Cancel all Biofuels projects - they are a dead end and finially someone spoke up

[joea]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

The flaws of the "first generation" biofuels is well known, actually there's no need for any maths since there are already facts : in Brasil for example the use of crops for fuel had the effect to raise the price of 1st need agricultural products, so much that many "poor" guys working in these farms couldn't afford anymore what they were working to produce.
The "new" biofuels should use only non-edible products from various sources, like some "fast growing" trees that have no other use, also some algae and other vegetal sources.

Not only that, but if you use pyrolyis for the conversion, producing biochar, you not only will get a "green petroleum" out of it but biochar...basically a charcoal which can be used to make soils more fertile and means the process is carbon negative and removes carbon from the air. This is what they think the Amazon Indians did, using slash and char rather than slash and burn to make fertile soils that still exist and may have supported large populations in the past.

Links?

http://www.biochar.org/joomla/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...eldorado.shtml

This links is from one of the leading researchers in the field.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/l...aPretahome.htm

A Canadian company involved in the production of this fuel.

http://www.dynamotive.com/

[Platapus]

Making a fuel out of something that people eat did not sound like a good long term solution. Now if we can make bio fuel out of waste or stuff people can't eat than maybe it could work.

[DeepIron]

Now if we can make bio fuel out of waste or stuff people can't eat than maybe it could work.

Hey, I've known businesses that have been run on bullsh*t for years!

[Letum]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Hey, I've known businesses that have been run on bullsh*t for years!

Pfft!

[STEED]

When I heard about Bio fuels a few years ago I knew damn well the whole idea was a pipe dream.

[joea]

Originally Posted by STEED

When I heard about Bio fuels a few years ago I knew damn well the whole idea was a pipe dream.

Did you read my links? You can make it out of non-food crops...and store CO2 as well.

[Trex]

There's nothing really wrong with the basic biofuel concept, but it sure has been implemented badly, or at least without much foresight.

While I'm not rabid tree-hugger (come see my NUKE THE WHALES bumpersticker), we are indeed living in a fool's paradise. The law of supply and demand is unlikely to be repealed anytime soon, so gas is not going to get cheaper. Given the rise of third-world markets, it is going to get much more expensive.

Ideally, we need to come up with a transportation system sufficiently flexible to meet the need, cheap enough that people will buy it and (to make sure it gets past the neo-luddites) doesn't have any effect on climate. It would also be a nice bonus if we could make it happen without being dependent on somebody else for our fuel supply. Gas won't do that, nor will biofuels. Electrical cars do not yet have the range or speed and too many people overlook that that electricity has to come from somewhere with its own set of ecochallenges. Hydrogen looks good (there's an elegant simplicity to 2H2 + O2 à 2H2O) but I was reading an article last week where somebody was seriously claiming that large-scale use of hyrdrogen as a fuel would cause a water shortage (Shake yer head, junior. Hear anythin?), which sort of illustrates the hurdles even good technology faces. Moreover, the refining and infrastructure problems are enormous.

(Somebody once asked the obvious question about automobiles. Let's pretend that it's a new invention and the inventor is trying to make the pitch for it to be adopted. "Well, in return for your accepting 100,000 deaths a year from collisions and untold numbers more from respiratory disease, turning thousands of square miles of productive famrland into paved desert and skewing our economy in favour of people who really don't like us, you'll get individual convenience." Like that would sell.

Solution? Damfino, but blind optimism is not a viable strategy.

[sonar732]

Living next to Audrian County the Biofuel capital of Missouri, I am scarred of this topic. I've thought about for a while to utilize the "fat method" of taking used fat and burning it as fuel.

Just the look on the faces of people when I drive by with my car smelling like a mexican resturant one day and McDonalds the next.

:rotfl::rotfl:

[August]

Originally Posted by Trex

Let's pretend that it's a new invention and the inventor is trying to make the pitch for it to be adopted. "Well, in return for your accepting 100,000 deaths a year from collisions and untold numbers more from respiratory disease, turning thousands of square miles of productive famrland into paved desert and skewing our economy in favour of people who really don't like us, you'll get individual convenience." Like that would sell.

Well compared to the pre automobile era of 100,000 deaths a year from train accidents, extensive pollution from coal run locomotives, and rail road tracks slicing through the countryside, the automobile might not be viewed as negatively as you may think.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Hey, I've known businesses that have been run on bullsh*t for years!

LMAO

[STEED]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

Hey, I've known businesses that have been run on bullsh*t for years!

So do I, it's called UK PLC.

This country is all gloss and no substance.

[joea]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Making a fuel out of something that people eat did not sound like a good long term solution. Now if we can make bio fuel out of waste or stuff people can't eat than maybe it could work.

Yup, read my links....so we could grow corn and use the rest for biofuel and this biochar which can be used to make soil more fertile and store excess co2.