Change log for 1.07

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

It's a conjectural 'field mod' conventional Mk45 inspired by the Freedom torpedo. In game it uses the Mk14 warhead along with a Mk37 guidance package. Could make it a none wireguided homer so it's more like a SET-65.

Usually I hate "what if" equipment in sim games but this actually seems plausible in a hypothetical shooting war back then. Both torpedoes are 19" and designed for swim out, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could physically bolt the pieces together from a 37 and a 45.

I can understand losing the wire guidance from a gameplay standpoint but both weapons had it, so I'm not sure what's best there... Then again whatever decision is made can be modded the other way anyhow.

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Usually I hate "what if" equipment in sim games but this actually seems plausible in a hypothetical shooting war back then. Both torpedoes are 19" and designed for swim out, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could physically bolt the pieces together from a 37 and a 45.

I can understand losing the wire guidance from a gameplay standpoint but both weapons had it, so I'm not sure what's best there... Then again whatever decision is made can be modded the other way anyhow.

Yes, it's only reasonable. In the event of an actual war with the Soviet Union in the 1960s, I doubt the US Navy would've tolerated such a stark contrast in torpedo performance with its adversary.

Looks to me the Mk 37 is very much a "peacetime torpedo".

Thing is, would there be any restrictions to Mk 45 inventories? Anything to prevent it from completely replacing the Mk 37 in-game?

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Yes, it's only reasonable. In the event of an actual war with the Soviet Union in the 1960s, I doubt the US Navy would've tolerated such a stark contrast in torpedo performance with its adversary.

Looks to me the Mk 37 is very much a "peacetime torpedo".

Thing is, would there be any restrictions to Mk 45 inventories? Anything to prevent it from completely replacing the Mk 37 in-game?

I'd say it depends on how you look at it, production #s I think they made around 500 MK 45s which doesn't seem like a small number, but when you think of spreading that out to the whole navy, and then wonder how tolerant they are going to be when it comes to giving up tactical nuclear weapon capacity, during war-time no less.

I'm not sure if this is something that could be done easily but I'd love to see a logistics feature, you would figure that something like this (or a rushed Mk 37C) would have been available in very low numbers.

The other thing I'd point out with the 37C, it was intended to be produced and sent to the Navy as kits and installed on existing Mk37s by Navy Personnel at bases and even aboard tenders (in contrast with sending the weapon back to the vendor to be re-manufactured and upgraded).

[PurpleCow]

Originally Posted by cj95

Did everyone just gloss over this part?
Combat
Direct telegraph and set course via map waypoint added
Set depth, periscope depth and emergency blow toolbar added
dictionary_message_log.txt added:

How does one go about setting a waypoint or depth on the map display?

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Originally Posted by PurpleCow

How does one go about setting a waypoint or depth on the map display?

Presumably the same way you fire a torpedo but with a different key bind?

This looks juicy Those navigational features will sure be handy.

Just a little niggle. Several ships are discribed as Rocket ships, shouldn't that say as Guided-missile cruiser etc?

[Julhelm]

The Soviet 'rocket ship' concept is very different from the typical western 'guided missile cruiser'.

The Soviet ships are designed as primarily anti-surface units, with long-range anti-ship cruise missiles, while western guided missile cruisers have a primarily air defence mission.

Originally Posted by Julhelm

The Soviet 'rocket ship' concept is very different from the typical western 'guided missile cruiser'.

The Soviet ships are designed as primarily anti-surface units, with long-range anti-ship cruise missiles, while western guided missile cruisers have a primarily air defence mission.

Ok, taget Never seen it labled like that befor.

Thank you for this gem of a game, its like being 14 y/o again in the best possible way

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by cj95

Did everyone just gloss over this part?




Combat
Direct telegraph and set course via map waypoint added
Set depth, periscope depth and emergency blow toolbar added
dictionary_message_log.txt added:

NavigationWaypointInfo=Set Course HEADING: <BRG> NavigationSetCourse=Conn, new course set, heading <BRG> NavigationSetDepth=Conn, changing depth to <DEPTH> <FEET> NavigationSetPeriscopeDepth=Conn, coming to periscope depth NavigationLevelOut=Conn, leveling the boat



Not really what I wanted personally, but I do gather that most of the community will be happy about it.

My sentiments exactly ... here it comes, automated steering... on the plus side, if they dare put that stuff in, I assume it means they are confident in the AI's depth-keeping, so if this is a step towards making the AI use depth more violently and confidently...

Originally Posted by Shadow

Yes, it's only reasonable. In the event of an actual war with the Soviet Union in the 1960s, I doubt the US Navy would've tolerated such a stark contrast in torpedo performance with its adversary.

Frankly, it is completely unrealistic and cannot be defended as anything other than an easy/cheat-mode in the 1968 environment.

Isn't the plot that it is the SOVIETS that are suddenly attacking the Americans? Why then would the Americans be able to suddenly have the advantage (isn't having superior silencing enough) of superior torpedoes (SET-65 class performance, slightly better seeking, and wire guidance)?

I understand a lot of people are struggling to put those useless Mark 37s against submarines (it doesn't help that I've modded my Novembers up to 31 knots), but still, surely the solution isn't to hand out another crutch.

If we are to have this torpedo, can we at least give it some real weaknesses? Maybe the seeker sensitivity can be only something like 300m as a "speed-penalty" to what must have been a very similar seeker to the Mark 37, which will make it a useful toy while not quite rendering the original torpedoes irrelevant?

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Frankly, it is completely unrealistic and cannot be defended as anything other than an easy/cheat-mode in the 1968 environment.

For sure. Those of us who prefer realism will have to ignore its existence.

[Delgard]

Realism is more challenging.

[LeopardDriver]

Actually I made the Mk 45 for myself several weeks ago. I gave it a conventional warhead (that can be done in conflict time), made it quick but with a short range. And it has close to no homing function, so you have to steer in manually into the target. That works pretty well for me. Also I never have more than four in my ships.

[Julhelm]

I personally like more options. The problem with US torpedoes of the period is that while they run from Mk27 through Mk48, almost all of them are crap or did not enter service. You could use tactical nukes in Strike Fighters, but they were always an 'I win'-button. I found it was much more interesting to try out things like fitting AIM-9's to the F-101's and see how they handled against the migs.

One option for the Mk45 to make it more tactically interesting would be giving it a Mk37 mod 0 guidance package, which is essentially an active/passive homer with no wire guidance capability.

At times I wonder if we should move to a renown system similar to SH that lets you 'buy' the appropriate weapons for your boat within what you can afford. If you want better stuff, have to earn it. While more realistic, the current time penalty doesn't really impose the same restrictions.

Strike Fighters had the option to play as mercenaries, where you literally had to earn your weapons, learning to use the cheaper weapons while attacking targets of opportunity to earn more money with which to buy better kit. I would like to introduce some similar mode to CW down the line, to provide a 'long war' alternative to the shorter realistic campaigns.

[lordroel]

I am wonder will the Soviet Mil Mi-14 (Haze) Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) helicopter be land based ore deployed on board a ship as it is much larger than the Kamov Ka-27 ASW helicopter.

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by Julhelm

I personally like more options. The problem with US torpedoes of the period is that while they run from Mk27 through Mk48, almost all of them are crap or did not enter service. You could use tactical nukes in Strike Fighters, but they were always an 'I win'-button. I found it was much more interesting to try out things like fitting AIM-9's to the F-101's and see how they handled against the migs.

One option for the Mk45 to make it more tactically interesting would be giving it a Mk37 mod 0 guidance package, which is essentially an active/passive homer with no wire guidance capability.

At times I wonder if we should move to a renown system similar to SH that lets you 'buy' the appropriate weapons for your boat within what you can afford. If you want better stuff, have to earn it. While more realistic, the current time penalty doesn't really impose the same restrictions.

Strike Fighters had the option to play as mercenaries, where you literally had to earn your weapons, learning to use the cheaper weapons while attacking targets of opportunity to earn more money with which to buy better kit. I would like to introduce some similar mode to CW down the line, to provide a 'long war' alternative to the shorter realistic campaigns.

Renown could probably work very well but, personally I'm more in favor of like game-controlled unlock system (instead of deciding to spend X amount of points for this thing you want which costs Y the game just gives you access to things once you pass certain milestones, although then you still have the problem of how to deal with cost/scarcity of individual items. There's also the issue of availability (i.e. not "right away" but maybe a month or so in).

I like the "mk 37 mod 0" idea because that's probably the simplest "off-the-shelf" sensor that was available and they'd probably have surplus parts for those since many of them were being converted to Mod 3s. There would be a notable speed hit though going to a heavy Mk 16 torpedo (760 lbs. in the Mod 9 Variant which I'm going to assume what would be in use in 68 vs. the 311 pound weight of the W-34 warhead.) but I think that the MK 37 unit would be pretty much right at home at 330 lbs (pretty sure that's what was going to be used in the "Freedom Torpedo" as well.

I'd still wager that the Mk 37C would probably perform better (longer range and better guidance as compared to the 45's higher top-speed) and be built from similar off-the shelf parts (probably quite a few Mk 46 torpedos kicking around, other than fabricating the mounts for the -46 sourced parts that was basically it as far as propulsion was concerned for the C, although the C did have a different guidance package) but that may not be a good thing.