Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Stiebler]

H.sie said:

What part of diving time do you want to change?
1) the part resulting from the O2 in the air of the sub (regenerative)
2) the part resulting from the O2-supply in bottles (non-regenerative)
3) both?

The short answer is that I do not know, yet.
I am ignorant of where the real problem lies.

However, I agree strongly with the idea of reducing the number of variables to just two, to include all U-boat types. My instinct on a slider would be to increase the time available from air in the U-boat (#1 above), and to reduce greatly the contribution from O2 in bottles (#2 above).

But really, I do not know which is correct. That is why I am seeking expert advice from outsiders. All that I know for sure is that something is wrong in the way (1) and (2) work together.

I could permanently (that means: cannot be disabled back to stock sh3 values) enlarge the max. diving-times (resulting from CO2 production)...

My vote is not to make this change at the present time - await further developments.


Wolfstriked said:

If I was a Uboat captain I would not surface just once a day though.I would surface at night and then surface every time the Oxygen was being used to fill boat with air and get a little bit of battery recharge done.I would then do a final surface with full battery recharge right before dawn so that as little of the oxygen tank is used.

All this is true, and correct. But you would not want to surface frequently in areas strongly patrolled by aircraft, nor in thick fog. All submarines are at their most vulnerable as they surface. You would not want to do that more than you needed to.

Stiebler.

[Wolfstriked]

Hsie thats great news!

Stiebler,I understand your point about not wanting to surface in heavily patrolled areas but I think that under the cover of darkness a captain would get alot braver.Even with Radar pinpointing the ships location under the cover of darkness the planes would still need to visually find you.Its not like they had radar guided missiles in WW2.The planes had torpedoes they lined up on you and let loose.If anything your watch would probably spot them circling and looking for you and signal a dive.

As for fog,wouldn't this same issue of not seeing planes work against them also?

[Wreford-Brown]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

As for fog,wouldn't this same issue of not seeing planes work against them also?

I was thinking that. Surely it's safer to surface in fog than without it...

[NGT]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Stiebler: Great. You'll get PM soon.


@NGT, ALL: as a second compromise, additionally to the possibility to change divingtimes for the o2-mod, I could offer the following:

I could permanently (that means: cannot be disabled back to stock sh3 values) enlarge the max. diving-times (resulting from CO2 production) as follows:

type 2: from 30h to 60h
type 7: from 36h to 72h
type 9: from 40h to 80h
type21: from 75h(?) to 150h

but these times are not depending on silent-running or crew number or anything else. it's only a factor of 2 compared to stock sh3.

so one can choose to either use the o2-mod, or, if o2-mod is disabled, use these longer diving times.

POLL: Is this desired or not?

Thank you h.sie. I appreciate that you spend time for something you do not use.

Yes, I prefer by far this arrangement. For me, is much better like that.

Maybe Stiebler is right, but until further information, your offer is the best.

Thanks again.

____________

PS: Some times Internet left me with a bitter taste in the tongue: there is good people around here, but we will never meat each other. Well. . .
But, to tell the true, I met Makman, a good friend now.

Sorry for very basic English...

Originally Posted by Hitman

You mean it actually can take the decission to dive?

I would bet it suffered flooding and sank but did not reach it's crush depth
so did not go poof!
GWX AI Subs had to have a whole new damage design built to stop alot of odd ball problems like that.

I've only seen one AI Sub that would actually dive and then re-surface.
It still suffered from the AI seeing it as surfaced all the time.
So every Ship in range fired at it as if it was surfaced.
But it did get depth charged on a regular basis!

[h.sie]

@Stiebler: Ok, then I wait with programming, until you have more information. I cannot start now with implementing a correction factor since I don't know which component of the diving you want to be changed.

[LGN1]

Hi Stiebler,

sorry, but I'm not convinced by your argument (which is only the Standing order in the Bay of Biscay). Do you have any source that clearly states that U-Boats only surfaced once a day for several days? I know that during the Norway campaign boats had problems with their oxygen supply although it was early in the war (no radar) so they could surface during the night (which were not short).

And please be aware that the use of 'silent running' is only a work-around to make sure that no heavy work, e.g., repairs and torpedo reloading, is done when submerged. In other words, it's only a 'synonym' for no hard work.

Regards, LGN1

PS: I have made a few late-war patrols with h.sie's O2 version and never had a problem with O2. Not at the US coast, not in the Bay of Biscay,... Just surface twice a day and no problems at all.

[h.sie]

@Stiebler: I have tried (with GWX & NYGM) to reproduce the error you reported ("don't sink neutrals"-message when no tonnage sunk) - without success so far. all seems to work as intended: with no tonnage sunk, I get random messages or - with a certain chance - motivation messages.

I sent you the source code for V15G1. Would be nice if you would also try to locate the error. I am not able to find it. The code for the BDUMessages-Fix is commented in english. Just set a BP at 0x491BA7 and wait until BDU sends a response.

h.sie

[NGT]

Hello,

I did a docking with refuelling in a U-tanker, I had 4 torpedoes and fuel.

But, after 4770 km, in a other U-tanker, I had the message in title.

This means we have the right of only one docking per patrol?

Year:1945 / VIIC/42 / V15G1

[h.sie]

@NGT: In accordance with Stiebler I programmed a minimum time of 1-2 months between two docking maneuvers.....otherwise you get the above message....

[h.sie]

Wasn't there an old sh3 bug in the TDC dials for AOB and target direction? I don't remember exactly...

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by privateer

...
It still suffered from the AI seeing it as surfaced all the time.
So every Ship in range fired at it as if it was surfaced.
But it did get depth charged on a regular basis!

... nothing strange because, in spite of all Eye-candy's tricks, Unit's state remains "Is Surfaced"... and fake-AISub of Sergei Butorin has the same problem, visually fake-AISub is submerged, in fact UBoatState (correctly ShipState) IsSurfaced...
... and if sergbuto's fake-AISub will be submerged to a depth greater than the parameter unit_Submarine --> unit_Ship --> obj_Hydro --> Surfaced --> draught = 12 m and --> Submerged --> draught = 13 m... submarine will be passive as a floating object... i think.

[complutum]

Firts of all thank you for your great job.

I have 2 questions:

1 is inside your v15g version the pseudo-dock in u tankers?

2 will your fix work with LSH?

Thanks again for your job

[Stiebler]

@LGN1:

sorry, but I'm not convinced by your argument (which is only the Standing order in the Bay of Biscay). Do you have any source that clearly states that U-Boats only surfaced once a day for several days?

I think the logical question is sufficient: Why would BdU give orders for U-boats to remain submerged at all times (except to charge batteries), if the U-boats could not achieve this result?

For example:
(BdU War Diary, 3 September 1943, concerning the U-boats of the Leuthen wolf-pack sailing out from French bases)
"[U-boats] are to surface solely at night and only when the batteries need recharging."

@Wolfstriked/Wreford-Brown:
Concerning effect of fog on a U-boat's need to remain submerged.

The threat is not from aircraft. The threat is from radar-fitted destroyers, especially if your radar-warning receiver does not exist or is obsolete.

Stiebler.

[Wolfstriked]

Copy that Stiebler,so when fog is present the DD's have advantage if radar warning is obsolete.How large is the advantage though?Does it allos a good amount of time if they see a radar spot them to dive or does obsolete mean it doesn't pick up advanced radar at all.Just asking becuase I like to learn this stuff.

Ok,I think I know what they did.No its not stated in any BDU accounts but tell me if you think this is not what happened.If the time it takes to refill the renewable oxygen supply you guys have simulated is correct then its takes no more than a few minutes of surface(even decks awash) running to refill this and back to submerged for a few hours.I also believe it only takes a few minutes to fill a sub.

Also,you guys forget that the silent running effect of only utilizing %70 percent also applies to the renewable oxygen supply so effectively adding another %30 percent to this oxygen.

EDIT....if possible could you set the 70% usage as standard and have 100% usage be only when doing repairs?