[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

That's how the game works. The Navigation Map doesn't just show only visual contacts....made by the Crew Watch standing on the Bridge. Planes detected solely by Radar will show there too. After all, before a working/usable SJ PPI Radar screen was put into the game, the stock games idea of how to show an SD plane contact was to put it onto the Navigation Map as you described. As long as you're at Radar Depth, with the SD Radar turned "On", you'll get a Navigation Map displaying the planes where abouts.

I'm changing some things with the SJ Radar to produce the proper "blip" for a plane on the PPI/A-Scope radar screens. I allowed some of FOTRS's old parameters to get into the radar files (I was trying to oblige them with letting their parameters stay intact) but, that's a mistake. Their Radar parameters don't allow for the SJ to pick up planes....they will in the next update.

I was thinking on this scenario........you're at Radar Depth, no Watch crew on the bridge, your periscope isn't extended, so no Watch Officer looking through the scope to ID things. OR, Are they??

Its occurred to me that when you're at Radar Depth, your periscope is above water. Yes, it can still be retracted down in its shielded housing, yet the scope node for visual sensor detection can still be above water. It makes no difference if you can see out of the scope or not, the AI is triggered by where the sensor is in relationship to the water line. Its a stock game characteristic come to think of it.

Jldjs, you didn't mention if the Message Text box displayed something like "Watch Officer: Contact Bla Bla Bla, Bla Bla" or if there was a message from the "Radioman/Radarman: Contact Bla Bla Bla....". This would tell us which sensor did the contact detection (either the Radar or visual Watch crew)...leastwise it would tell us the first sensor that detected the contact. Once a detection has been made, all others sensor detection's are ignored when it comes to the Message Text. The node for the AI Visual Sensor on the periscopes rides up and down with the scope. That's how you can get a contact from your Watch Officer if the scope(s) is above water, yet you're at periscope depth...no crew on the bridge. The trouble is this stock game didn't expect us to make a modded Radar Depth command that puts the scopes visual detector node above water, even though the scopes retracted....sensing all!?!

I'll look further into this, I think this is what happened, even though my original explanation about the SD Radar is still true. I think there might be more to the story then first thought.

========

Something along these lines occurred to me the other day regarding the Radar. I couldn't help to notice my SJ Radar screen would blink/turn off while at Radar Depth. The winds were blowing about 5 kts so the sea wasn't calm, not terribly bad, but not still either. The waves were cresting over the radar sensor node, causing the PPI and A-Scope stations to turn off (the water line thing). I'll have to adjust these nodes too I think. Radar Depth for all subs runs about 45 ft deep. 2/3rds of Periscope Depth. At this depth you won't be picked up by enemy visuals. However, when I tried to raise the subs depth so the Radar sensor node is above the cresting water line....went to about 30 ft depth.......the enemy spotted me, and I'm in for a fight. So, I'll be looking at this too. One of the issues with this is that each sub is different in its submerged characteristics, yet the visual sensor parameters are all one and the same....one size fits all. What works well for one sub can be bad for another.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

No not too high. All subs should have the SJ Surface Search Radar installed on June 1, 1942...including the Gar. By October 1942 you should start seeing an offer to purchase the SJ-1 Improved Radar for 500 Renown. It will drop in price a few months later, then automatically be installed on all boats by June 1, 1943, replacing the original SJ.

I just finished looking at the Gar .sns (sensor) file....it should follow this very date sequence.

Can you tell me what "Modified Date:" the Submarine/NSS_Gar/NSS_Gar.sns and NSS_Gar.upc files are in your SH4 game? Have the FOTRS Ultimate v0.56 "Activated" through JSGME into your SH4 game.

Modified date for the SNS file is 3/4/17; it is 3/24/17 for the UPC file because I tried a change (see below) yesterday. The original date is also 3/4/17. FOTARS Ultimate v0.56 is activated through JSGME since this latest career start. After the sixth patrol and back at Midway in August, 1942, I checked the UPC file for the GAR and it indeed showed a start date of 6/1/42, ending 5/31/43, with the upgraded SJ available starting 6/1/43. I tried to change it by setting the 6/1/42 start date to NULL, but after loading the saved game starting in the office before the seventh patrol, the radar was still not available. Have not tried to find the .sns file yet, but I'll look at it. Very strange, eh?

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

Modified date for the SNS file is 3/4/17; it is 3/24/17 for the UPC file because I tried a change (see below) yesterday. The original date is also 3/4/17. FOTARS Ultimate v0.56 is activated through JSGME since this latest career start. After the sixth patrol and back at Midway in August, 1942, I checked the UPC file for the GAR and it indeed showed a start date of 6/1/42, ending 5/31/43, with the upgraded SJ available starting 6/1/43. I tried to change it by setting the 6/1/42 start date to NULL, but after loading the saved game starting in the office before the seventh patrol, the radar was still not available. Have not tried to find the .sns file yet, but I'll look at it. Very strange, eh?

Yes, its strange. Those two files I asked about should both show a "Modified Date:" of 3/4/17 as you say they have.

I ran a test start from Pearl in a Gar "Mid 1942".....that starts you on June 6, 1942 in the Captains Office. On this date the Gar has a working SJ Radar "On Boat" and is operational when in the mission. It would seem the issue is in your upgrading of a previous boat, or in the "saves" of your progress/Campaign. Neither of those have I changed, or would even know if FOTRS messed with these files from stock. I would have to study the process. The fact that stock "saved" games have never been trouble free could be the factor.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Yes, its strange. Those two files I asked about should both show a "Modified Date:" of 3/4/17 as you say they have.

I ran a test start from Pearl in a Gar "Mid 1942".....that starts you on June 6, 1942 in the Captains Office. On this date the Gar has a working SJ Radar "On Boat" and is operational when in the mission. It would seem the issue is in your upgrading of a previous boat, or in the "saves" of your progress/Campaign. Neither of those have I changed, or would even know if FOTRS messed with these files from stock. I would have to study the process. The fact that stock "saved" games have never been trouble free could be the factor.

The fact that I have never been offered a new boat bothers me too, and may be related somehow. Usually by the end of the third patrol, assuming a reasonable tonnage and the date, a new boat is forthcoming. Once on a previous iteration (v0.52 perhaps) it was after the fourth patrol, which may have also been time related. Anyway, it remains a mystery.

As for my Saved Games, I usually take a Save once I get 60 NM out of port, Midway in this case, and subsequent Saves during the mission as appropriate. However, upon entering port, I apply promotions, medals, and equipment upgrades, and then Save as "date-in-yy-mm-dd format", followed by "In Port, Midway". I reload that to ensure the Save was successful, delete the interim Saves from the last completed patrol, leaving only a string of "Departed Midway" and "In Port, Midway" saves except for the current patrol. I then launch the patrol, etc. So, after reaching port, the only Save files I can reload are either when I arrived in port, or just after leaving port at the 60 NM point. This is exactly the procedures I follow since my early SH3-GWX days. Don't know if there is a nugget in there or not, frankly. Time for a beer - our beloved UK Wildcats lost to SC tonight. A sad day in Kentucky.

[Lt commander lare]

Hi i just watched a program on the Yamato and they talked about Truk Lagoon is there a a way we can make it a very dangerous place to visit but a reward if u are able to penetrate and get inside i would like to see a huge naval base there in Fotrs if possible.

I also did a war patrol
Earlier the new Beta version is awesome.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Lt commander lare

Hi i just watched a program on the Yamato and they talked about Truk Lagoon is there a a way we can make it a very dangerous place to visit but a reward if u are able to penetrate and get inside i would like to see a huge naval base there in Fotrs if possible.

I also did a war patrol
Earlier the new Beta version is awesome.

Oh boy............. I guess you haven't been reading our "Private Messages" we've been sending back and forth to each other!

We've been having quite a time trying to get Truk to preform as expected. I'm suspecting Lt Cmd you haven't been there yet? If you had during the right time period, you'd find Truk is very well represented in authenticity. Truk is one of the places that spawns an enormous amount of ships.....on top of each other. And, they pile up too coming in. The sea bed is very shallow, leaving no room for error for ships that have a large draft, or boats that can function submerged like a sub.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Oh boy............. I guess you haven't been reading our "Private Messages" we've been sending back and forth to each other!

We've been having quite a time trying to get Truk to preform as expected. I'm suspecting Lt Cmd you haven't been there yet? If you had during the right time period, you'd find Truk is very well represented in authenticity. Truk is one of the places that spawns an enormous amount of ships.....on top of each other. And, they pile up too coming in. The sea bed is very shallow, leaving no room for error for ships that have a large draft, or boats that can function submerged like a sub.

... and we are working on it. However, at this time, we'll probably add some deeper water in spots at Truk (courtesy of our private contract with ACE - Army Corp of Engineers - just not the US version - FotRSU... ahem), to facilitate the flow of the traffic that is currently in the mod. We will incorporate some of Carotio's Truk mod, in his docks and cities, etc., but we'll be leaving out the "reef" representations. We have also found that the AntiSubmarineNets commit an awful, foul "sound" of screeching the "Collision_AntiSubmarineNet_int.wav" file at full volume whenever your boat gets within 20km of any of the subnets that have been added "by hand" to the game. There are a LOT of those around Truk. They will be removed...

Entirely too many multi-column Task Force and Convoy groups were routed through the Truk Lagoon area, and most of them with the "Stop-and-Go" technique employed, which would create a 100+ vessel backlog of vessels, all staring at each other, and / or crashing into each other, and / or backing into each other, causing a major drag on computer resources if your boat got anywhere near the area, sometimes even resulting in a CTD... The convoys would often run into the minefields and subnets surrounding Truk, almost like no consideration was ever given to the shallow water, mines, subnets or reefs that surrounded the area... A submarine cannot operate in the area. On the surface, the gun emplacements get you, and fast. There is nowhere to hide underwater in a lot of places there. You can't even make periscope depth...

This has been partially "fixed" in v56, but more remains to do to somewhat alleviate the load in the area. In the meantime, as far as a "historical" location of the Yamato and Musashi, we might try, but no promises. We'd have to find all the other uses of those particular ships during the times they were at Truk, and you'd almost ~have~ to include their coming and going at Truk, along with the commensurate "Ultra" intercept... We'll see. We've gotta fix it first though... If you go there now, you will be greeted by the AntiSubmarineNets and their screaming banshee cry... be prepared to be startled. If you do manage to get in the lagoon, at this time, there are some easy pickings to be had, because there is still a lot of ships standing around, staring at each other -IF- you can get in. Who cares about gettin' out?...

[Lt commander lare]

Thank you for the replies I will avoid the area Glad to see you all are on it haven't been on for a couple of days been super busy you guys are all amazing what ever you do from this point on is amazing you all have done super amazing jobs I know you have more to do but just amazing so far.

[propbeanie]

Thanks for the "amazing" compliment. 'perciate ya... In the meantime, you can go there, just be ready for anything from the noise to a CTD... If you happen by one of the entrances at the right time, traffic backs up fast, and makes for some interesting shooting and chasing. You shoot, they chase...

[Lt commander lare]

On my way will report back with a clean sweep.

[zeus]

is there in v56 more CTDs that in Truk or not known?

[Rockin Robbins]

Most probably fewer CTDs than before. Propbeanie has done some work there to clean it up but mostly to figure out how the whole area works. CapnScurvy is on it too.

It looks like the original game devs had big plans for the Truk area and Ubi said "hand in all your work NOW, you're done." It's a major problem with all drink coaster games where there is no value past a few months influx of money from initial sales. They have no clue how to build and maintain a team to work a franchise. They didn't in 2007 and they still haven't learned a thing in 2017.

[propbeanie]

That almost has to be what happened RR. We're finding similar stuff on the "German" side of the game, where it looks like the UBM Add-on had "after-thought" in there also...

zeus, the next version we come out with will have even more changes to the Truk area, as well as a split Jap_HarborTraffic file, elmination of AntiSubmarineNets, due to an incomplete implementation of those in the game. The traffic pattern in v56 is different from v55, though we didn't really fully comprehend the ~why~ there was so much in there at one time. That part of the problem came about most likely in either TMO v1.7, or the original FotRS, when they did the really slow waypoint speeds. Imagine a 30 ship TaskForce, looping back upon itself in the middle of Truk Lagoon basically stopping, which would take up about 10 nm of single file, and there's a 15 ship merchant Convoy in there at the same time, doing similar. Here comes a 3rd convoy, with nowhere to go... That's what will be fixed for the next go-round. No more stopping at Truk for these "fleets". They'll just pass right on through, or terminate / spawn there.

[Lt commander lare]

Sorry for the Late Report had City Council meeting tonight I sailed right into Truk encountered the Loud sound but that gave me a clue I was near the nets was there for about 5 hours sank a couple of Destroyers and no TC drop or CTD either smooth sailing left the area and proceeded to area 7 Known as the Bungo Straits.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Lt commander lare

Sorry for the Late Report had City Council meeting tonight I sailed right into Truk encountered the Loud sound but that gave me a clue I was near the nets was there for about 5 hours sank a couple of Destroyers and no TC drop or CTD either smooth sailing left the area and proceeded to area 7 Known as the Bungo Straits.

That's great to hear your report....thank you!

Little by little we're finding/changing issues that we hope will make for better game play. The sub nets just don't work as expected (the stock game left them out for a reason), we're trying to expand the games playability by either fixing (if we can) problem features, or following the stock game approach by preventing their use. Sub nets are a nice feature, but if they weren't fully implemented, it serves no purpose to use them.

Propbeanie has become our "in house" expert on all things Campaign Mission related. Without having a "Developers Play Book" available to know what each parameter does and why, he's had to figure out things the old fashion way....trial and error! Most folks don't realize how many hours and hours are wasted on just making a change in the game files, and waiting on the game to load, just to see what it does?! I've been at this for 10 years, I bet 5 years of my time spent has been just sitting/staring at the computer, waiting on it to load the game.

Great work propbeanie!!