Base Time 2018

[propbeanie]

Them fellers are into that kind of stuff big-time. Makes it easier for us, eh?

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Them fellers are into that kind of stuff big-time. Makes it easier for us, eh?

Here is another TWEAK GUIDE for nVidia GPUs. It explains each setting and why/why not.


http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_1.html

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Them fellers are into that kind of stuff big-time. Makes it easier for us, eh?

yes, they are. don't give a hoot about frame rates. BUT (notice the big but) i think it is perfectly fine if others want to pursue that aspect of the game.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Them fellers are into that kind of stuff big-time. Makes it easier for us, eh?

I just discovered a BIGGY. I'm not sure if this has ever been isolated or reported before.
It happened like this. I was starting up SH4 FOTRSUv80 RS2 this morning and I loaded up the save game that I saved last night. As sometimes happens, the RADIO is already playing when the scene opens in the control room. Other than that, nothing seems out of whack. Normally, I would either back out to the Main Menu, or back out to Windows and try again.

This time, I decided to try, as I sometimes do, loading an earlier save. I did, and when the scene opened in the control room the RADIO was NOT playing. OK, good, now I'll load up the save game where I left off last night.
One save game was made right at SUNSET. The other save game was a NOON save game. I am playing at a combination of 1x and 512x time compression.

NOW, here is the discovery. When I loaded up the NOON save game and it opened to the Control Room scene and the RADIO was off, I immediately loaded up the SUNSET save game and when it loaded, I started playing from the MAP (F5) and set TC at 512x. Shortly thereafter I get a RADAR CONTACT. So I order a Crash Dive and then go to external view. That is when I noticed that it was broad daylight! I mean like NOON broad daylight.
OK, when I had loaded up the SUNSET save game (the second time), and it started, I neglected to notice that, one, the lighting in the control room was daytime, and, the lighting on the MAP was also daytime.

What I had inadvertently discovered is the source of the very whacked out Base Time differentials. Propbeanie, I remember you mentioning this before that you also noticed some Base Time shifts when loading and/or reloading previous save games.


Had I continued to play, Base Time would've lost ALL meaning because, by loading the NOON save game, then upon opening the control room scene and immediately loading the SUNSET save, (and not noticing that Base Time vs Celestial Sphere was WAY out of whack,) then ALL of my subsequent save games would've been based on the whacked out Base Time vs Celestial Sphere.


I was able to repeat this several times and every single time, the error occurred. I have the save games that I used in case you are interested in trying, but I think you can test this yourselves by,


1. Starting SH4 and loading a save game that you know was made near SUNSET or at NIGHT. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are red. (Night)
Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 which was correct according to my Lat. Long position referenced to my Midway Base.)


2. When the (Step 1) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load a save game that you know was made near NOON or during DAYLIGHT hours. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 1215 which was NOON at my Midway Base.)
I don't care what my local noon is/was. That Base Time is where I make my save games when playing. For example, I make saves at SR, SS, NOON, MR, MS, and MIDNIGHT.


3. When the (Step 2) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load the save game from Step 1. When the CONTROL ROOM scene opens, the CONTROL ROOM lights are still white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 just as it was in Step 1.)



4. Go to external view and see the sun high in the sky even though your Base Time is indicating sunset or night time (for you.)


Now, I tried to correct the error by backing out to the MAIN menu and again loading my Sunset Save. Nope, that didn't get ride of the Celestial Sphere displacement caused by the above steps.
Then, I closed SH4 to Windows. I did not restart the computer nor did I log out of being the current user. I restarted SH4 and reloaded my SUNSET save and all was right with the world. My Base Time was correct and my Celestial Sphere was in sync with my save game.


I hope that you have all been able to follow this. If you have, then you can begin to see the implications and how it absolutely affects game play.
If I had continued on my Patrol without restarting SH4, my combined Celestial Sphere displacement caused by Steps 1 -4 above, and, the typical (and CORRECT) Base Time displacement from Midway, would've made it completely and utterly impossible to calculate Base Time and know whether it is DAY or NIGHT for the ENEMY. Nor would I be able to predict SR, SS, MR, or MS.



I was able to duplicate this error several times before I decided to post my observations.


Propbeanie, this explains your observations. I don't believe this is a FOTRSUv80 RS2 issue. I believe that it is a VANILLA Game issue. I'll try to verify this soon.



All because of the RADIO playing on LOAD game, which happens from time to time.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

I just discovered a BIGGY. I'm not sure if this has ever been isolated or reported before.
It happened like this. I was starting up SH4 FOTRSUv80 RS2 this morning and I loaded up the save game that I saved last night. As sometimes happens, the RADIO is already playing when the scene opens in the control room. Other than that, nothing seems out of whack. Normally, I would either back out to the Main Menu, or back out to Windows and try again.

This time, I decided to try, as I sometimes do, loading an earlier save. I did, and when the scene opened in the control room the RADIO was NOT playing. OK, good, now I'll load up the save game where I left off last night.
One save game was made right at SUNSET. The other save game was a NOON save game. I am playing at a combination of 1x and 512x time compression.

NOW, here is the discovery. When I loaded up the NOON save game and it opened to the Control Room scene and the RADIO was off, I immediately loaded up the SUNSET save game and when it loaded, I started playing from the MAP (F5) and set TC at 512x. Shortly thereafter I get a RADAR CONTACT. So I order a Crash Dive and then go to external view. That is when I noticed that it was broad daylight! I mean like NOON broad daylight.
OK, when I had loaded up the SUNSET save game (the second time), and it started, I neglected to notice that, one, the lighting in the control room was daytime, and, the lighting on the MAP was also daytime.

What I had inadvertently discovered is the source of the very whacked out Base Time differentials. Propbeanie, I remember you mentioning this before that you also noticed some Base Time shifts when loading and/or reloading previous save games.


Had I continued to play, Base Time would've lost ALL meaning because, by loading the NOON save game, then upon opening the control room scene and immediately loading the SUNSET save, (and not noticing that Base Time vs Celestial Sphere was WAY out of whack,) then ALL of my subsequent save games would've been based on the whacked out Base Time vs Celestial Sphere.


I was able to repeat this several times and every single time, the error occurred. I have the save games that I used in case you are interested in trying, but I think you can test this yourselves by,


1. Starting SH4 and loading a save game that you know was made near SUNSET or at NIGHT. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are red. (Night)
Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 which was correct according to my Lat. Long position referenced to my Midway Base.)


2. When the (Step 1) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load a save game that you know was made near NOON or during DAYLIGHT hours. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 1215 which was NOON at my Midway Base.)
I don't care what my local noon is/was. That Base Time is where I make my save games when playing. For example, I make saves at SR, SS, NOON, MR, MS, and MIDNIGHT.


3. When the (Step 2) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load the save game from Step 1. When the CONTROL ROOM scene opens, the CONTROL ROOM lights are still white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 just as it was in Step 1.)



4. Go to external view and see the sun high in the sky even though your Base Time is indicating sunset or night time (for you.)


Now, I tried to correct the error by backing out to the MAIN menu and again loading my Sunset Save. Nope, that didn't get ride of the Celestial Sphere displacement caused by the above steps.
Then, I closed SH4 to Windows. I did not restart the computer nor did I log out of being the current user. I restarted SH4 and reloaded my SUNSET save and all was right with the world. My Base Time was correct and my Celestial Sphere was in sync with my save game.


I hope that you have all been able to follow this. If you have, then you can begin to see the implications and how it absolutely affects game play.
If I had continued on my Patrol without restarting SH4, my combined Celestial Sphere displacement caused by Steps 1 -4 above, and, the typical (and CORRECT) Base Time displacement from Midway, would've made it completely and utterly impossible to calculate Base Time and know whether it is DAY or NIGHT for the ENEMY. Nor would I be able to predict SR, SS, MR, or MS.



I was able to duplicate this error several times before I decided to post my observations.


Propbeanie, this explains your observations. I don't believe this is a FOTRSUv80 RS2 issue. I believe that it is a VANILLA Game issue. I'll try to verify this soon.



All because of the RADIO playing on LOAD game, which happens from time to time.

That can happen with or without anything else going on, from what I remember. I've encountered that before without opening a 2nd Save. The game just gets confused sometimes. Thankfully, not real often. You especially have to be careful with add-in radio & grammafone mods. There is a little "mod" app to check them... now, where did I have that?...

If you want to try this - copy your Save folder before you do though - but do like you did with Step 1, Step 2, & Step 3, but Save sometime after Step 3, and that Save is borked* for the duration. Your clock will be off until you end patrol. Talk about messing with your head. "Let's see, it's 2230, nothing on sonar. I should be safe to surface. 'Surface the boat' - 'Incoming aircraft!' - 'We're under attack, sir!' Boom! Boom! 'We're taking damage, Sir!' - 'Medic!'"...

* For you youngsters, look up Robert Bork...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

If you want to try this - copy your Save folder before you do though - but do like you did with Step 1, Step 2, & Step 3, but Save sometime after Step 3, and that Save is borked* for the duration.

* For you youngsters, look up Robert Bork...

sorry, PB, wrong application of that word.
maybe you need to look it up.


what you might of said was: but Save sometime after Step 3, and that Save is FUBARed* for the duration.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You especially have to be careful with add-in radio & grammafone mods. There is a little "mod" app to check them... now, where did I have that?...

If you want to try this - copy your Save folder before you do though - but do like you did with Step 1, Step 2, & Step 3, but Save sometime after Step 3, and that Save is borked* for the duration. Your clock will be off until you end patrol. Talk about messing with your head. "Let's see, it's 2230, nothing on sonar. I should be safe to surface. 'Surface the boat' - 'Incoming aircraft!' - 'We're under attack, sir!' Boom! Boom! 'We're taking damage, Sir!' - 'Medic!'"...

* For you youngsters, look up Robert Bork...

For the "mod" app, do you mean Radio Manager?


Anyway, I have just performed several tests. I could not get the error to occur in WOTP or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP. I tried to keep everything the same as possible, compatibility settings, running as admin, etc. In each iteration, I started a new career , 1944, Pearl Harbor command, Balao, etc. etc.
I started a new career in FOTRSUv80 RC2 and made three saves, daylight, SS and midnight. The error happened.
I'm still trying to isolate the issue. So stand by for more information.


The thing is, I could get it to replicate in FOTRSUv80 RC2, but using the same procedures, I could not get it to replicate in WOTP, or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP, at least, not yet.

This is a weird one. I'll try what you suggest and report back again.

[propbeanie]

Replies inside "quote" are in blue - Orange for emphasis of FrontRunner's text:

Originally Posted by Front Runner

For the "mod" app, do you mean Radio Manager? - Yes!


Anyway, I have just performed several tests. I could not get the error to occur in WOTP or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP. - velly intellesting... I tried to keep everything the same as possible, compatibility settings, running as admin, etc. In each iteration, I started a new career , 1944, Pearl Harbor command, Balao, etc. etc.
I started a new career in FOTRSUv80 RC2 and made three saves, daylight, SS and midnight. The error happened.
I'm still trying to isolate the issue. So stand by for more information.


The thing is, I could get it to replicate in FOTRSUv80 RC2, but using the same procedures, I could not get it to replicate in WOTP, or TMO/RSRD/OTC/IP, at least, not yet.

This is a weird one. I'll try what you suggest and report back again.

I have seen this outside of FotRSU, but not very often - but it may have been FOTRS years ago... (A clue! A clue!) Thanks for all your testing FrontRunner.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Replies inside "quote" are in blue - Orange for emphasis of FrontRunner's text:

I have seen this outside of FotRSU, but not very often - but it may have been FOTRS years ago... (A clue! A clue!) Thanks for all your testing FrontRunner.

OK. Update......
After deleting and/or archiving all of my Document/Save Folders for all iterations of SH4, deleting all copies of the game, then reinstalling a pristine copy of SH4 v1.5 and applying only the FOTRSUv80 RC2, I was able to replicate the error described above by starting a new career, 1944 Pearl Harbor Command, Balao Class boat, outside the harbor. I then played at 512x time compression until I had made 4 saves. Outside the harbor (daylight), at Sunset, at Midnight and at Sunrise. When I close FOTRSUv80 and then start the game again, any one of the individual save games load correctly only if I load them from the Main Menu and only that one time.
If I then try to load any other save game from either the "Esc" key menu while in game, or, selecting Main Menu from the "Esc" key menu and loading from there, the loaded game Celestial Sphere is now seriously out of sync with Base Time. (i.e. Broad daylight at midnight.)


If I Exit to Windows and then start the game again, each individual save game loads correctly but only that once. So, I only get one shot to load the game I am playing. If I decide to load any other save game, while in game, or from the Main Menu, the second one loads with the Celestial Sphere FUBAR!

The only way to get the correct save game to load is to close the game, restart, and load that one game only!

I was unable to reproduce this error in a fresh install of Wolves of the Pacific (Vanilla) using the same parameters.

Next stop......I'll try FOTRSUv71 as I don't remember this happening while I was saving and loading my games while 1x testing.

This does appear to be an FOTRSU issue though. I am looking for someone else to confirm.

For now, I'm done testing for the day.....

[propbeanie]

If I can out of the knee-deep weeds, briars and brambles we're stuck in right now, I'll give similar a whirl FrontRunner... I'm trying to imagine what would do that "time shift"... we've had issues with the AI settings, to the point that it almost seems "backwards", like day is night, and night is day, as far as enemy AI is concerned... is it related?... is it Area 51?... maybe only The Shadow knows...

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

OK.

Next stop......I'll try FOTRSUv71 as I don't remember this happening while I was saving and loading my games while 1x testing.

This does appear to be an FOTRSU issue though. I am looking for someone else to confirm.

Update.....I just tested it in FORTSUv71 and I got the same results as in FOTRSUv80 RC2. I guess that shows how infrequently I rely on a previously saved game while in game.

As long as you make serial saves along the way, you can always quit the game, start again and load the save game you wish.

However, as Propbeanie said, if you are playing, and go back, (or forward), to any other save game, and make subsequent save games, ALL of those subsequent save games will be erroneous. You can still go back to a save game previous to that time and THOSE save games will still be OK.

So far, this issue seems to be isolated to FOTRSU supermod.

Propbeanie, which FOTRSU team member might I PM with to assist in finding and fixing this particular issue?

Next stop......I'll try TMO/RSRD.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Front Runner

I just discovered a BIGGY. I'm not sure if this has ever been isolated or reported before.
It happened like this. I was starting up SH4 FOTRSUv80 RS2 this morning and I loaded up the save game that I saved last night. As sometimes happens, the RADIO is already playing when the scene opens in the control room. Other than that, nothing seems out of whack. Normally, I would either back out to the Main Menu, or back out to Windows and try again.

This time, I decided to try, as I sometimes do, loading an earlier save. I did, and when the scene opened in the control room the RADIO was NOT playing. OK, good, now I'll load up the save game where I left off last night.
One save game was made right at SUNSET. The other save game was a NOON save game. I am playing at a combination of 1x and 512x time compression.

NOW, here is the discovery. When I loaded up the NOON save game and it opened to the Control Room scene and the RADIO was off, I immediately loaded up the SUNSET save game and when it loaded, I started playing from the MAP (F5) and set TC at 512x. Shortly thereafter I get a RADAR CONTACT. So I order a Crash Dive and then go to external view. That is when I noticed that it was broad daylight! I mean like NOON broad daylight.
OK, when I had loaded up the SUNSET save game (the second time), and it started, I neglected to notice that, one, the lighting in the control room was daytime, and, the lighting on the MAP was also daytime.

What I had inadvertently discovered is the source of the very whacked out Base Time differentials. Propbeanie, I remember you mentioning this before that you also noticed some Base Time shifts when loading and/or reloading previous save games.


Had I continued to play, Base Time would've lost ALL meaning because, by loading the NOON save game, then upon opening the control room scene and immediately loading the SUNSET save, (and not noticing that Base Time vs Celestial Sphere was WAY out of whack,) then ALL of my subsequent save games would've been based on the whacked out Base Time vs Celestial Sphere.


I was able to repeat this several times and every single time, the error occurred. I have the save games that I used in case you are interested in trying, but I think you can test this yourselves by,


1. Starting SH4 and loading a save game that you know was made near SUNSET or at NIGHT. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are red. (Night)
Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 which was correct according to my Lat. Long position referenced to my Midway Base.)


2. When the (Step 1) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load a save game that you know was made near NOON or during DAYLIGHT hours. Notice that the CONTROL ROOM lights are white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 1215 which was NOON at my Midway Base.)
I don't care what my local noon is/was. That Base Time is where I make my save games when playing. For example, I make saves at SR, SS, NOON, MR, MS, and MIDNIGHT.


3. When the (Step 2) CONTROL ROOM scene opens, before you do anything else, load the save game from Step 1. When the CONTROL ROOM scene opens, the CONTROL ROOM lights are still white. (Daylight) Note your Base Time. (Mine was 2036 just as it was in Step 1.)



4. Go to external view and see the sun high in the sky even though your Base Time is indicating sunset or night time (for you.)


Now, I tried to correct the error by backing out to the MAIN menu and again loading my Sunset Save. Nope, that didn't get ride of the Celestial Sphere displacement caused by the above steps.
Then, I closed SH4 to Windows. I did not restart the computer nor did I log out of being the current user. I restarted SH4 and reloaded my SUNSET save and all was right with the world. My Base Time was correct and my Celestial Sphere was in sync with my save game.


I hope that you have all been able to follow this. If you have, then you can begin to see the implications and how it absolutely affects game play.
If I had continued on my Patrol without restarting SH4, my combined Celestial Sphere displacement caused by Steps 1 -4 above, and, the typical (and CORRECT) Base Time displacement from Midway, would've made it completely and utterly impossible to calculate Base Time and know whether it is DAY or NIGHT for the ENEMY. Nor would I be able to predict SR, SS, MR, or MS.



I was able to duplicate this error several times before I decided to post my observations.


Propbeanie, this explains your observations. I don't believe this is a FOTRSUv80 RS2 issue. I believe that it is a VANILLA Game issue. I'll try to verify this soon.



All because of the RADIO playing on LOAD game, which happens from time to time.

Runner...
so you are saying that, under certain circumstances, the main application will carryover celestial time from one game instance to another? so the ubisoft programmers forgot to reset game-time from one save to the next save? morons.

that is an amazing discovery.

[Front Runner]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

Runner...
so you are saying that, under certain circumstances, the main application will carryover celestial time from one game instance to another? so the ubisoft programmers forgot to reset game-time from one save to the next save? morons.

that is an amazing discovery.

I'm not ready to blame Ubisoft programmers. I could not reproduce this in Vanilla WOTP. This appears to happen under certain circumstances. I am deleting everything except PRISTINE installation. I am deleting all of my SH4 folders in Documents. I'm going to install and test each iteration of the game carefully.

Stand by.....