I guess i'm improving

[xXNightEagleXx]

Considering that i have never played any silent hunter or even any submarine game until 1 and half week ago, I started with the stock version and managed to successfully ambush and attack a convoy. Yesterday i switched to TMO and i've already managed to ambush (without being spotted by destroyers), attack the convoy, destroy the merchant and more important to sneak away (which is pretty harder).

I'm playing with only map contact on (TMO) but i'm aiming to no contact, even though i try to do as if i didn't have any contact (but you never feel completely blind).
So by now using the first two method of "4 bearings methods guide" i can get an acceptable course when still having only passing sonar info (if you guys can suggest any other method i will appreciate, regardless more or less accurate).
However my struggles begin at this point, first of all when i can finally identify the target, it seems that i don't have enough time anymore (maybe it is just a matter or practice).

Sometimes it is so dark and foggy that i just cannot identify it. In case like this, what should i do? I mean if only merchant i'd make use of active sonar but in case of escort? Should I just fire salvo and hit whatever it hits?

Supposing that i can identify the target on time, should i proceed to speed (using vertical crosshair), distance and AOB order (using the omnimeter)?

I could use the three minutes rule but that would require no escort and active sonar (or am i wrong?). It seem that the crosshair method suffer of limited enemy bearing range, so you couldn't use it when they are too far away (or could i? XD)

Another thing that i really have to improve is the ability to strike more ship on the same attack, but correct me if i'm wrong at the beginning of the war in TMO deploying torpedo to multiple targets increase the risk of not dealing enough damage? (in my first TMO try i launched 4 torpedo and all of them failed to detonate...i forgot how you guys say it).

Please feel free to criticize and suggest more tactics or methods.

Thanks in advance


PS: this game is awesome, one of the best i have never played.

[xXNightEagleXx]

I forgot to add that the tactic i usually use to sneak away is to dive as much as i can, 1/3 speed and aim to somewhere where i will go through the task force group to cover any noise with their own noise).

[xXNightEagleXx]

Sorry but there is one more thing, i've the option to ask your watch man to identify a target but when i click it, it says target identified....so where should i see the result?

[granite00]

Originally Posted by FuriousEagle

Sorry but there is one more thing, i've the option to ask your watch man to identify a target but when i click it, it says target identified....so where should i see the result?

You will see the ship identity in the top portion of the Position Keeper...eventually. It doesn't always show up immediately.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by FuriousEagle

Considering that i have never played any silent hunter or even any submarine game until..

It sounds like you're picking it up pretty well.

I'm playing with only map contact on (TMO) but i'm aiming to no contact, even though i try to do as if i didn't have any contact (but you never feel completely blind).

It is probably better to start with map-contacts. I play without them, but I've had a lot of practice.

So by now using the first two method of "4 bearings methods guide" i can get an acceptable course when still having only passing sonar info (if you guys can suggest any other method i will appreciate, regardless more or less accurate).

I don't use the sonar only methods, so can't help you there. Really, I just use basic geometry to plot out the enemy course, step by step, using visual observation. It takes time but does the job.

However my struggles begin at this point, first of all when i can finally identify the target, it seems that i don't have enough time anymore (maybe it is just a matter or practice).

ID'ing a target is difficult, if it is a distance away. I will start a plot based on stadimeter for a 90 ft. mast height (for merchants). I use 'seaman's eye' to estimate AoB. This will get me close enough to get an ID and obtain better data.

Sometimes it is so dark and foggy that i just cannot identify it. In case like this, what should i do? I mean if only merchant i'd make use of active sonar but in case of escort? Should I just fire salvo and hit whatever it hits?

If you can hit the target, and are reasonably sure it is an enemy vessel, there is no need to make a positive ID.

Supposing that i can identify the target on time, should i proceed to speed (using vertical crosshair), distance and AOB order (using the omnimeter)?

I could use the three minutes rule but that would require no escort and active sonar (or am i wrong?). It seem that the crosshair method suffer of limited enemy bearing range, so you couldn't use it when they are too far away (or could i? XD)

I don't use the omnimeter or timing by wire method. As far as entering data into TDC, I would enter speed, Aob, range and bearing last. The main thing is to enter bearing last because it changes quickly, and it is really the only one that you will be sure of.

Another thing that i really have to improve is the ability to strike more ship on the same attack, but correct me if i'm wrong at the beginning of the war in TMO deploying torpedo to multiple targets increase the risk of not dealing enough damage? (in my first TMO try i launched 4 torpedo and all of them failed to detonate...i forgot how you guys say it).

I don't really worry about getting more than one at a time. If you have a good opportunity to get multiple targets, there is nothing wrong in trying, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A lot depends on your play style and options. If you play with the hardest options, you tend to see every approach as an uncertain business, even with only single targets.

Please feel free to criticize and suggest more tactics or methods.

Thanks in advance


PS: this game is awesome, one of the best i have never played.

About evasion, going deep and slow is generally a good tactic, but it is not the engine telegraph setting that determines the noise you make, it is the rpm's of your engine (i.e. the speed). Different mods set different speeds for 1/3, 2/3, etc. I will order 3 knots or even 2 knots, if I want to be very quiet. In my boat, this is less than 1/3.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Thanks TorpX,

The style you are describing, includes estimating the path and wait at 90 degree? or you are using another style of final attack?

I don't use the sonar only methods, so can't help you there. Really, I just use basic geometry to plot out the enemy course, step by step, using visual observation. It takes time but does the job.

Can you suggest a safe distance that i can keep to gather visual data?

I don't use the omnimeter or timing by wire method. As far as entering data into TDC, I would enter speed, Aob, range and bearing last. The main thing is to enter bearing last because it changes quickly, and it is really the only one that you will be sure of.

Do you calculate AoB and range dynamically as you go or statically to your estimated interception point? Wait what? how do you set bearing manually? I can set speed and AoB and with OTC i can even set range manually, but i don't see where i can set the bearing if not inside the sonar view (it seem that it set automatically once i set length using stadimeter).

Thanks in advance

[Rockin Robbins]

In order for your visual stadimeter data to be reasonably accurate you have to be within 2000 yards. It just isn't in the cards to begin gathering data that late, so set your priorities on speed and course of the enemy. Knowing his course is knowing his AoB so that gives you everything but bearing and range.

Bearing changes rapidly so that will be the last input before you fire. But range is critical if your torpedo track angle is more than 20º. Plan for that bearing to be under 20º and make sure to get a last stadimeter range at under 1500 yards. That should get you close enough if you fire from 500 to 700 yards away.

Playing with map contacts off is not realistic. It is difficult. Real captains had the benefit of a tracking party that gave them all the info you have on the TMO nav map. I think that is the closest to reality we can get. Going with map contacts off deprives you of critical radar information which our poor radar screens and lack of measuring and TDC input tools can't handle by themselves. Playing with map contacts off is like crossing an eight lane freeway blindfolded. It's difficult. You might just succeed. But no sane person would do such a thing. You get difficulty kudos but not realism points there.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Ok, here's some tips about things you asked and some things I wish I knew when I started.

Based solely on my own experience using tmo (and this will vary from mod to mod), I would call *safe* srufaced distance at about 6 miles during daylight and 5,000 yards at night. You can get closer depending on aspect ratio (if the target is at bearing 0, you have a much smaller profile than if the target is at bearing 90), speed, visibility conditions, etc.



You talk alot about passive sonar. I have done quite a bit of practice with it and don't recommend it in general as the result is quite inaccurate. The other big reason I don't reccomend passive sonar only plots involves the fact that it requires a course/speed change when the target starts to get close. The more radical the change, the better for accuracy. In my experience, the US fleetboats, with their poor turn rates when moving silently, this generally requires engines at ahead 2/3 minimum to make a time deadline. Combine this with the fact that japanese merchants have hydrophone sets, and this often means that the merchant is alerted to your presence and begins evasive action, spoiling your plot and your shot.

Unless visibility is horrible, you are better off getting a visual range estimate using the stadimeter. You didn't mention this tool anywhere, so I suggest you look into what it is if you don't already know.

Personally, I would say that accurate stadimeter readings are limited to about 4,000 yards with good visibility.

I did write something a while back about accurate estimation of target range at very long ranges. In that case, I got an accurate reading on at target that was 11,000 yards away. It can be found here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=201121




One technique that will help you close in on a target that you are ahead of to attack position is the simple collision course technique. There is a concept called "constant bearing decreasing range", which exactly describes a collision course. It's easiest to describe this by example.

So suppose that there is a merchant to the northwest heading towards your position and you are submerged ahead of him off of his port bow. His general course means that you need to head west. Turn to heading 270 and point your periscope right at him and don't move it. If the target is moving from right to left, he will reach the point of collision before you do and you need to turn left more or increase speed. If the target is moving from left to right, he will reach the point of collision after you do so turn right more or decrease speed. It will probably take you a few tries to get it right. Obviously, you don't want to actually collide with him, so at some point you will need to either turn into him or slow down.



You asked about striking more than one ship in a single attack and I was already thinking about putting a tutorial up. I'll probably put something up about it in the next couple of days. I don't really recommend the practice until you hit a point in the war where your torpedoes are fairly reliable though. Before that point, I'm usually firing 4 torpedoes at any good size target and usually 3 at smaller targets just to try to ensure that at least one of them works. Later in the war, I tend to fire between 1 and 3 depending on target size.



When identifying ships, look for distinguishing features. For example, if the smokestack is in the back on the ship instead of the middle, it is a tanker. Pay attention to the way the central part of the ship, the masts, the smokestack, etc is configured. Be on the lookout for distinctive setups in the gunwale, etc. In time, you will probably memorize a good portion of the ships in the game. There's a few I still get mixed up (momoyama maru and ryuun maru ever frickin time), but mostly I can id every merchantman in the game at a glance now. Noteworthy is the fact that it is a *lot* easier to identify a ship from the side than it is from the bow. In the radar era, when I'm usually in attack position well before I can even see the ships, I often don't even identify until just before I fire.

[xXNightEagleXx]

Thank you all.

@ColonelSandersLite, technically i didn't forget i just skipped it because it imply that i have already the ship identification (unless i'm doing something wrong). That said i really thank you because i surely learned more thing right there.

@Rockin Robbins, i understand what you are saying there. Although there was no digital map at the time, the amount of data from crew gave the captain the feel of something like that (if i understood correctly).

I've read about entering the bearing here, it seems that you can insert it manually independent from others data, but until now i only had it entered by using sonar view or automatically when using the stadimeter. Can you guys correct me if i'm wrong?

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by FuriousEagle

Thanks TorpX,

The style you are describing, includes estimating the path and wait at 90 degree? or you are using another style of final attack?

No. It can use any track angle, but involves a lot of calculating and plotting, so it is probably best left for when you know the game better.

Can you suggest a safe distance that i can keep to gather visual data?

If submerged, and going slow, you can often get very close. However, I prefer to have most of my plot done before I get within 2,000 yds., so I can focus on the attack.

Do you calculate AoB and range dynamically as you go or statically to your estimated interception point?

I estimate Aob based on the view (hard to be accurate at long range, or in the dark). The plot is updated as the approach progresses. After a good plot is developed, I will plan for a "interception". Hard to explain it all in a paragraph.

Wait what? how do you set bearing manually? I can set speed and AoB and with OTC i can even set range manually, but i don't see where i can set the bearing if not inside the sonar view (it seem that it set automatically once i set length using stadimeter).

Yes, you are right. Bearing and range are input at the same time. Like Rockin' Robbins said. Best to do it last, so it is accurate.

[Rockin Robbins]

It's interesting that we can enter range and bearing separately from the sonar but not from the periscope/TBT. That's something of a defect.