[REL] Flavored To Taste 2.5 - Page 5

RocketDog · 05-01-07, 08:53 AM

Some of the problem with submarines being too good on the surface is perhaps down to the rate of fire of the submarine deck guns. There is a good argument in the Real Fleet Boat thread that real-life rates of fire should be nearer one shell per minute than the one shell every few seconds that we have now. I haven't tried it, but without the ability to knock the DDs out very quickly they may well be able to destroy a surfaced boat within a few minutes - which would sound about right.

As for the AI sonar/hydrophone skills. I believe that it is effectively impossible to evade two or more level-4 AI DDs. Something similar did happen in real life, but only very, very occasionally. For example, I am reading Blair's book at the moment and he describes one boat as being held under for nearly two complete days by a pair of 500 ton Japanese craft(at work and can't remember the name, sorry). The stress was so high that the Captain effectively lost control of the crew and they were lucky to finally escape.

Cheers,

RD.

Buzz313th · 05-01-07, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketDog

Some of the problem with submarines being too good on the surface is perhaps down to the rate of fire of the submarine deck guns. There is a good argument in the Real Fleet Boat thread that real-life rates of fire should be nearer one shell per minute than the one shell every few seconds that we have now. I haven't tried it, but without the ability to knock the DDs out very quickly they may well be able to destroy a surfaced boat within a few minutes - which would sound about right.

That makes sense I guess... but the biggest problem I see, is not the deck gun of our subs, but the inacuracy of the gun crews on the DD's. They must have shot over 150 rounds at me, but only hit me like 8-10 times. Again this was at late dawn and I was weaving like a SOB to get away while keeping a low visual aspect to the gun crews when I got away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketDog

As for the AI sonar/hydrophone skills. I believe that it is effectively impossible to evade two or more level-4 AI DDs. Something similar did happen in real life, but only very, very occasionally. For example, I am reading Blair's book at the moment and he describes one boat as being held under for nearly two complete days by a pair of 500 ton Japanese craft(at work and can't remember the name, sorry). The stress was so high that the Captain effectively lost control of the crew and they were lucky to finally escape.

Cheers,

RD.

Ok, I am listening very well. I have not changed anything yet, and I won't until someone tells me, that what I experienced is wrong with the way it "woulda been".

I also want to add one more thing... When I am in the same situation in rough seas, I only need to spend maybe 20 minutes to get away from the same sonar situation, but I would expect that entirely.

TopCat · 05-01-07, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz313th

That makes sense I guess... but the biggest problem I see, is not the deck gun of our subs, but the inacuracy of the gun crews on the DD's. They must have shot over 150 rounds at me, but only hit me like 8-10 times. Again this was at late dawn and I was weaving like a SOB to get away while keeping a low visual aspect to the gun crews when I got away.

Agreed. In additon to that I think that the shells of the deck guns do way too much damage to ships. For example: A few days ago I was attacked on surface by a DD. I shot at it with my deck gun and after 4 or 5 hits it exploded and sank. Im no expert but I don't think that this is realistic.

Maltro · 05-01-07, 10:49 AM

Hi! I love your mods especially sounds and mean to know the distance we can reach at current speed! Now I know if I can go as far enough to accomplish my mission!

Thank you!:rotfl:

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 11:17 AM

Regarding the AI in terms of surface detection. Im working on that now. THe settings i have for AI visuals worked very well in SH4 1.1,, but for some reason not very well in 1.2. Only reason i can come up with, is something else has changed internally to the game.

As for the AI difficulty, i have removed probably 98% of all elite rated escorts (crew rating 4). Overall though i havent had much of a problem with it. Following the guidelines of sorts here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377 and by pushing the boat as deep as it can saftely go before it cracks like an eggshell, the game to me becomes rather easy. As always though i will keep an eye on it. In this last revision i upped the depth charge explosion radius a couple meters because the DC's seemed too inneffectual.

As for historical difficulty, i honestly am not going to delve in to that very far. Ive read reports of depth chargings ranging anywhere from a couple hours to 14 hours to one boat considering surfacing because its battery was nearly totally drained. So opinions on this will vary to a degree. So personally i refuse to get into arguments about whats historical and whats not because ive been in those debates before, and their tantamount to a blind dog chasing its tail.

Buzz313th · 05-01-07, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopCat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz313th

That makes sense I guess... but the biggest problem I see, is not the deck gun of our subs, but the inacuracy of the gun crews on the DD's. They must have shot over 150 rounds at me, but only hit me like 8-10 times. Again this was at late dawn and I was weaving like a SOB to get away while keeping a low visual aspect to the gun crews when I got away.

Agreed. In additon to that I think that the shells of the deck guns do way too much damage to ships. For example: A few days ago I was attacked on surface by a DD. I shot at it with my deck gun and after 4 or 5 hits it exploded and sank. Im no expert but I don't think that this is realistic.

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure I agree.... While I was trying to get away at the surface, I must of shot close to 40 rounds into each DD, they never sank, just slowed down enough to alow me to pull away and increase range. I like the damage model of the Deck Gun in FTT 2.4, just feel the DD's gunmen are absolutely blind.

Buzz313th · 05-01-07, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Regarding the AI in terms of surface detection. Im working on that now. THe settings i have for AI visuals worked very well in SH4 1.1,, but for some reason not very well in 1.2. Only reason i can come up with, is something else has changed internally to the game.

As for the AI difficulty, i have removed probably 98% of all elite rated escorts (crew rating 4). Overall though i havent had much of a problem with it. Following the guidelines of sorts here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377 and by pushing the boat as deep as it can saftely go before it cracks like an eggshell, the game to me becomes rather easy. As always though i will keep an eye on it. In this last revision i upped the depth charge explosion radius a couple meters because the DC's seemed too inneffectual.

As for historical difficulty, i honestly am not going to delve in to that very far. Ive read reports of depth chargings ranging anywhere from a couple hours to 14 hours to one boat considering surfacing because its battery was nearly totally drained. So opinions on this will vary to a degree. So personally i refuse to get into arguments about whats historical and whats not because ive been in those debates before, and their tantamount to a blind dog chasing its tail.

LOL... no prob, I understand.

My reason for posting my feelings, are just to get some feedback from those of you with the wealth of knowledge.

I still have not edited anything yet, and won't until someone lets me know that I should.

Thanks again for a fantastic Mod... I am enjoying everybit of it.

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 11:36 AM

I really am grateful for the feedback. I have to admit though, with the AI its very hard to gauge feedback because opinions can vary so widely. All i can really do is sort of mentally make a note of what people are saying whlist i play the game to see if i agree or disagree.

Buzz313th · 05-01-07, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I really am grateful for the feedback. I have to admit though, with the AI its very hard to gauge feedback because opinions can vary so widely. All i can really do is sort of mentally make a note of what people are saying whlist i play the game to see if i agree or disagree.

Bando · 05-01-07, 03:43 PM

Hello Ducimus,

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your effords to make SH4 the sim it should be. I've played SH1 extensively, skipped sh2 and sh3 due to a whole lot of other commitmennts, but i'm glad to be back in the simworld.
The vanilla game needed finetuning to say the least. People like you make this game much more fun. Thanks for that.

There is a little question i'd like to ask;
When sailing from Java my batterie was 100%. After a few days and a few dives it did not recharge to 100% but to some 94% or so. No problem, I can live with that. Leaving the option on to recharge gives a drastic reduction in your range when running on diesels however.
Now everytime I surface I have to remember to shut the recharger off, otherwise I won't make it to port.

Is this intentionally?

Regards,
Bando

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 03:47 PM

What boat were you using and were you damaged in some way? Ive had that happen to me once after i had the beejubus shelled out of me by an esort. Otherwise i havent experiened that at all.

U-Bones · 05-01-07, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bando

Hello Ducimus,

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your effords to make SH4 the sim it should be. I've played SH1 extensively, skipped sh2 and sh3 due to a whole lot of other commitmennts, but i'm glad to be back in the simworld.
The vanilla game needed finetuning to say the least. People like you make this game much more fun. Thanks for that.

There is a little question i'd like to ask;
When sailing from Java my batterie was 100%. After a few days and a few dives it did not recharge to 100% but to some 94% or so. No problem, I can live with that. Leaving the option on to recharge gives a drastic reduction in your range when running on diesels however.
Now everytime I surface I have to remember to shut the recharger off, otherwise I won't make it to port.

Is this intentionally?

Regards,
Bando

The reduction in range is temporary while the battery charges. As soon as the battery charges you get normal efficiency back.

Edit: Sorry I misunderstood - your battery never charges. I don't think it is intentional, I have never seen it.

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 04:22 PM

No, its not intentional. I'd never do that, it would annoy me to no end. Again, though, unless damaged i havent seen this behavior at all.

jerryt · 05-01-07, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

What boat were you using and were you damaged in some way? Ive had that happen to me once after i had the beejubus shelled out of me by an esort. Otherwise i havent experiened that at all.

I got bombed by a couple of Betty's and had this happen also. Batteries wouldn't charge past 81%, and I had to remember to shut off the charger after every dive.

This was after the batteries were repaired by my DC crew, so I guess it basically marks some batteries destroyed after taking damage.

Ducimus · 05-01-07, 05:34 PM

Thats my experiences as well. Im fairly confident in saying this is a stock game issue, probably with the damage model.

As an aside i am working on verion 2.5. I stopped playing immediatly after i noticed AI visuals on planes and have been monkeying with it since.

Right now 2.5 is looking to have

- fixed AI visuals

- decreased player visuals (its just too good right now)

- retouch patrol assigments to get some more variety, and try and place the player in the locations of major battles when the happen, (no promises here though)

- further reduction of task force and troop convoy spawn requency.

05-01-07, 08:53 AM	#61
RocketDog Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 55 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Some of the problem with submarines being too good on the surface is perhaps down to the rate of fire of the submarine deck guns. There is a good argument in the Real Fleet Boat thread that real-life rates of fire should be nearer one shell per minute than the one shell every few seconds that we have now. I haven't tried it, but without the ability to knock the DDs out very quickly they may well be able to destroy a surfaced boat within a few minutes - which would sound about right. As for the AI sonar/hydrophone skills. I believe that it is effectively impossible to evade two or more level-4 AI DDs. Something similar did happen in real life, but only very, very occasionally. For example, I am reading Blair's book at the moment and he describes one boat as being held under for nearly two complete days by a pair of 500 ton Japanese craft(at work and can't remember the name, sorry). The stress was so high that the Captain effectively lost control of the crew and they were lucky to finally escape. Cheers, RD. __________________

05-01-07, 10:49 AM	#64
Maltro Soundman Join Date: May 2007 Location: Near Lyon, France Posts: 141 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Hi! I love your mods especially sounds and mean to know the distance we can reach at current speed! Now I know if I can go as far enough to accomplish my mission! Thank you!:rotfl: __________________ Erwin Rommel. 1890-1944. La guerre sans haine - War without hate.

05-01-07, 11:17 AM	#65
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Regarding the AI in terms of surface detection. Im working on that now. THe settings i have for AI visuals worked very well in SH4 1.1,, but for some reason not very well in 1.2. Only reason i can come up with, is something else has changed internally to the game. As for the AI difficulty, i have removed probably 98% of all elite rated escorts (crew rating 4). Overall though i havent had much of a problem with it. Following the guidelines of sorts here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377 and by pushing the boat as deep as it can saftely go before it cracks like an eggshell, the game to me becomes rather easy. As always though i will keep an eye on it. In this last revision i upped the depth charge explosion radius a couple meters because the DC's seemed too inneffectual. As for historical difficulty, i honestly am not going to delve in to that very far. Ive read reports of depth chargings ranging anywhere from a couple hours to 14 hours to one boat considering surfacing because its battery was nearly totally drained. So opinions on this will vary to a degree. So personally i refuse to get into arguments about whats historical and whats not because ive been in those debates before, and their tantamount to a blind dog chasing its tail.

05-01-07, 11:36 AM	#68
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I really am grateful for the feedback. I have to admit though, with the AI its very hard to gauge feedback because opinions can vary so widely. All i can really do is sort of mentally make a note of what people are saying whlist i play the game to see if i agree or disagree.

05-01-07, 03:43 PM	#70
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Hello Ducimus, First of all, I'd like to thank you for your effords to make SH4 the sim it should be. I've played SH1 extensively, skipped sh2 and sh3 due to a whole lot of other commitmennts, but i'm glad to be back in the simworld. The vanilla game needed finetuning to say the least. People like you make this game much more fun. Thanks for that. There is a little question i'd like to ask; When sailing from Java my batterie was 100%. After a few days and a few dives it did not recharge to 100% but to some 94% or so. No problem, I can live with that. Leaving the option on to recharge gives a drastic reduction in your range when running on diesels however. Now everytime I surface I have to remember to shut the recharger off, otherwise I won't make it to port. Is this intentionally? Regards, Bando

05-01-07, 03:47 PM	#71
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	What boat were you using and were you damaged in some way? Ive had that happen to me once after i had the beejubus shelled out of me by an esort. Otherwise i havent experiened that at all.

05-01-07, 04:22 PM	#73
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	No, its not intentional. I'd never do that, it would annoy me to no end. Again, though, unless damaged i havent seen this behavior at all.

05-01-07, 05:34 PM	#75
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Thats my experiences as well. Im fairly confident in saying this is a stock game issue, probably with the damage model. As an aside i am working on verion 2.5. I stopped playing immediatly after i noticed AI visuals on planes and have been monkeying with it since. Right now 2.5 is looking to have - fixed AI visuals - decreased player visuals (its just too good right now) - retouch patrol assigments to get some more variety, and try and place the player in the locations of major battles when the happen, (no promises here though) - further reduction of task force and troop convoy spawn requency.