Question about Deck Guns in SH4

[BarracudaUAK]

I did a search for several different phrases along the lines of 2 deck guns, but found nothing.

I would keep searching, but it's time for work, so I'll just ask instead.


The "Museum" in SH4 shows the Balao with dual 5/25 deck guns.

Is this possible with SH4 on any boat?

Or is it a glitch?

it did it in 1.3, and I just installed 1.5 and it still shows the Balao with 2 deck guns, and 2 AA on the tower....

Barracuda

[fireftr18]

In game, the Balao had two guns in late war. I'm not sure what date the upgrade came. If you get a Balao in early way, it won't have two guns.

[BarracudaUAK]

ok, thanks for the info.

I looked at the .dat and .sim files for several boats earlier today and noticed a "M01" and "M02", but I wasn't sure if it was just to be able to swap the mounting location or not.

This gives me even more incentive to start blasting even more tonnage with the deck gun.

Thanks again fireftr18.

Barracuda

[Rockin Robbins]

"I don't care whether you mount the deck gun fore or aft, so long as you put it on wheels so I can chuck it overboard."

Sam Dealey
SS-257
USS Harder

[BarracudaUAK]

I've noticed that you've quoted that several times in other threads...


I will say this:

As long as my submarine is reliant on the surface (i.e. diesel powered), I want a deck gun available.

And I don't care how difficult it is made, I WILL find the "you can't do that" for the game and I WILL do it, sucessfully.

Even if it is considered "wrong", "dumb", or "why the heck would you do that"?

In my experience, the more unpredictable your course of action is, the better off you will be. AND the more unfavorable, and therefore the less 'popular' (i.e. risky) your course of action is, the greater the odds of success, because your opponent isn't expecting you to do that because it is "suicide".
(especially with "brain dead" to "extremely dumb" AI.)


Rocking Robbins, I took no offense from your post,
nor do I intend any with mine.

As much as I like reading about history, and looking at the way things were done, and equipment used, I've always wondered 'what if'. It isn't enough to simply know that 'it worked', or 'how' it worked, but 'how do we make it work better'.

As far as games (or sims) are concerned, I always play them "as is".
Some consider it "gaming the game", but then again, playing "dead is dead" and then starting a new game is also "gaming the game". Because you know more than you did last time.

In SH3 I try to pick off the DDs and DEs first, then if they are distracted, I leave them while picking off the convoy, or if I get them all, I get the big ones (5K+), then surface and get the small stuff, then move on.

In AOD I wait in shallow water and go for the largest, then "bottom the boat", and wait for the escorts to loose me. I can't do that in SH3, deep water is life, but AOD, shallow water is best for me...

In SH4 I'm leaning toward the former... pick off the escorts, then deal with the convoy at my leisure.

And dual deck guns will help me do that even faster!

Barracuda

[propbeanie]

The merchies seem to shoot back quite a bit more, and more accurately in SH4 though, so watch yourself. For the most part, your gun will be better than theirs, so keep your distance if you can. Just be ready for a few holes to get punched into your hide... :wink:

[BarracudaUAK]

In a single mission I ran right after install, a DD hit my sub with a few shots, in SH3 I would have been sunk, but the boat shrugged it off and I proceeded to 'deal with the situation'.

I continued, the DD didn't.

A merch that was listing and firing at me was close (300-1k yards, almost glass smooth seas), but I kept changing course and speed whilst I dealt with the rest of the convoy.



Thanks for the tips.

I usually 'go manual' and keep the target ship just in view, and take care of it from there.
I also like fog, fog so thick that when they spot the ship it's so close the crew can't miss, in SH3 I run full/flank and zig-zag through the convoys.
On clear days I stay out on the edge of convoys and wittle them down from a side.
Picking off the mosted armed targest first. Then I "thin the ranks" and move up a bit.

On the Surface I have a motto (slightly moddified from a quote from Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel): "We have a saying on this boat, zig-zagging is not annoying, zig-zagging is LIFE."
(orinigal quote, from the quartermaster from the bunker was: "We have a saying in this bunker, Inventory is not boring, inventory is LIFE".)

In SH4, I've noticed that the convoys scatter, which with a fleet boats higher surface speed, makes it easier to pick them off, plus with radar, you have a larger "sight" range to find them. Seems to make it easier overall, so far.

Barracuda

[Capt Dave J. Harper]

deck guns...for those oh Shi--- moments

[Armistead]

deck guns are great in storms where you can't see anything, just use radar get withing about 1000 yards or so and shoot down the bearing or sonar bearing, a few hits, you get a flame and u can see that to shoot at... Just be careful, some ships are loaded with ammo, fuel and they explode and you're within about 500 yards or so you will die.

[jimmbbo]

Ahoy, mates!
Been cruising the thread since I ran across my SH4 disks and installed the game (1.4 bare bones) a couple of weeks ago. The conversations and ideas here have been very helpful. Many thanks!!

I finally may have something to contribute on the use of deck guns and merchants. In my limited experience (8 missions into my 2nd career), if a merchant is armed, I have had success attacking it on the surface from dead astern, which takes its forward gun out of action, and "S-turning" at 1500 yards and the same speed as the target seems to minimize damage to my sub.
FWIW, I LIKE my deck gun, and figure the BIGGER and MORE the better. Using them saves torpedoes and not many merchants can withstand a 2 x 5 inch gun assault for long.

Cheers!
Cap'n Jimmbbo

[BarracudaUAK]

Originally Posted by Armistead

deck guns are great in storms where you can't see anything, just use radar get withing about 1000 yards or so and shoot down the bearing or sonar bearing, a few hits, you get a flame and u can see that to shoot at... Just be careful, some ships are loaded with ammo, fuel and they explode and you're within about 500 yards or so you will die.

I did this in sh3, setting them aflame, then using that to put some distance.
While keeping them in sight.

I also had my crew 'taking care of buisiness', and they got the bright idea of shooting through a T3 trying to hit something else on the far side, that had moved behind the T3...

Before I could get them to stop, they 'sank' the T3, I ordered a crash dive... but too slow.
The resulting blast rolled my sub over about 90deg. and "we're taking damage sir!" followed by the end game screen.

After that, my crew was on a VERY short leash...

Then again, I have a screen shot from SH3, I was out of torpedoes, and the DD was "dead in the water", but not "sinking", and it wasn't giving me credit, so I got on it's port side and RAMMED it. Nothing, so I backed up and did it again, this time I did an emergency surface and I was mostly on top of the DD.

Massive damage to the front of the type XXI, and I was using the AA guns to try to finish it off.
I backed off of the DD and caused even MORE damage to my XXI, but it finally went down.

Sometimes, you gotta do, what you gotta do.

Barracuda

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by BarracudaUAK

I've noticed that you've quoted that several times in other threads...


I will say this:

As long as my submarine is reliant on the surface (i.e. diesel powered), I want a deck gun available.

And I don't care how difficult it is made, I WILL find the "you can't do that" for the game and I WILL do it, sucessfully.

Even if it is considered "wrong", "dumb", or "why the heck would you do that"?

In my experience, the more unpredictable your course of action is, the better off you will be. AND the more unfavorable, and therefore the less 'popular' (i.e. risky) your course of action is, the greater the odds of success, because your opponent isn't expecting you to do that because it is "suicide".
(especially with "brain dead" to "extremely dumb" AI.)


Rocking Robbins, I took no offense from your post,
nor do I intend any with mine.

As much as I like reading about history, and looking at the way things were done, and equipment used, I've always wondered 'what if'. It isn't enough to simply know that 'it worked', or 'how' it worked, but 'how do we make it work better'.

As far as games (or sims) are concerned, I always play them "as is".
Some consider it "gaming the game", but then again, playing "dead is dead" and then starting a new game is also "gaming the game". Because you know more than you did last time.

In SH3 I try to pick off the DDs and DEs first, then if they are distracted, I leave them while picking off the convoy, or if I get them all, I get the big ones (5K+), then surface and get the small stuff, then move on.

In AOD I wait in shallow water and go for the largest, then "bottom the boat", and wait for the escorts to loose me. I can't do that in SH3, deep water is life, but AOD, shallow water is best for me...

In SH4 I'm leaning toward the former... pick off the escorts, then deal with the convoy at my leisure.

And dual deck guns will help me do that even faster!

Barracuda

Well, my perspective is from TMO. If you try that stuff with TMO you will quickly find out that any armed merchant hits harder and more accurately than you can. Forget about any chance of engaging a destroyer. The only success I've had there is with a gunboat doing the jack-in-the-box.

Surface, shoot two and submerge. Shoot to another bearing from the target, surface, shoot two, submerge. Repeat until one of you is dead. Remember you must plug your average gunboat dozens of times to sink him. Usually one hit through the pressure hull and you're toast.

There's no such thing as the unexpected to the Japanese navy. They expect everything you do and never get excited or flustered. It's a very professional navy we're up against and doing the "unexpected" is only unexpected for us. After all, the basic Japanese strategy is direct frontal attack no matter what the odds. If you decide to go gunboating with a submarine that's exactly what they expect, because that's what they would do. In fact that is why with good submarines and much better torpedoes than we had they had poor success with their submarines.

It's not unusual in TMO to be sunk with the very first shot from 10,000 yards from a Japanese DD. Most times you don't get to shoot at them once. No matter how good you are, you can't win a battle where only the enemy gets to shoot.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

... It's not unusual in TMO to be sunk with the very first shot from 10,000 yards from a Japanese DD. Most times you don't get to shoot at them once. No matter how good you are, you can't win a battle where only the enemy gets to shoot.

Amen to that... the FotRS Ultimate Test Bed right now is almost the same way. I've got a new hole in my now-permanently submersible boat from a shore installation gun way across the bay from me. They hit the hull in the dark of the night, oh-2-hundred hour, on the first shot, and the conning tower on the 2nd, as I was turning away from them. "Crash dive!"... - Whooops! gots me a hole in me boat... Makes "life" a bit difficult. Never saw it coming until it got there.

[BarracudaUAK]

Note: I went into more detail with my original post that I typed out.
I decided to condense to this.

------

I understand what you are saying...
When I said I "pick off" the DDs and DEs, I meant submerged.
THEN I surface and go after the merchs...

I do plan on trying some of the mods, in SH3 I have GWX 3 installed... but I like to get a base-line to compare to before I try a mod. (only had SH4 for a few weeks.)

I, however, don't do things that are not going to work. (although that varies with my mood.)
There is a difference between good, and stupid.

Good: surface, put a shot into the hull/general direction of DD/DE and submerge, then when he comes over to check it out, send homing torp his way/use other 'remove the DD' maneuver. (how many help threads are on here for that?)

Stupid: surface in middle of group of 10 DDs, and have gunfight.
------

I appreciate the suggestions, the 'heads-up' and the willingness to share experiences and knowledge on the game and history.

But ultimately, the thread was simply me trying to figure out if SH4 glitched.
Since I am running it on Linux w/WINE.

Barracuda

[BarracudaUAK]

After I posted I thought about it, I might need to clarify a previous post.

When I said I play a game "as is", I meant as it 'is' while I'm playing it, not that I don't mod it.

If it is possible, then I will keep it as an option. I don't limit myself because it isn't possible in reality, or wasn't used in that way.
For example,(according to widely accepted theories)it is impossible to exceed the speed of light, but that doesn't prevent me from using my warp drive in Star Trek Bridge Commander, or my hyper-drive in X-wing. (where did I put my box of game disk????)



Barracuda