From What distance Merchant crews could spot u boat at night

[Niume]

What distance Merchant crews could spot your uboat at night. I am interested because in Sh 3 you could get spotted about 3 km away from Merchant I got spotter
I have no experience in real sea. Haven't been on a ship, especially at night.
So in reality could u boat pass merchant ship about 400m? Undetected because in SH5 TWOS merchant crews are basically blind, I am not sure if this realistic.

And how do reduce visual range of merchant crews in sh 3

It is for SH4, but I think it works also for SH3 :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

At night, a U-Boot was invisible if there was no moon in the sky. If there was moonlight, the U-Boot was nearly impossible to detect if its hull was turned towards the ennemy, or if the moon was behind her.

Just my 2 cents...

[bstanko6]

Depends on their veteran status. As the war progresses, deck watches become better.

In the beginning of the war, you could get as close as 3000 meters at night without being seen.

I'm playing a campaign in 1942, and they can see me in daylight at around 10km.

Night at around 3-5 km.

If you change it, it would reduce realism in my opinion.

[Obltn Strand]

I close inside 1000m to shoot lone merchants at night...

[Niume]

Originally Posted by Kendras

It is for SH4, but I think it works also for SH3 :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

At night, a U-Boot was invisible if there was no moon in the sky. If there was moonlight, the U-Boot was nearly impossible to detect if its hull was turned towards the ennemy, or if the moon was behind her.

Just my 2 cents...

the link is not working

Originally Posted by Niume

the link is not working

Ops, sry, wrong copy-paste.

For SH3 :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103968

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

For SH4 :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119272

About night vision, IIRC, there is an option in H.Sie or Stiebler patch to delete what they call the "vampire vision" (or the capacity to see in the dark).

And by the way, I found this which could interest you : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=103839

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Kendras

It is for SH4, but I think it works also for SH3 :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219

At night, a U-Boot was invisible if there was no moon in the sky. If there was moonlight, the U-Boot was nearly impossible to detect if its hull was turned towards the ennemy, or if the moon was behind her.

Just my 2 cents...

Quite true! (Not literally invisible but close enough). I read of one account where a U-Boat officer could actually see a cigarette in the hand of a sailor on a ship....he and the other merchants in convoy had no idea the U-Boat was even there.

I agree that the SH series often underestimates how bad merchant ship lookout keeping was. SH3 should have provided different visual sensors for merchants/warships and different phases of the war.

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Quite true! (Not literally invisible but close enough).

The shadow in the darkness ...

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

SH3 should have provided different visual sensors for merchants/warships and different phases of the war.

Hehehe, already done (but not for different phases of the war) :

Originally Posted by Kendras

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

[Niume]

Kendras will this mod work with this modlist?

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[D:\SilentHunterIIII\MODS]

GWX - Alternative Flotillas
Rbs1_SH4_Effects_GWX_30_71
Q Ship mod GWX3.0
Hull damage made by torpedo impact mod
TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1_4_SH3
FM_NewInterior v2.1D
Urfischs_ModStrike_Beta1
Destroyers&Corvette
Flags_enlighten
Rapt0r's Uniforms V2.0 [Grey]
Thomsen's Sound Pack V3.2cg
Real Depth Charge
Karle's_Crash_Dive_Mod
KB's Diesel Sound Mod
SH-5 Water for SH-3 20 Km V84
LifeBoats&Debris_v4
Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080 Final
ahnenerbe widegui raob wheel speed mark corrected
TKSS18 German U-Boats Compilation
TKSS18 German U-Boats Compilation No Eagle
Torpedo_HAHD_1024_GWX
German U-Boats Compilation FuMO_Fix_SNS
New U-Boat Guns Fixed Reworked (for German U-Boats Compilation)
Shortcuts for German U-Boats Compilation Mod
Bordinstrumente_patch_2.2_Ahnenerbe
Optional O2-Gauges v2 (for V16B1)
U-Boat VIIB (Turm 1 Late)
Sh3_volumetric_clouds&fog_V2.2
WB's Decks Awash + Fuel Economy
WB's Renown Replacement
BritishAsdicMkIFinal
Color Dials with Light Compass
FixAllSubGWX
M.E.P v5- VisualSensors for GWX3
Rubini´s Underwater dust&plancton v1
OLC's Modified Searchlight Beams for GWX3
TorpedoTubesFfireFinal vGW
___WAC4.1_Realistic Hull Damage
depth charge explosions and fire light
Testpilot's Republic P-47D Thunderbolt
Testpilot's Grumman J2F Duck
Testpilot's P-40 Warhawk
rowi58's Fairey Fulmar
molke2005's Ilyushin IL2
WB's campaign files for the_frog's destroyers (stock GWX)
GWX - Merged Campaigns
Testpilot's Supermarine Walrus
Testpilot's Bf110
rowi58's Fairey Fulmar squadron GWX
S3H-H.sie-Patch-V16B1
REL_Extra_AI_Visuals_for_GWX_FINAL
EAX_Sound_Sim_SH3

[Niume]

IS where more simply way to reduce a night visibility a bit?

[CaptBones]

Quite awhile back I found this explanation...I'm sorry I don't remember who is the author, I'd give 'em credit if I could. But anyway, this explains the matter as well as anything I've ever seen and you can apply some, all, or none, of the changes yourself as you desire. I've found using SH3 CDR is the best way to do so; it gives you the flexibility to change the Allies abilities and skills as the war progresses. One thing to keep in mind...the visual detection factors apply to all Allied units, warships and merchant vessels (and aircraft too, I suppose). So, if you cause the merchant ship lookouts to be little more than blind, so do you also make the lookouts in the escorts blind. Anyway, here's the write-up I found...

"Settings in "data\Cfg\sim.cfg" files, using SH3 CDR "Date" Folders.

19390901
[Visual]
Detection time=10 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Light factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=400 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

[Radar]
Detection time=15 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=5.0 ;[m2]

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=15 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=20 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]
_______________________________________________
19410601
[Visual]
Detection time=10 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=1.25 ;[>=0]
Light factor=2.0 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=350 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

[Radar]
Detection time=10 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.9 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=5.0 ;[m2]

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=10 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.04 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.75 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=10 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=150 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]
_______________________________________________
19430501
[Visual]
Detection time=5 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=1.25 ;[>=0]
Light factor=2.0 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=300 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

[Radar]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.9 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=5.0 ;[m2]

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.04 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.75 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=0.5 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=10 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.6 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=100 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________
Explanation with Disclaimer:

The following is a terse version of how to adjust the AI. That is to say, this is how I think it works. So here's the cliffnotes spiel in no particular order:
---------------------------------------------------
Adjusing the AI as a whole I feel is comprised of the following:
- crew rating in campaign files: defines minimum sensor signal strength the AI will respond to, and accuracy.
- AI_sensor.dat: defines the geometry of active/passive sonar.
- Sim.cfg: the real guts of it, defines the parameters to illicit a response from the AI.
- depthcharges.sim/zon: becomes important when a response from the AI has been successfully made.
---------------------------------------------------
AI_sensor.dat
- It's believed when sensitivity is set 0, the game uses the sensitivity rating defined in the sim.cfg. Else, it uses the value in the AI_sensor.dat
- It is NOT neccessary to establsh a min range on active sonar due to the downward geometry of the beam. If you go deep enough, you'll get under the sonar.
- Max Elevation defines the downward angle of the beam, hence dictates how easy, or hard it is, to get under that sonar type's active beam.
---------------------------------------------------
SIM.CFG (stock examples being shown)
Quote:
[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.2
Waves attenuation=0.75
Defines the height and trough of waves. Greatly effects visual sensors, and has many adverse side effects. USE GREAT CAUTION when playing with this variable. Frankly, I don't recommend touching it.
Quote:
[AI detection]
Lost contact time=15
Defines how long the AI will actively look for you after losing contact on you. Also dictates response from nearby AI units. When player is detected, the detecting AI broadcasts its discovery to all nearby units. If you're within 15 mins reach, they will come to look. At 16 mins, if another detection of the player is not made by then, the AI will go back to what it was doing.
Quote:
[Visual]
Detection time=0.5
Sensitivity=0.01
Fog factor=1.0
Light factor=1.0
Waves factor=1.0
Enemy surface factor=400
Enemy speed factor=15

Think of the AI as a traffic cop. To get a ticket, you must be in violation of certain rules. Likewise, for visual detection to occur, you must be in violation of certain parameters:
- speed factor in this case means that you must be doing 15 kts or more for the AI to notice you.
- Surface factor means how much surface area of your sub you must be presenting to the AI in order for him to notice you.
- I've long suspected that for visual detection to occur, you must be breaking both of the above listed paremeters to get a response, but I've not conclusively proved that. It's either A, or B, or All of the above, I'm not 100% positive.
- detection time. You must be exceeding the surface and speed factors for this amount of time to illicit a response.
- Fog/light/wave factors. Think of them as environmental dampeners, or how much the environment handicaps the AI. Smaller the number the less the handicap, the larger the number, the more the handicap.
Quote:
[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1
Sensitivity=0.03
Height factor=0
Waves factor=0.5
Speed factor=15
Noise factor=1.0
Player noise is dictated by motor RPM. The more RPM, the more noise you're making, whether in Silent running or not. Silent running behaves boolean; it's either on or off.
-detection time, how long you can make a lot of racket before the AI takes notice.
-speed factor in this case dictates how fast the AI can go, and still be able to use this sensor. At 16kts, he can no longer hear anything.
- noise factor seems to dictate how much of your motor noise the AI can hear at a given range. Arbitrary numbers, 0.25 is quite sensitive, 1.0 is quite deaf.
- waves factor is your standard environmental handicap; 0.5 being quite the handicap, 0.95 being barely a handicap at all.
Quote:
[Sonar]
Detection time=20
Sensitivity=0.03
Waves factor=0.5
Speed factor=20
Enemy surface factor=200
Lose time=30
For player detection to occur (IE, to get the AI to ping), you must
A.) present him a favorable surface factor as defined by said variable
b.) be within his sonar cone as defined by the AI_sensor.dat
c.) be doing all of the above for the length of time specified by the detection time.
Stock detection time being 20, a lot of ground can be covered in that time by yourself, or the AI. Hence, the AI is often not able to keep you within his sonar cone while you are presenting a favorable surface factor during that time. Which is why you don't hear it ping a whole lot.
Depthcharges:sim/zon
SIM:
- fall speed; self explantiory
- depth precision; sets area at which DC will randomly explode when set at a given depth by the AI. For example, with a depth precision of 20, if the AI sets the DC to explode at 160feet, then the DC could randomly explode anywhere between 140 feet and 180 feet. Default game setting is a depth precision of FIVE.
- explosion range, defines how much of the depth charge's shock wave you can feel. Does no damage. By raising this value, the closer the DC is, the more your boat will shake when it explodes DO not go overboard with this, as said shockwave can (if you set it high enough) acutally propel the boat in the water at high speeds. Rather humorous, but highly unrealistic.
ZON:
Min/Max EF
-defines min and max damage range.
- Min radius. Defines the area at which the depth charge will do full damage. Default I believe is 4.5, meaning if the depth charge explodes within 4.5 meters of your sub, it does full damage.
- Max radius, defines outward radius that damage is applied by diminishing returns. Meaning if you have a depth charge at 4.5 min radius and at 40 max radius, this means that anywhere within 4.5 meters the depth charge does its full damage. From 4.5 meters outward to 40 damage is still applied, but less damage is applied to the player sub at 39 meters than at 5 meters. The farther away you are from the center of the explosion, the less damage it does; 4.5/40 is the game default.
Misc remarks on the AI in general:
- Does not ping without reason. (IE, be in sonar cone, presenting favorable profile to said sonar cone, and be doing both for X amount of time)
- AI has two states, Normal and Alert. You see it all the time. When alerted the threshold values are heightened in order to more easily illicit a response from the AI.
- The AI can only use active or passive at a singluar moment in time, it cannot do both. You see this all the time whenever you raise your periscope. When you do, you're using your visual sensor, and your hydrophone contacts are temporarily lost until you stop using your visual sensor (periscope). AI works the same way; either or, it cannot do both at once." ...One additional note here...if there are two (or more) escorts in contact with you, they can share the search and attack duties ("Brother" and "Sister" back in the day when I was doing that sort of business). One can be using active sonar while the other is listening passively.

Well, more than just merchant ship lookout adjustments, but hopefully it'll be helpful. Good luck and good hunting...

Originally Posted by Niume

Kendras will this mod work with this modlist?

Yes, sure, but it will surely change at least these two mods in your list :

M.E.P v5- VisualSensors for GWX3
REL_Extra_AI_Visuals_for_GWX_FINAL

Originally Posted by CaptBones

So, if you cause the merchant ship lookouts to be little more than blind, so do you also make the lookouts in the escorts blind.

Not if you use this mod : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=106956

Originally Posted by Ducimus

What does this mod do?
It addes extra visual sensors so you can have ships with varying degrees of visual acuity. By default all units that can visually see something in GWX all share the same visual acuity.

How does this work?
The AI_visual.dat in this mod is from NYGM 2.0. IT addes several visual nodes. Ive only made use of 4 of them.

- AI_visual is assigned to all warships that are not captial ships.
- F_Visual is assigned to Battleships, battlecruisers, and cruisers.
- M_visual is used by all merchants and everything else that floats.
- AirS_Visual is used by all planes.

And I think it is a very very good idea. Will try this ASAP.

Originally Posted by CaptBones

Quite awhile back I found this explanation...I'm sorry I don't remember who is the author, I'd give 'em credit if I could.

Here :

Originally Posted by Kendras

For SH4 :
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395