[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

My "Seawolf" just sank a Big Modern Hansa Freighter in the South China Sea (January 1942). I noticed no sound contact and no sound on the hydrophones throughout the approach. Fired 4 torps, 3 hit, 1 dud. She sank quickly. Dick O'Kane attack method.

Even though I could hear nothing on the sound equipment I noticed that the green light came on when I scanned in the direction of the sunken ship. It did not come on at all during the approach.

January 1942, with a Sargo? Just wondering about that?

At the start of war the S-Class, Porpoise, Narwhal should require the player to be submerged, at Periscope Depth, in order to have the Hydrophones work. They have their receivers on the deck (like the German U-Boat) and require a submerged sub to have the "passive" receiver to hear anything. By September 1942, the Porpoise and Narwhal are refitted automatically with a hull mounted receiver.....allowing these two to be surfaced to pick up passive hydrophone sound. The S-Class will keep its deck mount receiver for the entire war. All other subs have hull mount receivers.

Here's the problem, the stock game has a bug. The bug is to not hear a ship with the passive hydrophones when the target ship is traveling under half its Maximum Speed. All ships have a Maximum Speed setting in its .sim file. If the ship is set to travel between waypoints, at half its MaxSpeed, it won't be heard by the player. A stock game bug that's made even more evident when stock Campaign files are modded to reflect a more realistic ship travel pattern. Most stock game target merchant ships travel at 9 knots....if its MaxSpeed is set to 15 knots, you'll hear the ship just fine. If the ship is set to travel at 7 knots between waypoints, your hydrophone is deaf as a post for the player.

I've got a possible solution to this issue but its going to take a lot of effort. The effort is going to come in changing ship "Types" in the specific ship files; change specific MaxSpeed figures in those ship .sim files; then the real hard work comes in......to make the Campaign files (that's all Campaign mission files, Dynamic; Single Mission; Sub School etc.) relate to those specific ship modifications. We just ran into the issue of having just one ship (the Kongo) with a misplaced "Type" error and causing all kinds of confusion, just think of the calamity if we do the entire lot of ships in Fotrs Ultimate?! We'll need all-hands-on-deck for that correction.

But look guys, this issue has been with us since day one. As I said, its become more evident when we either added true life maximum speed figures to the target ships, or decided to have the ship travel at true life speeds instead of a steady 9 knot plus speed between point A to B as the stock game has it..

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7

I've used the NAusCru in a couple of my other missions, off the top of my head can't recall which ones they are at the moment.

I will look into them more next week when I'm on vacation.

I just went through the mod files though cdrsubron7, and all of yours should be fine. Definitely double-check though. This was a one-hit wonder I had in my SingleMission files for testing. How I missed it, I dunno, but I did. I don't think that test file would be in anyone else's install...

CapnScurvy, definitely take yourself a run in cdrsubron7's Bungo Suido mission, follow his set route mostly South at All Ahead Standard on the surface, avoid his scout airplanes, and a little bit later, the TaFee will be to the starboard, silent as can be, even to your sonar man. No lines whatsoever. I'm going to exit my current try, since I'm pinned down below this pesky DD, and I'll try again, and get right in the middle of the Group, and post you back some pix...

[Front Runner]

[QUOTE=CapnScurvy;2490982]January 1942, with a Sargo? Just wondering about that?

@CapnScurby I started the campaign Dec. 8 1941 Asiatic Fleet and the Sargo was one of the options. I got the Seawolf.

You may be right about the less than 1/2 speed. The target was doing 8 knots and the reference speed is 19 knots. It was a Big Modern Hansa Freighter.

I'll keep playing and making notes.

[propbeanie]

OK, got a couple of things. CapnScurvy, I just did 3 CA Tone in a Test mission with one at 16 knots, one at 20 knots and one at 30 knots. The max speed on those vessels is 36.5 knots. I got to within 4100 yards of the fastest, and 3000 yards of the slowest. Never did get a line on the chart, nor a report from the Sonarman, though I asked him repeatedly. I myself at the controls could get the green light when I pointed it at the ships, but the Sonarman could not pick up from there even.

They do sink though... I got two detonations on the slow poke 16 knot one, and missed completely on hte 20 knot one... The slow one's sinking presented another new issue - lifeboats:



We borrowed Jeff-Groves lifeboats, and they were fine the last time I looked, but now they do that weirdness above on my computer... does anyone else have that happening?

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

OK, got a couple of things. CapnScurvy, I just did 3 CA Tone in a Test mission with one at 16 knots, one at 20 knots and one at 30 knots. The max speed on those vessels is 36.5 knots. I got to within 4100 yards of the fastest, and 3000 yards of the slowest. Never did get a line on the chart, nor a report from the Sonarman, though I asked him repeatedly. I myself at the controls could get the green light when I pointed it at the ships, but the Sonarman could not pick up from there even.

Propbeanie, I'm looking into the issue of the Sonarman not picking up targets. He should as long as the sub is configured with the proper equipment to receive a sound at the depth the equipment is designed for.

Although the bug of not hearing a target when its traveling at less than half its MaxSpeed is real for the Freighters, I've also seen where the Escorts and Warships don't always follow that rule of thumb. For one thing, I believe the Escorts follow a different standard when their assigned to a convoy. They may have a 36 MaxSpeed rating, but when they are assigned to "escort" duty, they take on the convoys parameters. It seems the escorts can travel below their half MaxSpeed and still be heard?!? So, there's some underlying things that seem to occur that dispel the idea ALL ships are going to follow the rule I've noted.

Again, I'm looking into it. Stay tuned!

=======

Thanks Front Runner for your report. Keep them coming!! The only way we get better is to hear what's happening, and act on what's being reported. As Dad always said: "Two heads are better than one, even if both are cabbage!"

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by xXNightEagleXx

solved by saving, quitting and reloading. Apparently the game got stuck into the launch boat window that didn't popup

Was it perhaps a speed problem? I've come in on the surface on a dark night, and when the speed slowed to 4 knots or less, got the pop up box. I postponed the launch until my speed hit zero (had to use slow reverse) and then was able to launch normally.

[torpedobait]

I find two other issues not related to the previously discussed sonar issues. I am in a Sargo Class boat, USS Sealion (SS-195) in late December 1941 and early January 1942. In two missions so far I find there is no sound from the periscope, going up or down.

Also, the general sound level is very low. My SoundBlaster Z is set to maximum volume (which would kill small animals on any other application) and the game's sound volume is set to max also. But it does not seem to produce much more than a low-medium sound volume in the latest FOTARS. The directional diesel sounds from the bridge appear to be reversed (louder when looking forward, fading out when looking to the stern. Diesel sounds also cuts out abruptly when only a short distance from the boat in an external view, instead of fading as in the past.

I also noticed that when the multiple "fire at will" acknowledgements were removed, it also removed even the single response.

Sound issues are small potatoes compared to all the major improvements you all have accomplished (love the new dials in the Sargo - brass is class!), and that this may have to put off until near the end (if there ever can truly be and end), but would like to be sure these are on the list.

[torpedobait]

Someone has apparently worked in a "fix" to the tc limit so that changing the value 2048 to a higher limit in the FOTARS Main.cfg no longer allows the tc to exceed the 2048 limit in the mod. I thought we would be allowed to do that if we chose to, but it appears that is no longer the case.

I get it that the visual acuity of Japanese gunners, even in the darkest of nights, has been improved such that they can and will damage or kill a boat before the watch crew can even see them, thus preventing the timely drop out of tc, but that is a punishment that seems pretty harsh. I would have thought that even the proximity to an enemy ship would be enough to drop out of even 8192x tc in time to spot the danger would be realistic enough. It is in TMO and SH4 1.5.

Now it appears that even running at 2048x tc is too fast to avoid major gun damage from unseen enemy ships. Seems pretty harsh, and a joy killer for me at least.

[torpedobait]

Like many math-impaired (or lazy) sailors, I use auto-targeting. New with v0.60 is losing the ability to have the crew identify (mark) a target with the characteristic caret at a distance or less than perfect visibility. Was a parameter or two changed for this?

Most times the only way I can get a good target mark is to Lock the scope on the target, and then the lock breaks more often than not. And locking is not the best solution, since it changes the torpedo depth and aiming point, which I prefer to customize.

If this was a recent change, is there any chance you could "undo" it and allow a skipper to see the target mark without having to Lock the target? I get that in bad weather or dark of night it is going to be at shorter ranges, but this happens now in good weather too.

Thanks!

[propbeanie]

torpedobait, how did you do the v0.60 / 61 update? I left my "work-in-progress" mods on the one computer, and it's got issues. The other one, I did a "clean" install (did not re-do SH4, just deleted the Save folder and cleaned out the MODS folder). Both computers, I do have Sonar issues. On the one, I've got sound issues, the other I do not.

I'm not sure when the crew not identifying a ship happened, or if it was even in there to begin with... my brain: "too much information!"...

The TC not changing after your editing of the file might be because of the Save folder - again... There are a lot of changes between the 56 & 60 versions, and the Save folder is NOT compatible between them. Then again, there might be another setting that the Capn or someone else would have to let us know about.

As to the volume level, both of my computers practically ~blast~ me out of the chair. Double-check your windows mixer versus the sound card's (if they are separate), and maybe try another mod install, with a clean Save folder. Let us know if anything changes. In the meantime, I'll check for the engine sounds being backwards on mine...

I'm going to do to my other computer what I should have done to begin with (throw it out the window, you say? - no), and that's a "freshen-up" of the game for the v0.61 mod...

[CapnScurvy]

@ torpedobait, you've rattled off a lot of concerns, I'll address your first, and a couple more:

I am in a Sargo Class boat, USS Sealion (SS-195) in late December 1941 and early January 1942. In two missions so far I find there is no sound from the periscope, going up or down.

My sound of both scopes raising/lowering works fine. No issue with the .wav file, its implementation, or volume.

I also noticed that when the multiple "fire at will" acknowledgements were removed, it also removed even the single response.

The only file changed was the "Yes Sir" repeat. "Fire at will" was not touched.

Someone has apparently worked in a "fix" to the tc limit so that changing the value 2048 to a higher limit in the FOTARS Main.cfg no longer allows the tc to exceed the 2048 limit in the mod. I thought we would be allowed to do that if we chose to, but it appears that is no longer the case.

No, we haven't change anything from the last several Beta's. Fotrs Ultimate has set the top Time Compression to 2048 several versions ago. No change in v0.60. You can still change it as you prefer...that's on you.

New with v0.60 is losing the ability to have the crew identify (mark) a target with the characteristic caret at a distance or less than perfect visibility. Was a parameter or two changed for this?

Check your "Command Buttons" along the bottom of your screen. Under the "Periscope" section, and the "Conning Deck" group you'll find an "Identify Target" button?? Also, a button to ask for the "Nearest Visual Contact" that gives Bearing and approximate Range.

If you don't have these things above....you've pooched your game!

We can't fix that.

[Front Runner]

I concur with torpedobait, the ID ship icon was missing in v.60, it was back in v.61
I will reinstall v6.0 to double check but I recall the same thing as torpedobait.

EDIT - OK I checked and did the submarine training mission on the Porpoise. The ID ship icon is present in v6.0. However, I do recall that the ID ship icon was not present the first time I installed it.
I'm going to research this a bit more, not that is of any great importance other than I noticed the same thing as torpedobait.

EDIT 2 - I tried to reproduce the missing ID ship icon but I could not. Maybe it was in V.56.....checking.....

EDIT 3- v0.56 confirmed, no ID ship icon.

Not that it matters. The ID ship icon is back in v0.60 and v0.61

Out

[Sniper450]

Did I miss something? I have 61 loaded now but the splash screen says 60 is loaded. Double checked with JSGME and it says 61.

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by Sniper450

Did I miss something? I have 61 loaded now but the splash screen says 60 is loaded. Double checked with JSGME and it says 61.

I would say, our master chief forgot to include that ingredient into the newer mix...

I'm still running v0.56 due to current active projects, and will take serveral hours to upgrade several project folders to v0.61..

[propbeanie]

In order to get the opening graphic the way it is, the "Introl_logo_elem.dds" file isn't used, else there wouldn't be any "Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate" text in there where it is... Therefore, the background picture itself has to be hand-edited in a photoshop-type app each time. I'm sure RR is anticipating a few more updates to come across the wire in the next couple-three days, and then he'll do the chore of updating the load picture file... Besides in JSGME, another way to tell the difference between v60 and 61 is to look in the Data / Roster / Japan / Sea folder at the BBKongo.cfg file, and see if the "UnitType=" line is set to "11", which is v0.61, or "UnitType=19", which is v0.60, and will CTD the game when encountered...