Mod order help for GFO please help - Page 3

propbeanie · 12-11-16, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakkhen20

so when you activate a mod, what exactly happens ? does it replace the original file with what is being activated or does it add to the file? im trying to understand it more.

Activating a mod is ~supposed~ to replace some of the files, and add others, dependent upon the mod. Some mods just add, others just replace, some do both. Any file that is replaced is backed-up by JSGME and the "new" one put in it's place. That way, if and when the user removes the mod, the mod is deleted from the game's folders, and the original files brought back in from the back-up. The mod itself is always there in the MODS folder.

drakkhen20 · 12-11-16, 02:34 AM

right, ok. so in that transfer of files is where sometimes this corruption can take place then ? correct?

Rockin Robbins · 12-11-16, 04:08 PM

Okay, let's use JSGME to install a mod into stock SH4. You know that the mod has to have a directory structure that mirrors SH4's, starting with the \data subdirectory. So a mod will be a directory named the name of the mod, containing a directory tree mirroring as much of SH4's directory tree as is necessary for the mod.

Sh4 scans the directory tree of the mod, seeing which of the game files are going to be replaced. Then it saves the paths and files in its hidden scratchpad files. Finally, it copies the files from the mod in the MODS directory and replaces the proper files in the game. Now the mod is installed. JSGME has replaced game files with mod files, taken notes on which files those are and saved the original game files so it can restore them later. That's mod installation.

If JSGME installs another mod and some of its files replace not game files but a previously installed mod file, JSGME makes notes and saves the replaced files for that too. It then greys out the mod name that was "stepped on" by a subsequently added mod.

Whether you have greyed out mod names in your list or not it still is a good idea to always uninstall mods in reverse order: last installed, first uninstalled.

So what goes wrong and what is mod soup? Mod soup is corruption of the game files caused by JSGME not doing the uninstallation process correctly. Suppose you tell it to uninstall the mod you installed in the first paragraph. JSGME looks at its scratchpads and buffer file. They tell it which files must be overwritten with the stored original files. But approximately 1 tenth of a percent to a hundredth of a percent of the time, JSGME does not replace the modded file with the original file.

So when the uninstallation process is done and JSGME shows a blank installed mods list, some of the files in the game directory (not the MOD directory or the hidden scratchpad files) are modified. JSGME is now telling you your game is stock but it is not.

This is proved by my video, which starts out showing the JSGME screen and the installed mods list empty. All the mods were uninstalled in reverse order and JSGME tells me I have a stock game. But I do not, and that is proven when I do a file compare and find a dozen or so files not identical to their original form. When JSGME says you are playing the stock game and you have changed files in your directory you have mod soup. In fact, that is the DEFINITION of mod soup: a disparity between JSGME's analysis of game status and real game status.

Watching my video above, you see the proof. It's not open for debate or opinion, it's the plain truth. The mod soup is in game files that are supposed to be original, but they are not. You can delete JSGME, its hidden files and the MODS directory and play the game. You'll see you still have mod soup. That is because some of your game files are changed from their original form.

The only way to fix mod soup is to replace the modified game files with their original copies. Yes, you can spend hours comparing file by file and finding them, replacing them one by one. But why not plan for this to happen? Why not, when you first play the game, copy the entire contents of \Wolves of the Pacific, plus JSGME, MultiSH4 and Large Address Aware into their own parallel directory, call it \SH4Pristeen then write protect the directory, all subdirectories and files so it can never be played.

Then when you find that with all mods uninstalled and JSGME shows changed files you can do the sensible thing. Drop the hydrogen bomb on it. First of all, since JSGME never writes to the mods in the MODS directory, it is VERY unlikely that is causing your problem. Remember, mod soup lives in the game files, not the MODS directory. I hope you just proved that to yourself and didn't just take my word for it. I don't care if you believe me, I want you to know the truth.

So delete all files and directories from \Wolves of the Pacific except the MODS directory.
Now copy all files and directories from \SH4Pristeen to the \Wolves of the Pacific directory.
Then in Explorer, right-click \Wolves of the Pacific and write enable the directory and ALL contents, both directories and files.
Run MultiSH4 to tell SH4 which savegame directory to use
Run Large Address Aware on your \Wolves of the Pacific\SH4.exe file to enable it to use more than 2 GB of RAM.
Run JSGME and do a compare snapshot function. You'll see that although you have done nothing to the MODS directory, all files are identical and you no longer have mod soup. You have not done a single function of Websters "method," yet mod soup is gone.
Install your mods. Run the game. Load your last save. Play as if you never had mod soup. Your settings are saved. Your saved games are saved. You have proved that Webster's instructions have no basis in reality at all and are just a quaint superstition.

Although it has never happened to me in nine years of playing the game there is a remote possibility of file corruption in the MODS directory, just as there can be random file corruption in any directory at any time. That is a malfunction of Windows.

What I do to combat that is put a copy of the zipped mod in the MODS directory. If I suspect the mod is corrupted I delete the unzipped mod and replace it by unzipping again. Corrupted zip files are self-checking and tell you when they are corrupted. Like I say, in nine years of playing a wide variety of games using JSGME I've never had to do this once. Corruption of files in the MODS directory is VERY RARE. A corrupted Windows installation can invalidate that statement. So can certain hardware problems, like burst electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard. Don't ask me how I know. I still have flashbacks from that horrible experience.

So now you know what mod soup is. You know how to positively identify whether you have mod soup or not. You know that mod soup lives in the game files, not in the MODS directory or JSGME's hidden files. And you know the procedure to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt for yourself, not depending on any ability or authority of mine, that my understanding, based on the hard experiences of the Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate Project Team, is absolutely rock solid true and complete.

drakkhen20 · 12-12-16, 10:33 PM

ok i got that point. thanks. so i did an absolute fresh install of SH4 on a different drive all together. played it and still got the no eyes on the bridge. so went back into Shinning directory and renamed that file and all is well. so im guessing its a hardware or my hardware drivers having an issue with it. thanks for all that info guys.

ill get back to modding and check out that MultiSH4 as well.

12-14-16, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakkhen20

ok i got that point. thanks. so i did an absolute fresh install of SH4 on a different drive all together. played it and still got the no eyes on the bridge. so went back into Shinning directory and renamed that file and all is well. so im guessing its a hardware or my hardware drivers having an issue with it. thanks for all that info guys.

ill get back to modding and check out that MultiSH4 as well.

glad you figured it out but im still thinking its got to be your mod files that are the problem but at least you got it fixed now.

try looking through your mod downloads and see which mod has that borked file in it and then compare it to a brand new fresh download of that mod and im willing to bet you will find that "somehow" you accidentally corrupted the mod files themselves and kept putting the corrupted mod files back into jsgme.

to test this, once you determine which mod and which file it is, swap that mod out for a new virgin copy of the mod from a fresh new download.

also want to mention to ONLY use 7zip to unzip mod files since winzip and WinRAR have been known to cause file corruptions when opening files that have been compressed using 7zip which is what most modders use to compress mod files for uploading

Rockin Robbins · 12-14-16, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webster

also want to mention to ONLY use 7zip to unzip mod files since winzip and WinRAR have been known to case filr corruptions when opening files that have been compressed using 7zip which is what most modders use to compress mod files for uploading

Yes, Google search for 7zip, download and install, then uninstall all your other archive software. It's that good. And there is no interface! Right click your .7zip, .rar, .zip, it doesn't seem to care what you throw at it, and it just works.

And that's only the beginning. Set your default zipper to 7zip File Manager. You're done.

drakkhen20 · 12-16-16, 12:45 AM

thanks guys. very much.

12-11-16, 04:08 PM	#33
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Okay, let's use JSGME to install a mod into stock SH4. You know that the mod has to have a directory structure that mirrors SH4's, starting with the \data subdirectory. So a mod will be a directory named the name of the mod, containing a directory tree mirroring as much of SH4's directory tree as is necessary for the mod. Sh4 scans the directory tree of the mod, seeing which of the game files are going to be replaced. Then it saves the paths and files in its hidden scratchpad files. Finally, it copies the files from the mod in the MODS directory and replaces the proper files in the game. Now the mod is installed. JSGME has replaced game files with mod files, taken notes on which files those are and saved the original game files so it can restore them later. That's mod installation. If JSGME installs another mod and some of its files replace not game files but a previously installed mod file, JSGME makes notes and saves the replaced files for that too. It then greys out the mod name that was "stepped on" by a subsequently added mod. Whether you have greyed out mod names in your list or not it still is a good idea to always uninstall mods in reverse order: last installed, first uninstalled. So what goes wrong and what is mod soup? Mod soup is corruption of the game files caused by JSGME not doing the uninstallation process correctly. Suppose you tell it to uninstall the mod you installed in the first paragraph. JSGME looks at its scratchpads and buffer file. They tell it which files must be overwritten with the stored original files. But approximately 1 tenth of a percent to a hundredth of a percent of the time, JSGME does not replace the modded file with the original file. So when the uninstallation process is done and JSGME shows a blank installed mods list, some of the files in the game directory (not the MOD directory or the hidden scratchpad files) are modified. JSGME is now telling you your game is stock but it is not. This is proved by my video, which starts out showing the JSGME screen and the installed mods list empty. All the mods were uninstalled in reverse order and JSGME tells me I have a stock game. But I do not, and that is proven when I do a file compare and find a dozen or so files not identical to their original form. When JSGME says you are playing the stock game and you have changed files in your directory you have mod soup. In fact, that is the DEFINITION of mod soup: a disparity between JSGME's analysis of game status and real game status. Watching my video above, you see the proof. It's not open for debate or opinion, it's the plain truth. The mod soup is in game files that are supposed to be original, but they are not. You can delete JSGME, its hidden files and the MODS directory and play the game. You'll see you still have mod soup. That is because some of your game files are changed from their original form. The only way to fix mod soup is to replace the modified game files with their original copies. Yes, you can spend hours comparing file by file and finding them, replacing them one by one. But why not plan for this to happen? Why not, when you first play the game, copy the entire contents of \Wolves of the Pacific, plus JSGME, MultiSH4 and Large Address Aware into their own parallel directory, call it \SH4Pristeen then write protect the directory, all subdirectories and files so it can never be played. Then when you find that with all mods uninstalled and JSGME shows changed files you can do the sensible thing. Drop the hydrogen bomb on it. First of all, since JSGME never writes to the mods in the MODS directory, it is VERY unlikely that is causing your problem. Remember, mod soup lives in the game files, not the MODS directory. I hope you just proved that to yourself and didn't just take my word for it. I don't care if you believe me, I want you to know the truth. So delete all files and directories from \Wolves of the Pacific except the MODS directory. Now copy all files and directories from \SH4Pristeen to the \Wolves of the Pacific directory. Then in Explorer, right-click \Wolves of the Pacific and write enable the directory and ALL contents, both directories and files. Run MultiSH4 to tell SH4 which savegame directory to use Run Large Address Aware on your \Wolves of the Pacific\SH4.exe file to enable it to use more than 2 GB of RAM. Run JSGME and do a compare snapshot function. You'll see that although you have done nothing to the MODS directory, all files are identical and you no longer have mod soup. You have not done a single function of Websters "method," yet mod soup is gone. Install your mods. Run the game. Load your last save. Play as if you never had mod soup. Your settings are saved. Your saved games are saved. You have proved that Webster's instructions have no basis in reality at all and are just a quaint superstition. Although it has never happened to me in nine years of playing the game there is a remote possibility of file corruption in the MODS directory, just as there can be random file corruption in any directory at any time. That is a malfunction of Windows. What I do to combat that is put a copy of the zipped mod in the MODS directory. If I suspect the mod is corrupted I delete the unzipped mod and replace it by unzipping again. Corrupted zip files are self-checking and tell you when they are corrupted. Like I say, in nine years of playing a wide variety of games using JSGME I've never had to do this once. Corruption of files in the MODS directory is VERY RARE. A corrupted Windows installation can invalidate that statement. So can certain hardware problems, like burst electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard. Don't ask me how I know. I still have flashbacks from that horrible experience. So now you know what mod soup is. You know how to positively identify whether you have mod soup or not. You know that mod soup lives in the game files, not in the MODS directory or JSGME's hidden files. And you know the procedure to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt for yourself, not depending on any ability or authority of mine, that my understanding, based on the hard experiences of the Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate Project Team, is absolutely rock solid true and complete. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-11-16, 02:34 AM	#32
drakkhen20 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississippi Posts: 650 Downloads: 345 Uploads: 0	right, ok. so in that transfer of files is where sometimes this corruption can take place then ? correct?

12-12-16, 10:33 PM	#34
drakkhen20 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississippi Posts: 650 Downloads: 345 Uploads: 0	ok i got that point. thanks. so i did an absolute fresh install of SH4 on a different drive all together. played it and still got the no eyes on the bridge. so went back into Shinning directory and renamed that file and all is well. so im guessing its a hardware or my hardware drivers having an issue with it. thanks for all that info guys. ill get back to modding and check out that MultiSH4 as well.

12-16-16, 12:45 AM	#37
drakkhen20 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mississippi Posts: 650 Downloads: 345 Uploads: 0	thanks guys. very much.