[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Hitman

... Any chance of getting Nisgeis radar mod as compatible plug-in?

Originally Posted by Hitman

Yes that is the one I was referring to. It worked for Gato and derivates that shared that interior (You can force all subs to use one interior, but the Gato one looks out of place in the S-class or Porpoise f.e.), and it was a sim inside the sim. It would be awesome to have it as option plug in for those submarines. For the rest and as default, I guess CaptnScurvy will go with the range scales painted in the radar screen, which is the most operative solution...

For those attempting to integrate it in a mod, in my current FotRS Ultimate betav.1, it changes:

1. "NSS_Gato_CT.dat" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
2. "NSS_Gato_CT.sim" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
3. "Cameras.dat" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
4. "Sensors_sub_US.sim" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
5. "Common_TDC_Gauges_01.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
6. "etichete.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
7. "Range Unit AO.tga" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
8. "Range Unit Labels.tga" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
9. "TDC_Dials.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.

and the <F9> keypress gets you:

That is a slightly distorted view, since I turned the view a bit to the right. Behind the user are the actual radar screens, but since they're inactive on my boat for now, why bother?...

Shades of SH1, only bigger, prettier & better... But I'd wait to see what CapnScurvy comes out with for the "core" first...

[Rockin Robbins]

I would also ask CapnScurvy to go through those changes to files and ensure that they don't change our game settings. Some compatible mods are only compatible if you define compatible as "your game won't crash."

[max-peck]

Ah yes

I do remember Nsiegis trying to give us a working TDC, and also a way of sending our radar range to the TDC

Was mighty good work

Ducimus incorporated it into TMO either 2.0 or 2.5
Because it was that good

The catch was - it only worked in boats that used the GATO interior

Was still an excellent mod

If some one could figure out a way of working Nsiegis Radar work into FOTRSU that would be awesome

[Jeff-Groves]

Packed my gear and re-located to Warren, Ohio for about a week long spell of breaking stuff.

propbeanie,

coefficient is a numerical or constant quantity placed before and multiplying the variable in an algebraic expression.
So I'd say it's not a percentage.

[max-peck]

You don't need to follow me! You don't need to follow anybody! You got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals! You're all different!

I'm not...

[CapnScurvy]

I'd like to look at the TDC, but I'm up to my ears in going through the sensors for the sub.

I've got the Visuals for the sub to work as I like....there are two different visuals the sub uses. One for the watch crew when the subs surfaced; one for the periscopes (attack; observation or "night" scope in FOTRS; and the later "radar" scope) when the sub is submerged. I'm following the "First Contact" report that Double R posted regarding getting a basic idea of what the sub Captains reported when finding targets. Some of the reports state they found visual targets at 35 to 40,000 yards distance!! Well....maybe in your dreams. I think the CO2 must have been pretty high with some of those reports of distances. Anyway, the game won't come close to giving you that visual distance, so I'm working with what I can.....about a 20,000 yard maximum distance. I've set the visual environment to allow for us to "see" that far, so when a crewman says he's seeing a target, so will you when you go topside to look with binoculars or using the periscope.

Something I'm running into with the active Sonar is it seems the passive Hydrophone is setup directly with the Sonar in giving a targets position. There is only one Sonar in the .sim file, yet if I delete all Hydrophone parameters.....there's no active sonar. The Sonarman is deaf as a post in locating targets without the hydrophones working.....even though none of the test targets are making noise. Their all stationary!! I'll need to look at things again to make sure of this, but it seems those Navigation Map lines showing sonar contacts are really hydrophone contacts that aren't coming from sound emissions. I don't get it either, but that's what I'm finding.

Radar will be next up after the sonar/hydrophone rework.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Packed my gear and re-located to Warren, Ohio for about a week long spell of breaking stuff.

propbeanie,

coefficient is a numerical or constant quantity placed before and multiplying the variable in an algebraic expression.
So I'd say it's not a percentage.

Ooh... in the Ash-tab-u-ler slash Youngstown slash Akron triangle... Real close to the heart of my old railroad area from Cleveland to Erie... Ahh yesh, I remember it well... and then you ruin my revelry in my old working days with that nasty "algebraic" word... yet we're adding physics into the equation, in the guise of interaction of fake "boats" with fake "water"...

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I'd like to look at the TDC, but I'm up to my ears in going through the sensors for the sub.

I've got the Visuals for the sub to work as I like....there are two different visuals the sub uses...

The TDC will be influenced by what you do with the sensors AND your interior re-working, correct? I can go through the different files and notate some of the changes, and would love to be able to start on re-doing it, but I'd be lost once I got past the xcel spreadsheet... - I'll start taking apart the front panel, and see what's inside...

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

I'd like to look at the TDC, but I'm up to my ears in going through the sensors for the sub.

I've got the Visuals for the sub to work as I like....there are two different visuals the sub uses. One for the watch crew when the subs surfaced; one for the periscopes (attack; observation or "night" scope in FOTRS; and the later "radar" scope) when the sub is submerged. I'm following the "First Contact" report that Double R posted regarding getting a basic idea of what the sub Captains reported when finding targets. Some of the reports state they found visual targets at 35 to 40,000 yards distance!! Well....maybe in your dreams. I think the CO2 must have been pretty high with some of those reports of distances. Anyway, the game won't come close to giving you that visual distance, so I'm working with what I can.....about a 20,000 yard maximum distance. I've set the visual environment to allow for us to "see" that far, so when a crewman says he's seeing a target, so will you when you go topside to look with binoculars or using the periscope.

Something I'm running into with the active Sonar is it seems the passive Hydrophone is setup directly with the Sonar in giving a targets position. There is only one Sonar in the .sim file, yet if I delete all Hydrophone parameters.....there's no active sonar. The Sonarman is deaf as a post in locating targets without the hydrophones working.....even though none of the test targets are making noise. Their all stationary!! I'll need to look at things again to make sure of this, but it seems those Navigation Map lines showing sonar contacts are really hydrophone contacts that aren't coming from sound emissions. I don't get it either, but that's what I'm finding.

Radar will be next up after the sonar/hydrophone rework.

Yes, the TDC is for after we've released. I just don't want it to take your sensors and toss them in the trash as RSRDC does for TMO, RFB or stock. I don't want any plugin to make unannounced changes, so the player is always aware of his sensors, weapons, enemy AI and all other settings. It's the only way we can say that the player is in charge of his game.

Core mod work comes first. I'd like this core mod ready for prime time as early as possible and we don't release until it is. THEN the plugins take the stage!

I just want to say what a great play that was finding the dozens of hunter-killer groups so we could eliminate them from the core to make a plugin out of them. They would have hunted and killed FOTRS Ultimate! And what a great plugin they will be!

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

For those attempting to integrate it in a mod, in my current FotRS Ultimate betav.1, it changes:

1. "NSS_Gato_CT.dat" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
2. "NSS_Gato_CT.sim" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
3. "Cameras.dat" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
4. "Sensors_sub_US.sim" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
5. "Common_TDC_Gauges_01.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
6. "etichete.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
7. "Range Unit AO.tga" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
8. "Range Unit Labels.tga" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.
9. "TDC_Dials.dds" has already been altered by the "100 FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v.1Beta_EN" mod.

Only the first four items will be of any concern. The others are graphics changes. Won't be difficult to sort this one out.

Our only concern with cameras.dat is CapnScurvy's pitching deck on dive and ascent. The others are Gato Conning Tower changes, probably inserting the new graphical elements Those most likely won't break FOTRS Ultimate either, but it all has to be verified.

[propbeanie]

I already activated it in one of my FotRS U installs, and everything is fine, other than the fact that I haven't taken the time to either noodle in the settings and actually activate me some radar, or finish enough of a campaign to qualify for radar, prior to me, my crew and boat's demise... 'Course, starting a new career every time I turn around doesn't help that cause... - When I say "fine", I mean no CTD, and the game plays fine. I have no idea what it does to the actual workings with any changes to the sensors' settings etc., and the fact that you can't see the rest of the over-written room now...

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

The TDC will be influenced by what you do with the sensors AND your interior re-working, correct?

No, not at all.

The interior work is done. No more changes then what's already been added in the FOTRS 0.1Beta. I do have a small change to the menu_1024_768.ini file to try to make the binocular compass stay at the top of the view when using larger monitor resolutions...but that's about all for that file.

The sensors have no effect on a working TDC/Position Keeper (I always think of the Position Keeper as the TDC....just in condensed form). With manual targeting, the sensors give you data to input into the TDC, but that's about the extent of their connection. Auto-targeting uses a completely different way of figuring a firing solution...that's why when you target a ship and the PK reads 3246 yards to target.....it's nuts on accurate!

Speaking of sensors, this Sonar issue I'm running across has but a couple of explanations. Either the sub I'm using doesn't have its sonar sensor set up correctly, or the sonar sensor is switched with the hydrophone sensor behind the scenes in the hard coded files. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out their switched (Hydrophone for Sonar).....after all we've all seen the switch the stock game has between going to the A-Scope Radar screen after hitting the PPI station button.

I will admit one thing about the sub I'm using that doesn't make sense. In my test mission I'm in mid 1945, using a Balao in the mission setup. In-game I'm in a Gar!?! Where's the Balao? It's not even offered at the single mission startup screen? Has FOTRS done something with the Balao entry dates? Just another head scratcher if you ask me.

[propbeanie]

I'll look into that. I hadn't noticed, but I don't usually ask for a Balao anyway, although I have had one in some of the single missions... which ones though... ?? In the meantime, as you describe the sonar stuff that you're encountering, I've had that in the Gato and the Gar boats that I recall, including in a Gar just the day before, in a mission I made myself for when I was testing the crash dive sequence. I put one single merchant in the mission, 20k out, so that there was an attainable objective, and I decided to go find it and sink it directly, knowing of course, where the ship would be. As I headed that way, I got a sonar tail WAY out. I was more than a little surprised, and have no idea how it did that, since I was doing either flank or full. I hit the "report nearest contact" button, and started getting incessant reports. Way too many reports followed... But, I slowed down to standard to begin the tracking process, thinking that I must be close already, and then the tail up and disappeared for about 5 minutes. I slowed to 1/3 at the start of that stretch, thinking that I was making too much noise going through the water. But never got the sonar back. So I changed direction a pinch and went back up to Ahead Full, and about 30 seconds later, there's the sonar tail again. When I got a "visual" on the ship finally about five minutes later, I could not see it at all. I used the look-outs report of 42 degrees, pointed the scope there, and got a lock. Still couldn't see it in the scope, but there it was on the chart. Then the sonar tail went away again for like another five minutes. A little odd...

[CapnScurvy]

Propbeanie, I'm going to say that your "visual" experience will be different after I'm done.

I also ran into the lack of actually seeing a target when the crew is telling me "there she blows"!! I increased the visibility parameters for the views and now have them set to allow a target at 20,000 yards to be seen by you the Captain, and by the crew. The objects further away will be obscured by fog and limited to the subs AI maximum visual setting (the crew won't spot targets that aren't able to be "seen"). I would have liked to have the visual setting at a further distance......25,000+ yards maximum, but the game won't allow for a ship to be seen at that distance. At 20,000 yards the target is barely seen by only its superstructure (the game allows for targets to "sit lower" in the horizon at those distances....they did good on that one!). So, I think the visuals are about right. I'll still need to look at the "modifiers" that are in the Sensors.cfg file for "Light" modifiers, or "Wave" modifiers. but the basic visual sensors should work better now for the sub and its crew.

Those other things you've run into like the sonar losing its target may have something to do with the modifiers too. Or something like what I'm experiencing with the sonar not picking up a stationary target. I can understand that the hydrophone won't pick it up....but not the sonar?!?

[propbeanie]

CapnScurvy, the SSBalao.cfg in FotRS UvAlpha.1 is different...

[UnitClass]
ClassName=SSBalao
UnitType=200
AppearanceDate=19430204
DisappearanceDate=19750612
DisplayName=US Balao

... all that and the texture maps are the same. The two texture maps switch between 05/04-05/1944.

The differences are for the first seven individual units. They start the distribution on 19430101 (prior to the units availability), instead of the stock's 19430204 and then progress the same from there. Unit 8, the USS Capelin SS-289 is available 0604. Then they progress again as in stock. I have no idea how the actual arrival "in theatre" influences the time factor in the ME. Is it dependent upon how far West of Mare Island you are?

The way things end up being with the sensors doesn't matter to me, so long as they're useable but ~consistent~ - consistent being key - unless they're "modeling" bad tubes, or a moth getting stuck in the circuitry... tic - I'm actually happier in a sugar boat without *any* radar, since I can come and go with impunity at home base, no radar interrupting... However, the relative "comfort" of a deep Balao definitely helps when there's boom-boom coming down on you...

btw, that experience above with the Gar, I was on the surface... getting hydraphone contact - while doing Full & Flank...

Almost forgot to mention, I've uploaded an RTF file in the WIP / Propbeanie Speadsheets folder of the Google drive, named FotRSu ThreadNotes.rtf. It's got notes on the first 40 pages of this thread, just little comments on some of the previous posts to help sort out the progression. It's taking much longer to review this than I thought it would... - my plan is to "catch up" to this point, and continue from there daily. I think I'm losing ground though... sort of like one of those life-rafts in the game...
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