SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Current crop of subsims & naval games > COLD WATERS
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-01-17, 09:02 AM   #1
jmr
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 462
Downloads: 62
Uploads: 0
Default

I don't have a quote handy but I did catch a post stating that the game will still retain the option for players to manually drive their boats.
jmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-17, 01:16 PM   #2
Shadow
Torpedoman
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 112
Downloads: 10
Uploads: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr View Post
I don't have a quote handy but I did catch a post stating that the game will still retain the option for players to manually drive their boats.
Yeah. It's been said several times so far that the new navigation options will coexist with the manual ones. So it's a win-win.
Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-17, 01:26 PM   #3
609_Avatar
Watch Officer
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: 3rd Planet From The Sun
Posts: 345
Downloads: 35
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr View Post
I don't have a quote handy but I did catch a post stating that the game will still retain the option for players to manually drive their boats.
Well that was pretty smart of them! Good on ya KF.
__________________
Avatar
609_Avatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-17, 02:31 PM   #4
Shadriss
A-ganger
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hooper, UT
Posts: 80
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post
You need to retrieve it before any high speed run or you can tear it off. So you would usually retract it before you start an engagement in case you haveto evade counterfire.
This is incorrect. All TAs are capable of remaining deployed at all ship speeds... for exactly the reason you state concerning torpedo evasion. The process for retrieving takes about 10 to 15 minutes from fully deployed to fully stowed. Now, you will be functionally deaf at high speeds, and the newer thin-line systems don't like staying out at high speeds for extended periods of time, but they will NOT tear off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeopardDriver View Post
Or when you dive so deep that you almost touch the ground.
This, however, is a truism. TA on ground = BAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bandit View Post
I'm wondering if there will be any of the non-retractable "point arrays" simulated, as far as I know, everything that came before TB-16 (namely BQR-15 and 25) had to be clipped on by a tug or tender when heading out to sea and clipped off when entering port.
Incorrect. As an example, the SPALT-9080 (BQQ-9) TA system originally used on OHIOs were not clip-ons. Not in the way you suggest, anyhow. It did require that we surface, send a team topside to make the physical and electrical connection, then dive the ship again (STUPID DESIGN!), but it did not require a tug or tender... just time, guts, and hopefully smooth seas. The array was still stowed in the ship's superstructure, and once connected was deployed just like the TB-16 or -23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delgard View Post
Shallow water OPS? Seems I am always in shallow water. Letting the towed array drag seems not a good thing.
I'll one-up you there - it doesn't SEEM to not be a good thing... it IS not a good thing. Is very bad to drag ADM Uptisquats Towed Array.... is VERY bad.
__________________
STS1(SS) USN (Ret) : 1997 - 2017
USS MICHIGAN (SSBN-727 BLUE)
USS MONTPELIER (SSN-765)
IMF PACNORWEST
USS ALASKA (SSBN-732 GOLD)
USS ALABAMA (SSBN-731 GOLD)
NAVAL OCEAN PROCESSING FACILITY, WHIDBEY ISLAND
USS TENNESSEE (SSBN-734 GOLD)
Shadriss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-17, 03:50 PM   #5
The Bandit
Sonar Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 395
Downloads: 39
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadriss View Post
Incorrect. As an example, the SPALT-9080 (BQQ-9) TA system originally used on OHIOs were not clip-ons. Not in the way you suggest, anyhow. It did require that we surface, send a team topside to make the physical and electrical connection, then dive the ship again (STUPID DESIGN!), but it did not require a tug or tender... just time, guts, and hopefully smooth seas. The array was still stowed in the ship's superstructure, and once connected was deployed just like the TB-16 or -23.
Hm, trying to remember where I got that from. I remember reading that's how the older British 2046 TA worked, and that they got the design from the Americans but the method wasn't well liked because of the limits it introduced. I understand that shark-bites were also a problem.

Aside from possibly losing it on the bottom, I imagine it would probably be important WHERE it was lost, I can't imagine anybody being too thrilled with a gift like that being left off Murmansk ect. At the same time, I do recall HMS Conqueror being reportedly involved in a secret op to steal a Soviet TA with a "cow-catcher" type assembly added to the bow of the boat, I could easily see the Soviets trying to do the same thing (I think they did that to a frigate at some point if I'm not mistaken).

One thing I would propose though, because I think it would make for a great addition to the game, at the initial "contact encounter" screen before the battle starts (where you can choose to close range and what not) I think that it would be good if we could pick the state of the TA here (streamed or stowed) as well as being told about the depth under the keel to help you make your decision.
__________________
The Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-17, 03:59 PM   #6
Julhelm
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Icy North
Posts: 692
Downloads: 189
Uploads: 0
Default

US Submarines since 1945 states that the reason the USN went for the retractable design was experience with the clip-ons getting damaged by extended high-speed runs (such as transiting the Pacific) and particularily shark bites.
Julhelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-17, 09:12 PM   #7
Shadriss
A-ganger
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hooper, UT
Posts: 80
Downloads: 89
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bandit View Post
I understand that shark-bites were also a problem.
And still is. When I worked at IMF in Bangor, WA, I worked in the TA shop, and there is still (best of my knowledge) a collection of shark teeth that have been pulled from TB-16 arrays over the years. They sometimes still come home with arrays that have been torn to shreds.

Quote:
One thing I would propose though, because I think it would make for a great addition to the game, at the initial "contact encounter" screen before the battle starts (where you can choose to close range and what not) I think that it would be good if we could pick the state of the TA here (streamed or stowed) as well as being told about the depth under the keel to help you make your decision.
This makes sense to me... or barring that, set up the scenarios to ensure adequate depth for the TA droop (assuming that they are modeling that) to keep it off the bottom of any problem you may be in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julhelm View Post
US Submarines since 1945 states that the reason the USN went for the retractable design was experience with the clip-ons getting damaged by extended high-speed runs (such as transiting the Pacific) and particularily shark bites.
My experience with the 'clip-on' array was fairly limited... for obvious reasons, we didn't like to put that thing out. The risk in both deployment and retrieval was not insignificant. By the time I hit my second OHIO, they were all but already gone and replaced by inboard TB-23 deployment systems, so I can't really speak to how well those systems handled high speed ops, just the ones in use for the '16 and '23.

And yes. Shark bites are, were, and will likely always be a problem with Towed Arrays.
__________________
STS1(SS) USN (Ret) : 1997 - 2017
USS MICHIGAN (SSBN-727 BLUE)
USS MONTPELIER (SSN-765)
IMF PACNORWEST
USS ALASKA (SSBN-732 GOLD)
USS ALABAMA (SSBN-731 GOLD)
NAVAL OCEAN PROCESSING FACILITY, WHIDBEY ISLAND
USS TENNESSEE (SSBN-734 GOLD)
Shadriss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-17, 05:47 AM   #8
Julhelm
Seasoned Skipper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The Icy North
Posts: 692
Downloads: 189
Uploads: 0
Default

The towed array already stops working if you're less than 200ft off the bottom, the assumption being it is being dragged. Now you can abstract that as it being retrieved if you want to, since it does not actually render (still haven't figured out a way to do so that doesn't have huge issues). Disallowing the array because shallow waters, I don't particularily feel like penalizing the player just because combat takes place in the shallows.

People are already having trouble understanding why running into enemy groups at flank speed starts them off in a disadvantageous position in combat.
Julhelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-17, 01:57 PM   #9
Hawkbill Arriving
Bilge Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

On the boat that i was on we had the both the towed and the thinline arrays I dont recall any sharks trying to bite them what i do remember is that they had some boyency just to keep them from running afoul of the screw but even so you wouldnt want to do a hard right rudder with a down bubble. and chew on the array with the prop.
Hawkbill Arriving is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2024 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.