The "Quit/Start/Load/Reload" Issue (FOTRSU)

[podunkpete]

Allow me to muddy the waters. I typically do a save when I first see a target. If it's a convoy, I may do a few saves on the approach to attack (after a VERY bad surprise from a destroyer I never saw!) On a few occasions, I have started a game and tried to load a save which results in CTD. So I back up one save (or more) and try to load, heartbreak. The times this has happened I think either involve a convoy or encountering a convoy in a CC area. Fix? By chance I loaded a save from before I was even dispatched to the convoy area that worked fine. Curious, I then loaded the next save - no issues. I then loaded each save in turn with each running fine, including the ones that initially crashed. After doing a speed/course change, I did a save that worked fine from then on. Maybe somebody slipped a 2 into my software?


Running OM. FPS set to 30. Have seen the "darkness at noon", when it occurs with save issues I start a new career that works fine. Just learned to live with it.

[propbeanie]

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves!

Check this out:






These two pictures are from after loading the save, and then re-loading the save again. Success... It is FotRSU in all regards, other than the CareerStart, Flotillas and Campaign.cfg files... - All that loads currently is the Balao from Mid 1942 on, at Pearl Harbor only, still starts at 1300 hours, sunset still at the same time. The Campaign.cfg only loads the Campaign_LOC and Campaign_NMS files. No layers, no "Battle" files... Therefore, no ships nor planes load, and no other subs load... I have my suspects, and I'll add back in my "un-suspects" first and see what it does. All "assets" are in their original folders, just no Campaign loaded, no references to other subs and bases in the game. Do either of you two want this version of the "un-mod"??

Edit: Thanks for the input podunkpete! That "shift" in the daylight hours is what we're after.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves!

More "Grist" for the mill.
I changed the.....

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-01, 1944-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

To.....

[CareerStart 7]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-01-15, 1944-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

and it worked! Changing the "StartTimeInterval=" to
"1944-01-01, 1944-01-01" DID NOT work!

Also changing....

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-05, 1944-06-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

To.....

[CareerStart 8]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Middle of 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-06-15, 1944-06-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

Worked! ....but, using "1944-06-05, 1944-06-05" DID NOT work.

AND, finally, changing......

[CareerStart 9]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Beginning of 1945
StartTimeInterval=1945-01-01, 1945-01-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

to......(using "1945-01-15, 1945-01-15" OR "1945-01-01, 1945-01-01" DID NOT work, changing the "Late war" start dates to the Middle of December...)

[CareerStart 9]
ID= LateWar
NameDisplayable= Mid December 1944
StartTimeInterval=1944-12-15, 1944-12-15
BackgroundPic= 1944.tga ; picture that is displayed on the background when this option is selected
CareerStartBriefingText= The war is still undecided, but we're gaining on them.
RenownOptions= 500

Worked!

Right now I can create a career Mid-January 1944, Mid-June 1944 and Mid-December 1944, without the issue! Using FOTRSUv80 with ONLY those 3 edits in the "CareerStart.upc" file.

This doesn't "FIX" it but may help "EXPLAIN" it.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Ahoy Front Runner and Jeff-Groves!

Do either of you two want this version of the "un-mod"??

Yes, I would like the "Un-Mod" version. It should come in handy for further testing.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by podunkpete

Allow me to muddy the waters. I typically do a save when I first see a target. If it's a convoy, I may do a few saves on the approach to attack (after a VERY bad surprise from a destroyer I never saw!) On a few occasions, I have started a game and tried to load a save which results in CTD. So I back up one save (or more) and try to load, heartbreak. The times this has happened I think either involve a convoy or encountering a convoy in a CC area. Fix? By chance I loaded a save from before I was even dispatched to the convoy area that worked fine. Curious, I then loaded the next save - no issues. I then loaded each save in turn with each running fine, including the ones that initially crashed. After doing a speed/course change, I did a save that worked fine from then on. Maybe somebody slipped a 2 into my software?

Running OM. FPS set to 30. Have seen the "darkness at noon", when it occurs with save issues I start a new career that works fine. Just learned to live with it.

If I recall, UBISOFT had a post in their SH4 forum that addressed the CTD on load issue. Their recommendation was to load a file that works and then the files that CTD "magically" would work as well. I can't find it now, but I think it was from one of their "Official" posts.

Does anyone else remember this?

Also, when in my Patrol area and playing in Time Compression, I make save games at "0015" "Sunrise" "Noon" "Sunset" and sometimes at "0815" and "2015", just in case something goes wonky as you have described. Then, at least, I have a fall back position and I'm never too far away from re-gaining the contact on the "re-load". Your issue reinforces that we chase down this "Q/S/L/R" issue.

I remember when SH4 first came out before the 1.5 U-Boat Missions "patch". They recommended that you NEVER save while submerged. Dang!

Regardless of how some players always play without saving, that's OK, that's their style, however, when we get windstorms (AKA Tropical Storms, Hurricanes, Gale Force winds, Severe Thunderstorms, etc) and the lights start "flickering". I'm making a "savegame". Also, I have a cat who likes to play with the keyboard and step on the computer's "Re-Start/On/Off" switch at random times, so, there's that.

[propbeanie]

I'll have to make another copy Front Runner... I ruined my first with a Save on top of it... However, let me comment on your date changes above, and maybe we'll do some of those is FotRSU as well, because those little lines of "ID= LateWar" and "ID= EarlyWar", etc., those have to be on certain dates, and they might overlap in FotRSU. I'll have to check my notes for that. I'm on another version of the "un-mod", and the time of the Jan 1, 1944 start has changed now to 0700 hours... I've got all the 4xa_Jap_*.mis layer files loaded, and it still functions as intended on the double-load of a Save game... More later, and I'll send you a link to a copy of my original "un-mod" here after a bit.


Edit: Game start time keeps changing, but still plugging away, adding content, and all is well thus far. Won't be long now fellers...

[propbeanie]

Discovery!

This is with US_NavalBases.mis loading, the picture taken just prior to the Save:




and this is the picture taken just after loading the Save file a 2nd time:




That is "1659" in the top picture, and 1701 in the bottom, same location... Therefore, something loading in the US_NavalBases.mis file is causing the issue. I'm going to remove that file now, and activate a few others, just to double-check that, and try it again... Then the surgery on the Bases file begins... yeesh!...

[propbeanie]

It is NOT my primary suspects in the US_NavalBases.mis file, so I'm still digging...

[Jeff-Groves]

What happens if you load the save say 5 times?
Does it jump each time?

[propbeanie]

I've not tried that. I stop at two times, and have made a Save on that Save, and it then stays "trashed"... There is definitely something in the US_NavalBases.mis file, but it is attempting to remain incognito...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

What happens if you load the save say 5 times?
Does it jump each time?

No, I've tried it. It just duplicates the 1300 daylight scene. Base time remains the same. The orb of the sun stays at the same relative bearing and the same "right ascension" (although, that is observational, not measurable.) It's as if the Celestial Sphere "defaults" to the Career Mission start date and time.

[propbeanie]

Well... I was getting aggravated with it all, trying to figure out what it was about the US_NavalBases.mis file that is causing this issue (I suspect the file because I did quite a bit of editing in it). So I was going to give Jeff a "photo montage" of what it is supposed to (should) do, and what it actually does. When I just now disabled the US_NavalBases.mis file, it is still messing up, and the sun going back to 1300 elevation, but the clock says it should be sunset... So I'll take a couple steps further back, get some sleep tonight, and try again sometime tomorrow... maybe

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Well... I was getting aggravated with it all, trying to figure out what it was about the US_NavalBases.mis file that is causing this issue (I suspect the file because I did quite a bit of editing in it). So I was going to give Jeff a "photo montage" of what it is supposed to (should) do, and what it actually does. When I just now disabled the US_NavalBases.mis file, it is still messing up, and the sun going back to 1300 elevation, but the clock says it should be sunset... So I'll take a couple steps further back, get some sleep tonight, and try again sometime tomorrow... maybe

I've done some preliminary tests using a single session of SH4 and creating multiple careers within that same session instead of wiping everything and beginning anew for each individual test. I'm still in the process of confirming my observations.
This is what I've observed.


A Career started before Jan 1 1944 works and the save games from that career "work", even when loading them after a save game that "doesn't work" made while playing a career started Jan 1 1944. The issue appears to travel with either the good or the bad save game.


Create Careers beginning only at Pearl Harbor for this test.


1. Start a game session using a new "Documents/SH4" folder.
2. Create a Career starting anytime before "Beginning of 1944".
3. Head due west (270) until Sunset, save game.
4. Make another save game about 1 hour after SS.
5. Go back to the SS save to see if it works. (It should)
6. Go to the save game made 1 hour later to see if it works. (It should)
7. Go back to the SS save to see if it still works. (It should).
8. Exit to Main Menu. Do not restart the game.
9. Create a Career starting Jan 1 1944 or later.
10. Head due west (270) until Sunset, save game.
11. Make another save game about 1 hour after SS.
12. Go back to the SS save to see if it works. (It should NOT) [EDIT] I've discovered that it is the making of the "SAVE GAME", step (11.)and not the LOADING of the steps (5. 6. 7.) that trigger the issue.
13. Go back to the SS save from step (3.) to see if it works. (It should)
14. Go to the save game made 1 hour later in step (11.) (It should not work)
15. Go to the save game made 1 hour later in step (4.) (It should work.)
16. Convince yourself that the step (10.) save doesn't work by loading it again. (It should not work.)

So, within a single game play session, one can have a mix of save game loads that either work or don't work. It appears that the issue (or lack thereof) travels with the save game data and takes effect upon any serial re-loading made with a "bad" file.

17. Then Quit/Start and load the step (10.) save. (It should work).
18. Load it again and it should not work.
19. Load the save game from step (3.) It should work.
20. Load step (10.). It should not work.


[EDIT] New discovery.


21. Then Quit/Start and load the step (10.) save. (It should work)
22. Make a New Save Game.
23. Load step (10.) again. (It should not work) Note: this was unexpected. I thought that it was the act of "loading" a game that triggered the issue. Merely "saving" the game also triggers the issue.



Stand by for confirmation, I'm working on it now......[EDIT] Confirmed!

[propbeanie]

There has to be a unit or equipment coming on line in one of the files, somewhere near that January 1, 1944 date, or maybe a bit before it... I've lost my place now Front Runner, but did the other boats do this also (not just the Balao)?? Thanks

[Front Runner]

I have to fall back on logical arguments to understand the sequence of what I am observing.

Definitions.
A= Career Jan 1 1944 Sunset save (BAD)
B= Career Jan 1 1944 one hour past Sunset (BAD)
C= Career June 5 1943 Sunset save (GOOD)
D=Career June 5 1943 one hour past Sunset (GOOD)
E= Career Jan 1 1944 New Save Game (BAD)
F=Career June 5 1943 New Save Game (GOOD)
ST= Restart SH4
SG= Make New Save Game (While in A,B,C, or D)
TRUE = Game works as intended
FALSE = Game does not work as intended.

LOGIC:
If ST then A = TRUE
If A then A = FALSE

LOGIC:
If ST then A = TRUE
If A then SG (E) then A = FALSE !!!
(This is new, I thought it was the act of "loading" that triggers the issue. Either a "SAVE" or a "LOAD" made while in a "BAD" Career start triggers the issue.)

LOGIC:
If ST then C = TRUE
If C then D = TRUE
If D then SG (F) then A = TRUE !!! (Making a "SAVE" from a "GOOD" Career start does NOT trigger the issue.)
If A then A = FALSE
If A then C or D or F = TRUE !!! (Even from a "FALSE" loading, ANY "GOOD" save still "loads" correctly.
If C or D or F then A = FALSE

LOGIC:
If ST then C = TRUE
If C then A = TRUE !!! (re-loading after a "GOOD" load does NOT trigger issue.)
If A then A = FALSE
If A then C = TRUE
If C then D = TRUE
If D then B = FALSE
If B then C or D or F = TRUE

It appears as if the "issue" is triggered by saving or loading, and "attached" to the data contained in the "Save Game".

A "FALSE" condition may be triggered, or arrived at, by either "re-loading" or "saving" a game made while in the BAD Career (A,B or E.)

A "TRUE" condition (C,D or F) may be loaded or re-loaded, at any point, whether or not the game is in the "FALSE" condition. (A, B or E.)


Whew.......!!