UK Politics Thread

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

TBH Sky and despite having been a member of the Labour Party for 25 years (I left the day after Corbyn became leader) I'll never be a Tory supporter but Theresa May has earned my respect and admiration as the kind of leader one could rely on in a crisis, perhaps she modelled herself on Thatcher, who can say?

Her achilles heel IMHO is her failure to take on the advice of her advisors and tendancy to march into the eye of the storm despite alternative strategies being available.

It is now that the country should unite behind her because we are after all supposed to be a UNITED KINGDOM.

There is one thing I am steadfast about, if it is a no deal ending then not one penny of British taxpayers money should be handed over, in fact, the UK should demand a rebate towards the almost £200 billion debt we owed for many a year, the cost we paid to free Europe from some of their current allies.....a bit ironic really when you think about it.

Having said all that, I'm still optimistic some form of deal will be struck but Parliament will be the decider of the ultimate outcome.

I must disagree. As I said earlier in some post above, I doubt that any other PM could have eaccheved more inBrussel, so alteratie strategies for negotiatians imo would not have made any difference. I explained why. And I do not accuse May for having failed here, it was mission impossible for day one on. But she handed so many concessions over without getting anything in return, that one really must ask for which side she has worked: the UK, or the EU?. And then she agreed to a draft deal of which she should have known, if she had any sanity in her reasoning, that she would never, NEVER, get it through in this state and condition. She signed the deal with the EU - and this was one of her biggest mistakes, becasue this signature now is the prime alibi for the EU to not renegotiate a deal most favourable for itself where all critical issues were decided on behalf of interests and demands of the EU. It is a dictate of conditions, no mutual deal, and it makes quite some abuse of the UK's weakened position. May wasted precious time, and increased these vunerablities needlessly. I had another expectation of British politics and attitudes, but maybe I fell for some clichées there. The way May handed it all, to me looks very - German. Softy, plenty of wishy-washy, paying endlessly, and not daring to mount own threats, being led by a imperial demand for deiciding things by "consensus".

Dreamdancing it was for most of the time. And now it is wakeup time.

To celebrate her for these pityful results, like the author of that article does, is totally unrewarded. The neverending bombardment of criticism of her management and handling in my view is justified.

And as I also have said earlier, I absolutely question the honesty of her motives. And I meant that serious.

I also think that many members of the political caste will dpened their vote not so much on logic or reason or their assessment of what is best for the country, but their personal career interests. This seems to have already poisoned most of the process in the past 18 months.


May's plan:


.................................................. .................................................. ...................................."Sooner or later they break their legs..."

[Jimbuna]

The deal as is presently on the table will never pass a Commons vote nor do I belive the politicians will allow a no deal so the options remaining will be a Norway Plus type of deal or maybe even a general election.

[Skybird]

May's precious:

[STEED]

MayBot was a disaster at the Home Office and as a PM is she a bloody joke! If she is the best the Tories can offer then we are on a sinking ship. Don't tell kick the can down the road as I beg for a bone from the EU MayBot.

Nice one Sky.

Geheime Verschlußsache.

[Skybird]

If you want to spank him, Jim, I hold him for you.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you want to spank him, Jim, I hold him for you.

Who?

[Jimbuna]

Now entering from left of the stage...the Lying King.

Theresa May has attacked one of her predecessors - accusing Tony Blair of "undermining" the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum.

She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46582705

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Who?

Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.

Yeah, I can read edits, deletions etc. and never noticed initially but just as well common sense prevailed.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Yeah, I can read edits, deletions etc. and never noticed initially but just as well common sense prevailed.

Holy cow - Jedi powers...!!!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Holy cow - Jedi powers...!!!

No, just moderators priviledges to assist in keeping the boards within the rules

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nevermind, he edited it meanwhile. Was a bit off course.

Something about a German WW1 victory and the death of the stuck up British Empire. Not sure what that has got to do with throwing the book at MayBot but hey I don't care. When you drink great coffee who cares.

Looks lke RUNAWAY MayBot is not going to hold the Brexit vote next week.

[Catfish]

Re Jim, sorry i had not enough time to react to the answer yet

I'll do my best to answer the above whilst readily admitting I'm pro Brexit.....

Who would have thunk lol

Patience with May eventually came to an end when Parliament (who are sovereign on such matters) grew tired of her weakness and inability to negotiate an acceptable deal, furthermore giving the nation a sense of a bullying position by the EU.

I see no weakness with May. What is an acceptable deal, what exactly does England want? "Nebulous" is exactly the word that describes England's "position". What is this position? The EU's position encompassing that of 26 other nations have been clear from day one. The only thing that changed is getting the demand down to 39 billions, from the former 100, as if that was nothing. Lots of projects will not be finished now because of this concession, including some in Ireland, Scotland, and England. A lot of countries are not amused at all about this concession. They will have to pay, because of your brexit.

The deal which would have been put before Parliament meant the UK would lose any negotiating and voting rights at the EU policy making entities, would have to abide by any decisions made by said countries and pay approx. £40 billion for the priviledge....REALLY!! So, nothing in effect would change and the cost was far too high anyway.

The UK leaves the EU and wants to keep voting rights. England has signed treaties for 7-year projects that will end in 2020, and this is what England has signed, officially, in those treaties. The European Union is based on the rule of law. England does not pay for a "priviledge", it pays 60 billions less than signed for, to finish projects it itself initiated, together with 27 other nations, and sure not for voting rights! That England keeps its voting rights until 2020 is ok in my book, but surely not further. And this possibility has nothing to do with paying, though the EU would be entitled to cancel the vote due to the break imho.

As i see it the english brexiters give a rat's anus about treaties and what they call friends and allies. They want to get out and do not care for consequences. If England wants to impose tariffs the EU will act accordingly. But it is not about tariffs, it is about holding back goods for days and weeks due to customs, because quality and seal is not longer guaranteed. All will be harder, all will be more expensive, and i cannot imagine to see any people benefit from that.

I can't help but wonder what the smaller member EU states (of whom there is a majority) will make of this because it is the larger countries who this will impact on most (all the net contributors) funnily enough.

This will happen when there is no deal. I take it those smaller countries will be really happy [/sarcasm] when England pulls that stunt.

As for the backstop, the UK will not put any physical border in place, the Irish are equally as adamant so let the EU decide how far they want to interfere with British teritorial land.

Now it is suddenly British territorial land, and the EU decides? Nope. It is not the EU that may erect any hard border between the Irelands, but Ireland and England. Alone. I wonder how Ireland thinks about what England wants.

You say the threat to leave NATO should not be taken too seriously? As for threatening to leave, i saw that coming since brexit. I just wonder what took them so long for this glorious idea. Maybe it is high time the EU rethinks its own military, if nations can just drop their commitment. Maybe the US is next, no one knows what can be expected from someone like Trump. Trust is being built in decades, but it takes months to destroy.

Cordial relations are good and well, just what do you think the Europeans's reaction would be when England just breaks out of a union that had become self-evident for decades for young people, for science and trade? Sympathy? Cordial relations, well. Maybe in a few years when the next generation does not remember exactly what happened?

You are right with the backstop. The Irish border has been the problem from day one, and everyone knew and knows it. the EU has made it clear from day one: "The single market is our main economic public good. We will not damage it."
Just what is the UK's position, or better England's, on that matter? How do you intend to solve this problem? Yes, it is your problem. It is not the EU's task or even in its reach, capabilty or having a right to do that.

[...] I must say in particular that of the EU is not projecting a positive image of itself on the world stage.

Well "the EU" has mostly been portrayed in a bad light by some, and if you think about who is being served most by this portrayal you know by whom and why.
Regarding "bad light" it seems the world right now gets exactly that picture of England, or better its parliament. I still hope for "the best" (impossible after brexit), or at least for a reasonable outcome, but i have no idea how England wants to solve an impossible situation.

Good article, by the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...n-after-brexit

[STEED]

New EU referendum would break faith with Britons, May to warn MPs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46586673

I am fed up with this women farting around ducking and diving all mouth no action!

We leave on WTO rules or we stay in the EU no half way house its do or do not.