy or maybe s7rikeback can figure that one out, or point us in the correct procedure for getting a bow deck gun up front. Myself, I don't want 'em up front, but some folks do...

Does anyone actually have a bow-mounted deck gun?

The "stuck" torpedo tube I've seen in other mods, and I've always just put it to a temporary equipment failure - just so long as my SJ keeps working, I'm happy... - but the "Save", Exit, return and load Save clears a lot of things up. I'm wondering what happens with the gun?... Maybe I'll go do that real quick...


Edit, a little while later: OK, no diff. I'm into mid-43, and the <F9> shows me with a bow-mounted deck bun, but just like above, it's aft-mounted. Oh well. We'll see what CapnScurvy says. I do have something new, and makes me suspect I've contaminated my install now, and that is a "Passing thermal layer" announcement about every 2 minutes or so... I'm sitting still in Pearl Harbor at the dock... "Passing thermal layer"... ratz... what's triggering that???

Was this Bow Deck Gun that was bought and paid for, yet it still turns up on the Aft deck, on a Tench Class from Pearl? Or, did you find this issue on most subs you tried? The USS Harder was a Gato Class wasn't it?

I want to make sure I run my test on the same dates, same sub class, same sub home base as you guys.

=============

As far as a torpedo not firing in Ultimate, there could be a couple of reasons. The most obvious is there's no torpedo loaded in the tube. You've either expended your inventory, or you haven't given the crew the time necessary to finish loading the tube in question. By moussing over the Torpedo Panel, a text box will appear over each individual tube to tell you how much time is left on "loading" the tube.

Another point is each torpedo tube door needs to be "open" before the tube will fire. The "Q" key toggles between open/close, meaning if you accidently strike the "Q" key twice the door will close on you. The only way you know if a particular tube is open or closed is by reading the Message Text box. The Weapons Officer will report "Tube Door 3 Opening" or "Tube Door 4 Closing" (or some such text) whenever the "Q" key is struck. It's up to you to know which tube you have "active" at the time of striking the Toggle Button ("Q") for opening/closing the door. If you forget in what "state" you left a particular tube door in, just scroll back up through the Message Text box to remind yourself if its open or closed. If you have the "music" playing in the background, you won't hear the sound the tube doors make as they open/close....another way to know if the doors have been activated or not.

Remember the tube doors only stay open for a particular length of time. Seems like it's over 5 minutes, but if it's longer than this, you may find the doors have shut automatically without telling you. If its been an extended amount of time, or if you forget in what state the door may be in, just quickly "activate" the tube in question and strike the "Q" key to see what the Weapons Office will tell you. If he tells you the "Tube Door 3 is Closing", you know to strike the "Q" key again to open it.

To "Cycle" through the Bow Torpedo Tube group use the "W" key, to "Cycle" through the Stern Torpedo Tubes, use the "E" key.

[Hitman]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "red light condition"? You mean you can use a "command" to turn on a red light effect on the scope camera view? I had no idea a red light could be activated in such a manner.......I thought the red light effect was only for the subs interiors, automatically put into effect when the game decides its night time. It would not be controllable.

Sorry was a bit in a hurry and did not elaborate much.

In SH3 when the red light automatically turns on, an overlay TGA with alpha channel is applied at the scope so that you see the surroundings red. You can actually define what color you want, as the TGA is flat white with transparent parts where you don't want the overlay, as in the eyepiece. I believe it also works for SH4, only it was not enabled/added to the menu.ini. So if you create the overlay TGA with a translucent part over the eyepiece and set the color to black or grey, when the red light automatically switches on in the sub, your eyepiece would be darkened.

In my own GUI for SH3 the menu-ini entries for the overlay are these:

[G26 I6]
Name=RedLight
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x26120000
ParentID=0x26000000
Pos=0,768,1024,768
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I7]
Name=Red Mask
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x26120005
ParentID=0x26120000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Color=0x96000050 ;Red
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/H_redmask.tga
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x29

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Was this Bow Deck Gun that was bought and paid for, yet it still turns up on the Aft deck, on a Tench Class from Pearl? Or, did you find this issue on most subs you tried? The USS Harder was a Gato Class wasn't it?

I want to make sure I run my test on the same dates, same sub class, same sub home base as you guys.

=============

...

That is correct CapnScurvy, sir!

I've done Beginning of 1945, Middle of '44, Beginning of '44 and middle of '43 with the Tench, Balao and Gato boats, and thus far, they're all the same... You can "purchase" either the four or five inch gun, and the guns listed as "Bow-mounted", will show-up on the aft mount. One of the Gato boat's "Equipment" picture even shows a bow-mounted gun on the screen (the "SubmarineClasses" pix, which don't matter anyway) , but when using F12 external view, the gun is aft-mounted.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

That is correct CapnScurvy, sir!

I've done Beginning of 1945, Middle of '44, Beginning of '44 and middle of '43 with the Tench, Balao and Gato boats, and thus far, they're all the same... You can "purchase" either the four or five inch gun, and the guns listed as "Bow-mounted", will show-up on the aft mount. One of the Gato boat's "Equipment" picture even shows a bow-mounted gun on the screen (the "SubmarineClasses" pix, which don't matter anyway) , but when using F12 external view, the gun is aft-mounted.

Ok then, ALL boats are having this issue. Should be easy enough to see, might be impossible to fix. If the stock game didn't have this issue too, I'd say it was simply a loose file someplace that was put into play. But, as memory serves me, the stock game didn't even attempt to give you a choice in Deck Gun placements.......we may find there's a good reason for that!