[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[J0313]

Originally Posted by nik112

Hi

Thanks for the reply.
Please forgive my ignorance but as i know there wasn't such technology during war except air torpedoes dropped from avengers in sh3--in gwx mod if i remember well
So is there a way to stop this and dd's can hunt only with dc?


Cheers

Hey nik112. I'm with you on an add-on to have this removed. It isn't historically accurate and I personally don't care for it. It takes the emersion right out of the game for me.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by RampantParanoia

Ah fair enough, I haven't played the game for a while before installing v0.71 and didn't remember it coming up that quickly

A Stock game problem that's not "fixable" is the prospect of a run away Co2 increase that doesn't stop it's buildup until after you're dead! Even after you've surfaced! I've had it happen to me years ago, and there's no explanation for it. I've heard players claim it's from using "Alt+TAB" out of the game (a Windows feature that puts you back to the desktop, while the game continues to be loaded), but I never "Alt+TAB" out of the game....yet it happened to me!?

A reported "work around" has been to "save" your game, then restart the "save" point. This reportedly resets the Co2 to normal levels.


==========

Originally Posted by Rampant Paranoia

I also spotted that the bow planes aren't rigging out when diving on the Gar

Not so! They work fine in my test:

[vmialpha454]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

nik112,

You may want to view this - it seems to me, that technology in this area was very advanced indeed.

"23 Allied warships were sunk after Type 93 hits: 11 cruisers, 11 destroyers, and one fleet aircraft carrier. Thirteen of these had been fatally hit solely by the Type 93, with the rest succumbing to a combination of bombs, gunfire, and torpedoes."

...and not one single submarine.

I agree that it is cool that you guys have managed to allow ai units to fire torpedoes but no amount of cool will make it historically correct. It’s your mod, so obviously do with it as you wish. But insisting that everyone just accept something which is clearly ficticious is kind of off-putting.

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by vmialpha454

...and not one single submarine.

I agree that it is cool that you guys have managed to allow ai units to fire torpedoes but no amount of cool will make it historically correct. It’s your mod, so obviously do with it as you wish. But insisting that everyone just accept something which is clearly ficticious is kind of off-putting.

I never once mentioned anything about torpedo attacks on subs.

Nor have I insisted that anyone must accept anything...

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm only replying to the post from nik112 regarding his quote "no such technology" at that time. As the page I linked to clearly states that both Axis & Allied forces had surface vessels with torpedo capabilities which were used and researched during WW2.

[nik112]

ok guys
solution?


cheers

[propbeanie]

Guys... the torpedoes are in the beta for testing purposes. It's a "beta" version. When the mod is "set", there will be user configurable options, which would include torpedoes yes/no. There are several ways to defeat their activation, but we are wanting players to try them, and let us know if there are too many of them, or not enough. It's like the airplanes. We just have to know the players' experiences, and we can adjust them for the future.

As for the US boats not getting sunk by torpedoes, there are quite a few US subs that the cause of their loss is unknown. There is one known sinking from a Japanese submarine, and I'll see if I can find that reference later. The only issue I can "see" with the torpedoes is that the ships are rather indiscriminate about which direction they are shooting them, unlike with a gun, where they won't hit their brethren. It does not look like this will be very adjustable... Another thing to remember about them is that they are shot from in-close, which helps with their accuracy. If you want to, turn the little "External View" viewer box back on for a while, and you'll get used to when they shoot...

[RampantParanoia]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

A Stock game problem that's not "fixable" is the prospect of a run away Co2 increase that doesn't stop it's buildup until after you're dead!...


==========



Not so! They work fine in my test:

I've had the unstoppable CO2 buildup a couple of times and fixed it by saving and exiting the game as you describe.

The bow planes have worked on my Gar as normal whilst playing v0.71 in the past, then I happened to notice that this last time they weren't. I think it's intermittent, or might be to do with me alt tabbing out of the game. Maybe I need to do a bit more testing to try and work out what's causing it.

[vmialpha454]

I’m not trying to put words in your mouth s7rikeback. Of course the Japanese had torpedo capabilities. The only reason people are bringing this issue up is because theyre being sunk by torpedoes while submerged. So it is logical to assume your post was saying that the Japanese had some capability to use their torpedoes in an ASW role. If that isnt what you’re saying, then disregard what I posted in response to your reference. I am not trying to step on toes here. I’m just adding my aupport to the camp of those who believe this ASW torpedo threat is ahistorical and who don’t want it.

Propbeanie, yes, a surfaced sub would definitely be a target for a submerged enemy sub. You could possibly argue that even a submerged sub battle may be possible with torpedoes, but that isn’t what seems to be happening here.

If my opinion is unwelcome, just say the word and I’ll keep it to myself. I already said that its your mod and you guys are clearly free to make it whatever you want. I was just under the impression you wanted our feedback, so I gave it. For what its worth, I havent encountered the bad planes or the torpedoes at this point. All I am commenting on is the historical accuracy of torpedoes being implemented in this fashion. It just didnt happen. Not saying it isnt cool. I’m super impressed you have done it.

[CapnScurvy]

Historically, were torpedoes on surfaced warships?

If yes, why wouldn't they be used??

You're telling us that a weapon isn't going to be used because it's "inappropriate" in any situation??

I'm telling you in real life warfare, any and all weapons WILL be used at the discretion of the combatants.....this wasn't a "game"! No more than thinking in hand-to-hand combat you wouldn't bite a man's ear off if that helped in dispatching him!

The ability to fire ANY weapon at your disposal is not only appropriate in battle, but essential to the outcome. The idea was not to die for your country, but to make the other guy die for his. Having another type of weapon in-game should not cause concern, except for those that are unprepared to face it. In real life, you faced the possibility of being torpedoed from the enemy or from your own misdirected torpedo.

[hauangua]

From what I read, it seems to rain torperdo from the sky, and sea is full of torpedoes / piranhas..hmmm :smile:

Just keep open"event camera" .. it will simulate your sonarman say"Incoming Torpedo sir" you must be quick to call Dive! Dive!

Propbeanie writed post #6118

" As a basic necessity, CapnScurvy brought the torpedo firing range in to 1500 yards or less, else the ships / subs ran themselves out of torpedoes, so there's really not a lot of reaction time to them"
You need to pay attention, or keep yourself further away of 1500 yards when you see Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers enemy.

[Immelmann]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

The ability to fire ANY weapon at your disposal is not only appropriate in battle, but essential to the outcome.

Truer words were never spoken.

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Historically, were torpedoes on surfaced warships?

If yes, why wouldn't they be used??

You're telling us that a weapon isn't going to be used because it's "inappropriate" in any situation??

I'm telling you in real life warfare, any and all weapons WILL be used at the discretion of the combatants.....this wasn't a "game"! No more than thinking in hand-to-hand combat you wouldn't bite a man's ear off if that helped in dispatching him!

The ability to fire ANY weapon at your disposal is not only appropriate in battle, but essential to the outcome. The idea was not to die for your country, but to make the other guy die for his. Having another type of weapon in-game should not cause concern, except for those that are unprepared to face it. In real life, you faced the possibility of being torpedoed from the enemy or from your own misdirected torpedo.

There is a historical event that occurred in the last few days of the war against Germany when a British sub, operating at periscope depth, fired 4 or more torpedoes at a German U-Boat also running submerged in the North Sea off southern Norway. The last torpedo hit the U-Boat, sinking her. I saw this portrayed in a documentary, but cannot recall the source. Perhaps one of our more learned members could cite the event more accurately and completely?

To repeat from an earlier post, and not to antagonize anyone, I like the addition of the torpedoes and the added tension it brings to an engagement. No more of this feeling of invulnerability one can get from easily avoiding or sinking escorts more or less at will. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in a sub sim. I like having to use my little brain to set up an attack with another element of danger to worry about. The satisfaction of carrying it out and living to tell about it is enhanced by the addition of added danger. But that's just me, I guess. By the way, I think the torpedo factor will essentially eliminate shallow water attacks on any warship! No room to dive under the torps, y'know?

[vmialpha454]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Historically, were torpedoes on surfaced warships?

If yes, why wouldn't they be used??

You're telling us that a weapon isn't going to be used because it's "inappropriate" in any situation??

I'm telling you in real life warfare, any and all weapons WILL be used at the discretion of the combatants.....this wasn't a "game"! No more than thinking in hand-to-hand combat you wouldn't bite a man's ear off if that helped in dispatching him!

The ability to fire ANY weapon at your disposal is not only appropriate in battle, but essential to the outcome. The idea was not to die for your country, but to make the other guy die for his. Having another type of weapon in-game should not cause concern, except for those that are unprepared to face it. In real life, you faced the possibility of being torpedoed from the enemy or from your own misdirected torpedo.

This is the last I’ll say in this matter as it is clear your mind is already made up. The question isn’t whether they could be used but whether they were. The answer to the question is that they weren’t. No amount of circular logic will change that fact. If this is the way you want to play your game, wonderful. Enjoy it. No need to try and pass it off as realistic, though.

[hauangua]

Originally Posted by vmialpha454

This is the last I’ll say in this matter as it is clear your mind is already made up. The question isn’t whether they could be used but whether they were. The answer to the question is that they weren’t. No amount of circular logic will change that fact. If this is the way you want to play your game, wonderful. Enjoy it. No need to try and pass it off as realistic, though.

I do not understand this resentment / contrariety ... if you in war you would say to the enemy "ehy so no good.. it is not realistic !!!"
Realism?...
no soldier had a "reset" button.

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by torpedobait

There is a historical event that occurred in the last few days of the war against Germany when a British sub, operating at periscope depth, fired 4 or more torpedoes at a German U-Boat also running submerged in the North Sea off southern Norway. The last torpedo hit the U-Boat, sinking her. I saw this portrayed in a documentary, but cannot recall the source. Perhaps one of our more learned members could cite the event more accurately and completely?

To repeat from an earlier post, and not to antagonize anyone, I like the addition of the torpedoes and the added tension it brings to an engagement. No more of this feeling of invulnerability one can get from easily avoiding or sinking escorts more or less at will. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in a sub sim. I like having to use my little brain to set up an attack with another element of danger to worry about. The satisfaction of carrying it out and living to tell about it is enhanced by the addition of added danger. But that's just me, I guess. By the way, I think the torpedo factor will essentially eliminate shallow water attacks on any warship! No room to dive under the torps, y'know?

taken from:

The German submarine U-864 was a Type IXD2 U-boat of Nazi Germany's Kriegsmarine in World War II. She departed from Kiel on 5 December 1944 on her last mission, to transport to Japan a large quantity of mercury and parts and engineering drawings for German jet fighters. While returning to Bergen, Norway to repair a misfiring engine, the U-864 was detected and sunk on 9 February 1945 by the British submarine HMS Venturer, killing all 73 on board. It is the only instance in the history of naval warfare where one submarine intentionally sank another while both were submerged.
The shipwreck was located in March 2003 by the Royal Norwegian Navy 2 nmi (3.7 km; 2.3 mi) west of the island of Fedje in the North Sea, at 150 metres (490 ft).[1] The mercury had been seeping out of rusted containers, contaminating the region and sea life.[2] One study recommended entombing the wreck under a layer of sand as well as gravel and concrete. The Norwegian government instead awarded a contract to a salvage company to raise the wreck; however, the proposed operation was put on hold pending additional studies.