Tesla: ‘There’s almost no reason to have a gas car’

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Sorry, Markus, that's not going to happen. Downsizing batteries/accumulators without downsizing the capacity has it's limits, and we already are quite close to these limits, as long as we stick to electrochemical reactions, and for those there are no alternatives in sight. There are a few theories about using crystals as energy storages, but that's barely more than science fiction.

I knew you would come up with a response like this one.

It's a dream I have had for almost a decade now.

The idea/dream came when I read an article about Nano/bacteria batteries developed by M.I.T. in winter 2012. Since then I haven't heard anything about these batteries which I see as being dropped,so they has to be reinvented.

These NANO/bacteria batteries had following things compared to a 12 V car battery

(From memory)

weight 1/20 of a Car battery
Capacity 20-30.000 higher
Can't short circuit
Loading time less than 5 min(can't remember exact time)
Fully loaded 12.00000v each time.
No leaking electron

Edit
I made a search and found that there are companies who make these NANO batteries.....to smartphones a.s.o not bigger ones to cars.
End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

I could imagine - layman that I amn - to have flat slot accumulators that ciover the bottom of cars like it is the case today, and instead of recharging them, the full batter ygets replaced at a "gas station". like you switched cassettes in tape recorders. In asia theyx expeirment with thos, esoecialyl in China I read . The extracted battery then gets charged separately. The process, fully automatised could last just a slong as it takes to fuel a gas engoined car. How it is with themogistics needed for such a system, I do not assess, however. But the Chinese trying this, seem to think it can be managed, or not? Of course it needs standardization of accumulator specs and connectors.

VW's new boss, btw, has announced the company will no longer follow all-electric philosophy exclusively, and he said in his vision gas engines still have a future. Realism sets in, I say. The car model plans VW had, with a standardized default electricity platform that then gets further individualised for very model, already have been tackled. VW no longer plans to be all-electric. That is probably owed to the stupid German energy policy with the electritiy supply security being intentionally eroded by the current coalition government. Its stupid to make all your products all electric in a coutnry that becomes more and more unsafe regarding its electricity supply.

The German "visions" will collapse in full. Aber sowas von...! Too bad that I will need to witness it at close range.


My emergency solar battery of 2 kWh would not have gotten recharged much in the past 2-3 weeks. Dark skies at day, no sun.

[Ostfriese]

Exchanging accumulators is not a new idea, and it's technologically possible. But even if you manage to standardize the system down to a single type of cell block (with only different numbers of them in different cars) it won't become economical. It simply requires too much space to store all the spare accumulators.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by August

With all the stories about EVs being useless after being submerged I was just wondering.

EV's are useless in cold weather, range decreases by 40% (except for Ford Lightning that loses 70%). they also lose range when towing a trailer, They are also useless for long distance travel.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Exchanging accumulators is not a new idea, and it's technologically possible. But even if you manage to standardize the system down to a single type of cell block (with only different numbers of them in different cars) it won't become economical. It simply requires too much space to store all the spare accumulators.

Yeah, I feared the challenge with this approach lies in the logistics. Still, theChinese - I think it were the Chinese amongst all those Asians - still run this idea, as an experiment.



The way it is now - pausing a ride for 15-45 minutes to chgarge up, is not pratcial either. Better riding on horses then and changing the horses at post stations along the trail.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by MaDef

EV's are useless in cold weather, range decreases by 40% (except for Ford Lightning that loses 70%). they also lose range when towing a trailer, They are also useless for long distance travel.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[MaDef]

Which word is that?

EV = Electric Vehicle

Range = Distance said EV can go on a full charge.

[Platapus]

useless

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Which word is that?

EV = Electric Vehicle

Range = Distance said EV can go on a full charge.

First time I saw this abbr. EV I thought it meant electron volt

Then I remembered electron volt is eV.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by Platapus

useless

"Almost" useless then?

[Platapus]

Reduced capability.


A friend of mine has a Tesla and she drives from DC to GA and from DC to Maine and she never had a problem finding fast chargers.



During the coldest time in the winter her normally 300+ mile radius is reduced to about 200 miles.



Reduced capability but hardly useless.

[Skybird]

FOCUS writes:

------------------------
Dramatic Tesla crash heralds end of Elon Musk's career

If Elon Musk were a celestial body, he would probably be described as a comet burning up before the eyes of a world audience. The comet's nucleus has already melted, and the tail of the stock price, visible from afar, illuminates the descent.

Within a year, the share lost 66 percent of its value. Around 240 billion U.S. dollars in stock market value were wiped out.

Parallel to the stock market value, Elon Musk's personal reputation has also suffered. Once celebrated like a prophet, the entrepreneur is now perceived in many places as a high-tech hooligan. Nobel laureate Professor Paul Krugman recently wrote on Page 1 of the New York Times, "I even wouldn't entrust my cat to this man."

There are essentially five reasons for the downfall:

1. Tesla has lost its monopoly on setting prices.

The Tesla Model Y Long Range with all-wheel drive now has to be knocked off at a bargain price in China. The automaker has just reduced the car by 6,656 euros. It is the second price reduction within a short time. Tesla already lowered prices in the Middle Kingdom in October.

In Germany, it's the same game. In November, 30 percent of all new Tesla cars were registered to rental car companies. Auto expert Prof. Ferdinand Dudenhöffer says: "The rising rental company registrations are a clear sign of incentives and discounts that Tesla is using to intervene in the market."

2. sales figures in China collapse

The pricing offensive is the result of competition that no longer admires Tesla, but attacks it. While the market for "new energy vehicles" in the Middle Kingdom reached an all-time high in December 2022, demand for Teslas has slumped. Data from the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) shows Tesla sold 55,796 units in December, 44 percent fewer cars than in November.

Chinese supplier BYD is Tesla's strongest competitor in terms of sales of pure electric cars. If plug-in hybrids are included, BYD has now even become the global market leader.

The German automotive industry has also woken up and now offers technologically sophisticated electric cars that - like Porsche's Taycan or Mercedes' EQS - are superior to a Tesla vehicle. Meanwhile, Germany's entire auto budgets for research and development are flowing into what was once the niche segment of e-mobility.

3. Tesla has lost its innovation leadership

"At least in the U.S., we want to introduce autonomous driving technology on a large scale, and possibly in Europe, depending on regulatory approval."

Musk had promised this in August of last year.

The truth is: The Chinese competition has overtaken it in the field of autonomous driving. While Baidu offers robot cabs without drivers on public roads in China, only Level 2 semi-autonomous driving is possible with a Tesla. Level 2 means that it must be ensured that the driver always keeps his hands on the steering wheel.

Even the German manufacturers are now further ahead. Mercedes offers an Autodrive pilot in its S-Class that enables automated driving at Level 3, which may also be used on local highways. For the first time, humans relinquish control. The driver only has to potentially be able to intervene.

4 Technological lead in batteries is gone

BYD now has the greater battery know-how. The Chinese answer to the Model 3 is the BYD Seal. It is supposed to score with a range of over 700 kilometers. By way of comparison, according to the latest ADAC test, the standard range version of the Model 3 can be driven just 415 kilometers without recharging, assuming a moderate driving style.

5 Twitter deal has a negative impact on Tesla

Musk's Twitter deal revealed a playful trait in the 51-year-old that no longer seems cool, but "dumb" in the face of the entrepreneurial challenge at Tesla. "Musk is denied social competence," says car expert Dudenhöffer. As a result, he is no longer considered irreplaceable. There is already speculation among investors about his successor.

Musk is visibly withdrawing from the company and, according to Reuters, is putting Tom Zhu, his previous head of the China business, in place at least as a possible deputy. Bloomberg reported yesterday that an Icelandic investor is demanding a Key Person Risk Report. Important to know: Musk is already no longer the master of the company. Last year, he dumped a good $40 billion worth of Tesla shares, leaving him with a mere 14.84 percent stake in the company.

Conclusion: Elon Musk's farewell has begun. The aura of the invulnerable has faded. The competition was only hypnotized for a historic moment of shock - and then agreed on the favorite motto of all slashers: "Don't hate, imitate."
-------------------------

[Skybird]

I could say "Nobody will ever make me seating myself in a Tesla", but that does not chnage the fact that this thing is not only a risk to its passengers, but also to other people on feet or in other cars around.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/..._x_tr_pto=wapp

A Tesla insider leaked around 100 gigabytes of confidential data from Tesla's IT system to the "Handelsblatt". The 23,000 files include salary information from Tesla employees, but also confidential documents about accidents involving Tesla's driver assistance systems.

Autipilots for trains and things on rails? Okay, I cna live with that. But a car in the public traffic space has a myriad of situaitosn and events to expect. I think it is a bad idea to leave navigating in such unpredictable cirucmstances to an AP. Heck, even a landing airplane has less variables and possibilities to consider.

Some weeks ago the demonstrated on TV a test of the autonomous driving of a Tesla, and they filmed it from behind the steering wheel. Well, it did not crash, but its manouvers sometimes were at the last second and then quite abruptly, same for turning into turns: sometimes it was okay. Sometimes it was simply dangerous both for the car and for incoming traffic. A relaxed travel experience looks different. Very.


What also pisses me big time is the customer policy of Tesla. But Musk is famous for having piss-off manners, doesn't he. And other companies practice the same way.

[Rockstar]

Some weeks ago the demonstrated on TV a test of the autonomous driving of a Tesla, and they filmed it from behind the steering wheel. Well, it did not crash, but its manouvers sometimes were at the last second and then quite abruptly, same for turning into turns: sometimes it was okay. Sometimes it was simply dangerous both for the car and for incoming traffic. A relaxed travel experience looks different. Very.

Seems to me the authors of that article are making out to be worse than what is because they were not operating the vehicle properly and were the ones placing themselves and others in jeopardy. If people rely on the medias expectations of how a Tesla is supposed to operate then they will eventually be the cause of an accident.

Owner/operators of these cars need to read the owners manual and accept full responsibility for its operation.

From Tesla X MODEL owners manual. I presume others have the same warnings.

Ensure all cameras and sensors (if equipped) are clean before each drive. See Cleaning Cameras and Sensors for more information. Dirty cameras and sensors, as well as environmental conditions such as rain and faded lane markings, can affect Autopilot performance.


Limitations

Many factors can impact the performance of Autopilot components, causing them to be unable to function as intended. These include (but are not limited to):

Poor visibility (due to heavy rain, snow, fog, etc.).

Bright light (due to oncoming headlights, direct sunlight, etc.).

Damage or obstructions caused by mud, ice, snow, etc.

Interference or obstruction by object(s) mounted onto the vehicle (such as a bike rack).

Obstruction caused by applying excessive paint or adhesive products (such as wraps, stickers, rubber coating, etc.) onto the vehicle.

Traffic signs that do not conform to standard recognizable formats, such as digital or temporary speed signs.

Narrow or winding roads.

A damaged or misaligned body panel.

Use of gray or aftermarket glass.

Interference from other equipment that generates ultrasonic waves.
Extremely hot or cold temperatures.

Warning
The list above does not represent an exhaustive list of situations that may interfere with proper operation of Autopilot components. Never depend on these components to keep you safe. It is the driver's responsibility to stay alert, drive safely, and be in control of the vehicle at all times.

Warning
Autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering yoke (or steering wheel) at all times.

Warning
Autosteer is intended for use on controlled-access highways with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering yoke (or steering wheel) and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death.

To ensure the various Autopilot components can provide information that is as accurate as possible, keep cameras and sensors (if equipped) clean and free of obstructions, condensation, or damage (see Cleaning).

Condensation can form inside the camera enclosures, especially if you park your vehicle outside in cold or wet conditions. The instrument cluster may display an alert stating that a camera is blocked and that some or all Autopilot features may be temporarily restricted until the camera vision is clear. To proactively dry the condensation, precondition the cabin by setting it to a warm temperature, turning the windshield defroster on, and directing the front air vents toward the door pillars (see Mobile App).

[August]

The list above does not represent an exhaustive list of situations that may interfere with proper operation of Autopilot components. Never depend on these components to keep you safe. It is the driver's responsibility to stay alert, drive safely, and be in control of the vehicle at all times.

Kinda defeats the whole reason for a self driving car.