Which overhaul mods?

[ETAIPOS]

Coming back to the SH4 after many years, and I'd like to know which mods would you suggest?

I think RSRD, but I'm not sure which of the other big mods (and maybe some small ones?)

I'm not necesairly looking to make the game more difficult, but I would like to make it more realistic.


BDW, is there a mod that adds UK subs?

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome Back To The Subsim Community > ETAIPOS
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See my signature for SH4

[Admiral Halsey]

For me the Standard is RSRDC+TMO(Trigger Maru) as a base then graphics mods to taste. However if you're just getting back in the grove I suggest the Game Fixes Only mod until you get back into the hang of things.

[Rockin Robbins]

After years of playing TMO/RSRDC I loaded up a GFO configuration without RSRDC. I was surprised how much fun GFO is and how I didn't miss RSRDC at all.

RSRDC says it is a campaign mod. But it also modifies your submarine, most of the warships, the environment, enemy AI, weather, air traffic........and lots more without any knowledge or consent of the player. If you play TMO and add RSRDC you are no longer playing TMO. All Ducimus' carefully balanced gameplay goes right out the window.

Ducimus' built-in campaign is just great and I much prefer his vision of SH4 gameplay.

Even RSRDC's campaign is a house of cards that falls on examination. He merely put the entire war in a straitjacket. If, for instance, a port sent out a convoy a week but interrupted it for a couple of weeks while the Wahoo lurked offshore, that port will send those exact convoys out, interrupting for the Wahoo, which will NEVER be there in your game. You can just sit outside the harbor and pick off scheduled convoys all war, except for the weeks Wahoo was there in real life.

That's called a scripted campaign. Seems historical but turns into a farce in practice. It assumes that if we wound time back and reran the war, every event would happen exactly the same. No, it's worse than that. It assumes that no matter what you do the Japanese would do the exact same things they did during the war. The one biggest improvement that SH3 and SH4 brought to submarine simulation was the dynamic campaign, where you can't predict encounters and they are randomly constituted. That way you can't predict what will happen in your war.

RSRDC removes the greatest improvement of Silent Hunter 4 and restores the strictly scripted concrete overshoes of Silent Hunter 2, and it's a vampire mod, sucking the soul out of any underlying supermod. NOT PROGRESS!

[max-peck]

Welcome aboard

For years my overhaul mod of choice has been TMO 2.5
It does make the game more difficult, but there is an easier AI mod available that tones down the difficulty

Of course now I am going to say - keep your eyes on FOTRS Ultimate
Now in development - it looks like it is going to be awesome
Check out the thread in the SH4 Mods Forum to see what has been achieved so far

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi RR
i agree with you.
GFO and the available combinations that can be added to it is very much underrated.
I would class it as a mini mega mod.
There are also many compatible mods available to enhance it even further.
Peter

[Admiral Halsey]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

After years of playing TMO/RSRDC I loaded up a GFO configuration without RSRDC. I was surprised how much fun GFO is and how I didn't miss RSRDC at all.

RSRDC says it is a campaign mod. But it also modifies your submarine, most of the warships, the environment, enemy AI, weather, air traffic........and lots more without any knowledge or consent of the player. If you play TMO and add RSRDC you are no longer playing TMO. All Ducimus' carefully balanced gameplay goes right out the window.

Ducimus' built-in campaign is just great and I much prefer his vision of SH4 gameplay.

Even RSRDC's campaign is a house of cards that falls on examination. He merely put the entire war in a straitjacket. If, for instance, a port sent out a convoy a week but interrupted it for a couple of weeks while the Wahoo lurked offshore, that port will send those exact convoys out, interrupting for the Wahoo, which will NEVER be there in your game. You can just sit outside the harbor and pick off scheduled convoys all war, except for the weeks Wahoo was there in real life.

That's called a scripted campaign. Seems historical but turns into a farce in practice. It assumes that if we wound time back and reran the war, every event would happen exactly the same. No, it's worse than that. It assumes that no matter what you do the Japanese would do the exact same things they did during the war. The one biggest improvement that SH3 and SH4 brought to submarine simulation was the dynamic campaign, where you can't predict encounters and they are randomly constituted. That way you can't predict what will happen in your war.

RSRDC removes the greatest improvement of Silent Hunter 4 and restores the strictly scripted concrete overshoes of Silent Hunter 2, and it's a vampire mod, sucking the soul out of any underlying supermod. NOT PROGRESS!

To be fair I don't think one really should play RSRDC just for the convoy's. I find I have just as much fun watching Midway(even though the AI planes kind f it up all the time) to the Naval Battles at Guadalcanal to the Philippine Sea and Samar. That's where the mod shines and where it's at its best. Though a mod that just adds the scripted battle's from RSRDC to TMO would be the best IMO as it still give's you Duci's viscous evil AI yet gives you the battles of the war presented as accurately as possible within the game's confines.

[ETAIPOS]

So, reading what you wrote, I decided to try TMO2.5tw.

And in the very first patrol I had very strange "battle".

Starting from Manila, I was patrolling south of Taiwan, got lucky finding small 1500t tanker. Then, not finding anthing there nor in the SW Taiwan, on the aproaches to ports, I decided to look for any supply ships moving towards Appari.

There, between Fuga and Camiguin islands I found full landing convoy with horde of merchants, 3 Kuma class cruisers and multiple DDs.

Now the strange thing is that this convoy was either stationary or moving way below 1 knot, I think ships were alternating between both states, but all had engines working (I located them with sonar first.). I moved in, a bit afraid, as 3 DDs were on patrol, and they reacted, steaming to the place where I activated silent running and dove below thermal layer.
The problem is while they were circling over that spot, and dropping DCs, they simply ignored everything what happened later - i reached periscope depth and started to murder the convoy, starting with one of the Kumas.
While I was diving below TL each time and repositioning for next attack, I expected, each time, to come under severe bombardment, but nothing happened. Even when, below TL, deactivated silent running and reloaded torps.
Three escorts never returned from where they lost me, and while a Kuma and 1-2 DD from convoy activated, they were only moving slowly in circles.
Finally after some time, they started moving north, but barely faster than before.
The result - 2 Kumas, 1 Asashio DD, and 2 merchants, and there would be more if I had not missed few shots, and I in fact decided to not follow them for more seal clubbing , as I still had 3+1 torps.

What's more, upon returning I got medal with the text claiming it's for 2 patrols, while I just finished first...


Edit: ok, I do not understand something. 2nd patrol. 23 december 41, i move into Lingayen Gulf, and find it empty, except for pair of US tugboats heading north. So I continue in the same direction, and close to Vigan I met invasion force heading to it, rather Lingayen.
Problems:
1. My sensor guys seem to be deaf, as I picked the sound much faster than they did. Enemy DDs were very close when bearings appeared on the map. Just after that, merchants were marked, while they were much further (twice further than DDs)
2. Night is clear, stars shine, only it's dark as in a cave. Do not seem possible, AFAIK. And my lookouts seem to be completely blind - Jap DD came close, then iluminated my ship, started firing and finally rammed me, running over my screws and rudder, damaging aft torpedo room. All that without contact marked on map, worse, without "ship sighted" message even! I mean, if it was dense fog, or rain I would be ok, but in clear night, mostly calm seas? I do have map contact on, as those tugboats were marked just fine, from very long range (although that was during the day).

[granite00]

1. For Peter and Rockin Robbins,
What other GFO enhancing mods would you suggest or what do you like to use?

2. Regarding ETAIPOS' comment about it being dark as in a cave, has anyone else been able to routinely carry out a close-in surface attack in this game. I've never been able to get away with it as they did in WW2.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by granite00

... has anyone else been able to routinely carry out a close-in surface attack in this game. I've never been able to get away with it as they did in WW2.

I've done it in a storm, lots of wind, rain rain rain, choppy seas, but not real bad. Sunk me three ships, all with torps, both ends of the boat, but I used the big scope, 'cause I couldn't see a *thing* from the bridge. Still almost made me seasick... The deck gun was useless in the seas, tossing us about like crazy. The only "advantage" I had was maneuverability, being able to change heading and shoot another. However, I almost ran into a freighter, and then almost got run over by a tanker. I did get the tanker back though, with the stern tubes...

I've *never* been able to get but maybe one ship while attacking on the surface just at night, and that was without a moon, and I missed with my first two shots. Once I hit the first dude with one torpedo, the world was ablaze with flares from just about every ship in the convoy. Painted me real nice-like for the DDs and everybody elses' guns to target me. Down I went. I do not like non-standard issue holes in the pressure hull of my boat. Most times, if I try to come in on the surface, I'm spotted from like 3200 yards, or if I come up topside in the middle of 'em, it's right after I've surfaced, and then *everybody* knows where I am. I might get a couple shots off. Others are probably much better at it than me though.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by granite00

1. For Peter and Rockin Robbins,
What other GFO enhancing mods would you suggest or what do you like to use?

2. Regarding ETAIPOS' comment about it being dark as in a cave, has anyone else been able to routinely carry out a close-in surface attack in this game. I've never been able to get away with it as they did in WW2.

1. I like to add TMOPlot and TMOKeys. TMOPlot removes the text that tells you the type of ship, direction of travel and speed. It also gets rid of the ship silhouettes that tell you what kind of ship you have on radar and uses a simple position point. There is no velocity vector either. You have to develop the enemy course and speed on your own.

TMOKeys just institutes the TMO keyboard commands from about TMO 1.7, not the new ones from 2.5. It's almost the same keyboard commands as SH3 and that's where I originally came from. It also gives you direct F6 access to the attack map. Keyboard layout is just a matter of personal preference, so people should be able to use the layout they want, or even make their own. TMOKeys comes with a keyboard configurator program so you can do that!

Beware of environmental mods. Because of the coding of the game environmental mods can result in screwey stuff like periscopes that won't lock on targets, changes in the balance between your ability to detect targets on deck or at the hydrophone station and crew detection, targets' ability to detect torpedoes and other unwanted effects. Personally, I've chosen to stay with the environment that comes with the supermods I use. With GFO that's the standard environment.

2. Night surface attacks are something of a problem with SH4, we not being any near as successful as real life. Now surface attacks with decks awash (sub at 30' for a fleet boat) can be done, even in TMO, if you have rough seas and darkness. In TMO I can get about 3000 yards from an escort before I'm detected. You should be able to do better in GFO. I haven't had a chance to try that yet.

Bad weather and dark are your friends. And radar....

[granite00]

I added a few things Webster created after the base GFO, TMO Plot, TMO Keys, the 3000 yd bearing tool and a nomograph. That's it so far and it seems to work fine.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by granite00

I added a few things Webster created after the base GFO, TMO Plot, TMO Keys, the 3000 yd bearing tool and a nomograph. That's it so far and it seems to work fine.

One of the advantages of GFO is that it leaves stock settings alone unless there is something wrong with them. Therefore layering mods onto GFO isn't the quagmire that some other supermods are.

Your setup looks great. I was utterly shocked how much fun GFO is. The night surface attack is the only frustrating thing about it and nobody has a handle on how to make that realistic without destroying other aspects of gameplay.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi granite
This was the GFO mods I used.
Post #2 Beginners Mod List For SH4
When adding additional mods by Webster it is important that you read the GFO text file that is included as GFO already has some of his mods already built in to it.
As i said before, GFO is very underrated and great fun to play especially for the beginner as it like having an advanced stock version but without the bugs.
Peter

[granite00]

Thanks Peter,
I'll look this over more closely. A number of these add-ons look interesting to me.