[WIP] Historic Crew Names - Page 2

JScones · 08-06-07, 09:29 PM

Not having SH4 installed, I'm not sure of the file format, but if the list of names is stored comma delimited, like the files I did for you, then you may simply have too many names for SH4 to handle.

As a test, take all but about 20 or so out. If that works, then this will most likely be the problem. Add them back in chunks until it fails.

This is assuming, of course, that your file is set up right to begin with - others can check that possibility first.

jdkbph · 08-06-07, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Grr, now this is frustrating. I just combined those two files together into the proper format for the game, activated it via JSGME, and what do I get? Nothing but blank lines for the crewmember's names.

Could somebody check this file out and see if I've made a mistake somewhere in the file format?

http://files.filefront.com/Historic+.../fileinfo.html

I experimented with it a little bit to eliminate some possibilties.

I removed all the ' and . characters as well as the spaces between the multi-part names. I also looked at it in Word and removed all the manual line breaks that don't belong there.

None of these things, by themselves, fixed the problem... but I suspect they still need to be removed in order for the list to work correctly.

Anyway, that brought me to file size or the actual number of names in the lists.

So as a test I deleted most of the surnames from both sections (1 and 2) and that didn't work. Then I tried deleting a bunch of names from each of the 4 sections and hey presto!

So the problem appears to be that there's an upper limit on the number of names that can be in each of the four sections (Names 1 and 2, and Surnames 1 and 2).

I'm not sure exactly what that limit is, but I seem to have got under it when I deleted approximately half the names from each of those sections in your list.

BTW, it seems the devs got the labels backward here. For this to work, you need to put first names under the Surnames= section and last names under the Names= sections.

Go figure.

JD

JScones · 08-06-07, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Quote:

Took about 10 mins with the right tools.

What exactly would those be? :hmm:

Notepad, Excel and Word. Throw in a quick Excel macro, and it's done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkbph

Anyway, that brought me to file size or the actual number of names in the lists.

So as a test I deleted most of the surnames from both sections (1 and 2) and that didn't work. Then I tried deleting a bunch of names from each of the 4 sections and hey presto!

So the problem appears to be that there's an upper limit on the number of names that can be in each of the four sections (Names 1 and 2, and Surnames 1 and 2).

I'm not sure exactly what that limit is, but I seem to have got under it when I deleted approximately half the names from each of those sections in your list.

Yep, exactly as I mused above. I had the same problem with SH3Cmdr - the earlier versions of it consisted of merely a comma delimited list of names. I had to re-do it a different way to get around it (not possible here unfortunately without dev support).

You may find the limit is 2047 characters. If you are lucky, it could be as high as 32kb. Trial and error, as you have done, is the best way to find out.

LukeFF · 08-07-07, 01:18 AM

Hmph, so my suspicion that it's the file size is correct. I'm going to have to figure out then, how to go about getting around this limitation.

JScones · 08-07-07, 06:12 AM

Without SH4 dev support (read: a change) you may not be able to...but good luck.

jdkbph · 08-07-07, 07:37 PM

Bad news I'm afraid.

It's definitely the number of names in the list that causes the problem.

The list of first names is easy to pare down just by removing duplicates in equal proportions, and all of the nick names (eg, Joe, Frank, Bill) that have proper name equivalents in the list (eg, Joseph, Francis or Franklin, William).

Unfortunately, the list of last names is not so easy. I first tried reducing the proprtions of the duplicates to about a half, then a third, but it was still too many. Then I removed ALL the duplicates, and it's still too big.

So unless you want to start dropping names entirely (which I understand is not in the spirit of the thing) there's no way that I can see to make it work.

I tried....

JD

LukeFF · 08-07-07, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkbph

Bad news I'm afraid.

It's definitely the number of names in the list that causes the problem...

JD

Grr...Thank you for trying, though. I was going to do what you did, but I guess I'll spare myself the effort. Looks like I might just have to drop some names, but I really don't want to do that.

LukeFF · 03-24-08, 01:01 AM

Finally got around to trying my hand at this again. Using the above-mentioned list of names, I cut out all of the duplicates and then re-loaded the file. Now I get a "Can not find 'Surnames' in 'CrewMemberNames 1'" error when I try to load up a mission with an American sub.

Why do things like this have to be more difficult than in SH3? It's a simple little text file, but the game doesn't like it? Utterly ridiculous.

groomsie · 07-23-08, 12:05 PM

I'm into my 1st career, commencing my 6th War Patrol. I've worked out a system to rotate crew, and thought I'd seen some duplicate names, but in looking over my crew in more detail last night I was shocked to find I have currently on board:

2 Charles Bush
3 Edward D. Mann
2 Otis Finn

Their ranks differ (as they have been on board for different times) but it is clear their base ratings were identical. Clearly the name generation database is too small, and searching today I saw there has been some work on this. However, it appears that it was stopped (or is at least not yet complete). Any update?

Probably too much to hope for a fix in 1.5?

aanker · 07-23-08, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groomsie

I'm into my 1st career, commencing my 6th War Patrol. I've worked out a system to rotate crew, and thought I'd seen some duplicate names, but in looking over my crew in more detail last night I was shocked to find I have currently on board:

2 Charles Bush
3 Edward D. Mann
2 Otis Finn

Their ranks differ (as they have been on board for different times) but it is clear their base ratings were identical. Clearly the name generation database is too small, and searching today I saw there has been some work on this. However, it appears that it was stopped (or is at least not yet complete). Any update?

I can confirm this too in SH4 ver. 1.5 US Pacific Theatre. In Base the names of at least 2 (available) crewmembers are the same as crew onboard, with the same ability levels, but different ranks of course. Despite their high abilities I'm reluctant to recruit them in case having 3 "Kevin H. Schmitt's" affects (triples) their fatigue level or does something else ...

Art

Seminole · 07-24-08, 08:31 AM

Quote:

and General (yes, someone named their kid General

:hmm: ..1970's..early...I served with a guy who's last name was: CUSTER... just guess what his first name was....

...and what POed us most, his felow servicemen, was the fact that with a name like that..it was impossible to come up with the appropriate smartass nickname for the guy.

...which of course we all gave one another...

groomsie · 07-24-08, 08:57 AM

Well, I have not observed fatigue doubling or tripling with duplicate (or triplicate) names so I'm not worried about that, but the skills being so similar leads to placing them in same compartment so that can be confusing.

Seminole, that is pretty funny. The nicknames are a big part of service life. I recall on my 1st class midshipman cruise I was sent to USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) in Japan. I checked onboard after the longest flight (up to that point) in my life, exhausted. The officer of the deck introduced himself as "Brooks Ensign". I was tired and thought, since he was an Ensign, that his last name was Brooks and that it was an odd way to introduce yourself. Only later did I find he was actually Ensign Brooks Ensign, or Ensign Ensign as the crew on 1MC delighted in announcing...

RFB Team · 07-24-08, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groomsie

Their ranks differ (as they have been on board for different times) but it is clear their base ratings were identical. Clearly the name generation database is too small, and searching today I saw there has been some work on this. However, it appears that it was stopped (or is at least not yet complete). Any update?

Probably too much to hope for a fix in 1.5?

The American names database has been greatly updated for the RFB mod. Probably should release it as a stand-alone mod at some point...

groomsie · 07-24-08, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the direction there "RFB_Team"...Once I'd set up with TMO I've been playing with that and haven't downloaded RFB to try yet...I'm working through an issue with freeing up some hard drive space (had decided to buy the U-Boat Expansion, but not enough free space so need to work on that--if anyone can offer tips (off topic) to removing a volume from a RAID-1 mirror set-up drop me a note please).

Once I fix that issue and finish the career I'm on I think I'll need to give RFB a try and see which I prefer.

03-24-08, 01:01 AM	#23
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	Finally got around to trying my hand at this again. Using the above-mentioned list of names, I cut out all of the duplicates and then re-loaded the file. Now I get a "Can not find 'Surnames' in 'CrewMemberNames 1'" error when I try to load up a mission with an American sub. Why do things like this have to be more difficult than in SH3? It's a simple little text file, but the game doesn't like it? Utterly ridiculous. __________________ ROW Sound Effects Contributor RFB Team Leader

07-23-08, 12:05 PM	#24
groomsie Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Stoughton, WI Posts: 140 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Anything more on this topic? I'm into my 1st career, commencing my 6th War Patrol. I've worked out a system to rotate crew, and thought I'd seen some duplicate names, but in looking over my crew in more detail last night I was shocked to find I have currently on board: 2 Charles Bush 3 Edward D. Mann 2 Otis Finn Their ranks differ (as they have been on board for different times) but it is clear their base ratings were identical. Clearly the name generation database is too small, and searching today I saw there has been some work on this. However, it appears that it was stopped (or is at least not yet complete). Any update? Probably too much to hope for a fix in 1.5?

07-24-08, 02:11 PM	#29
groomsie Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Stoughton, WI Posts: 140 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Will need to try RFB Thanks for the direction there "RFB_Team"...Once I'd set up with TMO I've been playing with that and haven't downloaded RFB to try yet...I'm working through an issue with freeing up some hard drive space (had decided to buy the U-Boat Expansion, but not enough free space so need to work on that--if anyone can offer tips (off topic) to removing a volume from a RAID-1 mirror set-up drop me a note please). Once I fix that issue and finish the career I'm on I think I'll need to give RFB a try and see which I prefer.

08-06-07, 09:29 PM	#16
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Not having SH4 installed, I'm not sure of the file format, but if the list of names is stored comma delimited, like the files I did for you, then you may simply have too many names for SH4 to handle. As a test, take all but about 20 or so out. If that works, then this will most likely be the problem. Add them back in chunks until it fails. This is assuming, of course, that your file is set up right to begin with - others can check that possibility first.

08-07-07, 01:18 AM	#19
LukeFF Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Riverside, California Posts: 3,610 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 5	Hmph, so my suspicion that it's the file size is correct. I'm going to have to figure out then, how to go about getting around this limitation.

08-07-07, 06:12 AM	#20
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Without SH4 dev support (read: a change) you may not be able to...but good luck.

08-07-07, 07:37 PM	#21
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	Bad news I'm afraid. It's definitely the number of names in the list that causes the problem. The list of first names is easy to pare down just by removing duplicates in equal proportions, and all of the nick names (eg, Joe, Frank, Bill) that have proper name equivalents in the list (eg, Joseph, Francis or Franklin, William). Unfortunately, the list of last names is not so easy. I first tried reducing the proprtions of the duplicates to about a half, then a third, but it was still too many. Then I removed ALL the duplicates, and it's still too big. So unless you want to start dropping names entirely (which I understand is not in the spirit of the thing) there's no way that I can see to make it work. I tried.... JD

07-24-08, 08:57 AM	#27
groomsie Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Stoughton, WI Posts: 140 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Well, I have not observed fatigue doubling or tripling with duplicate (or triplicate) names so I'm not worried about that, but the skills being so similar leads to placing them in same compartment so that can be confusing. Seminole, that is pretty funny. The nicknames are a big part of service life. I recall on my 1st class midshipman cruise I was sent to USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) in Japan. I checked onboard after the longest flight (up to that point) in my life, exhausted. The officer of the deck introduced himself as "Brooks Ensign". I was tired and thought, since he was an Ensign, that his last name was Brooks and that it was an odd way to introduce yourself. Only later did I find he was actually Ensign Brooks Ensign, or Ensign Ensign as the crew on 1MC delighted in announcing...