US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@AVGWarhawk @Bilge_Rat

Perhaps I should clarify my position on this voter fraud thing.

I am not against an investigation, quite the opposite. I am also quite sure that there has been fraud, considering the somewhat messy voting system you guys have. How big, that remains to be seen, and no doubt there will be fraudulent votes on both sides.

What I have been wondering about is Trump's own "3-5 million undocumented immigrants" (I think that's what he said?) voting and thus losing him the popular vote claim, and whether he is willing to give it a rest if the investigation result doesn't support his claim.

If his investigation finds 1 million votes that should not count, great, but that's still 2 million too few to support his repeated claim on why he lost the popular vote.

Messy system is right. There is no standard from state to state. Then the dems to say you do not need an ID to vote is certainly leaning things to their favor. Further, some people started to cry that it is very hard to get an ID. Well, if you have your birth cert and other ID(school/library card/tax returns) one can get an ID.

The voter fraud goes deeper that just illegals. There was ballot fixing found in PA. Double voting. Dead people voting.

You are correct, finding these millions of illegal votes is not going to happen. At the very least maybe a standardized system of voting will come of it.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I had so much fun playing that. So much fun. It was great.

I remember first playing that around a friends and within five minutes I was "I'm going to have to get this game." So fantastic, and the soundtrack. Beautiful.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I remember first playing that around a friends and within five minutes I was "I'm going to have to get this game." So fantastic, and the soundtrack. Beautiful.

Medal of Honor was great, but based on alternative facts, Call of Duty has always been better. So much better. It's so great.

[Mr Quatro]

This is one of the problems with voters registration, but not all states are the same, just about all of the states use voters registeration for jury selection too:http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...achel-landsman

In April 2015, Governor McAuliffe vetoed House Bill 1315, which would have required jury commissioners to retain information from individuals not qualified to serve as jurors for reasons that would also disqualify them from voting, such as:

not being a citizen of the United States
no longer being a resident of the Commonwealth
being a resident of another county or city in the Commonwealth
having been convicted of a felony and
having not provided evidence that their right to vote has been restored,
or having been adjudicated incapacitated.

The bill would have required the sheriff or clerk of court to “make such information available, upon request, to the general registrar for that locality,” so that the general registrar could cancel the registration of those individuals deemed ineligible to vote. The bill was clearly intended to prevent illegal registration and voting by non-citizens, felons, and others ineligible to vote in Virginia. Governor McAuliffe vetoed the bill, claiming in his veto explanation that he was “committed to protecting the voting and civil rights of Virginians” and that “additional study” was needed.

[Dowly]

@AVGWarhawk

Messy system is right. There is no standard from state to state.

I agree.

Then the dems to say you do not need an ID to vote is certainly leaning things to their favor.

Perhaps the investigation shows so too. We shall wait for the results.

Further, some people started to cry that it is very hard to get an ID. Well, if you have your birth cert and other ID(school/library card/tax returns) one can get an ID.

Yes, I have heard of this. You need to get your IDs in order.

The voter fraud goes deeper that just illegals. There was ballot fixing found in PA. Double voting. Dead people voting.

I only care about the 3 - 5 million illegals that made Trump lose the popular votem, as he says.

You are correct, finding these millions of illegal votes is not going to happen. At the very least maybe a standardized system of voting will come of it.

I do hope you get something out of this investigation. Standarized voting system would be the best outcome.

[ikalugin]

If the voting systems are separate for each state, what precludes you picking up voters from one state and them moving them to vote to another and as such make them vote twice?

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

If the voting systems are separate for each state, what precludes you picking up voters from one state and them moving them to vote to another and as such make them vote twice?

That does happen, especially between states like New York & Florida where people own a house in each state and split time between them. And most states only require you to show residency to register ie: utility bill with an address, along with an ID.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by MaDef

That does happen, especially between states like New York & Florida where people own a house in each state and split time between them. And most states only require you to show residency to register ie: utility bill with an address, along with an ID.

Is that viewed as an issue in the US?

Because if something like this does happen in Russia, in addition to the control by the state and the public (which may be imperfect in our society), we get all those US funded political activists who would flock to such election violation cases (including the ones they make up to justify their existance but that is another matter entirely).

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Medal of Honor was great, but based on alternative facts, Call of Duty has always been better. So much better. It's so great.

since I stalled on PS2,, when Castaway sent me IL-2 1946 years back I was quite fund of the Metal of Honor Series,, Call of Duty was pretty good ,, but I seemed to like Band of Brothers over all..By the way seen Castaway of late ???

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by yubba

since I stalled on PS2,, when Castaway sent me IL-2 1946 years back I was quite fund of the Metal of Honor Series,, Call of Duty was pretty good ,, but I seemed to like Band of Brothers over all..By the way seen Castaway of late ???

Castaway or Castout? The latter was part of our community, but he left.

[August]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

If the voting systems are separate for each state, what precludes you picking up voters from one state and them moving them to vote to another and as such make them vote twice?

Other than that being against the law?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

If the voting systems are separate for each state, what precludes you picking up voters from one state and them moving them to vote to another and as such make them vote twice?

We do need some sort of interstate database to keep track of people who have two or more legal residences and to ensure that for each election only one residence is used for voter registration.

We tend to resist any type of national ID database, but as more and more citizens are more and more mobile and the concept of one main residence may not apply, there needs to be some method of keeping track.

And as a precinct chief, I feel strongly about the need for photo ID in order to vote as along as the state makes it easy and affordable for all the citizens. Virginia, I feel, does it nicely.

Maybe we can adopt a system of inking voter's fingers when they vote. It could be a "badge of honor" signifying that the citizen voted.

A low tech solution to the problem. I would not mind going to work with an inked finger indicating that I voted.

[yubba]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Castaway or Castout? The latter was part of our community, but he left.

It's was Castout,, I'm sorry I have such an awful time with names,, along with spelling,..

[vienna]

Originally Posted by MaDef

Related but not the same, A national ID requirement is different than just a voter id requirement. As far as I'm aware there are no laws requiring a citizen to carry ID papers. The voter ID laws are more akin to a drivers license (you don't need one unless you are operating a motor vehicle). So you won't need to show ID except at the polls to show you are in fact eligible to vote.

The point I was trying to make was the opposition to voter IDs is not just only from one political viewpoint or another. When the issue was being thrashed out on those radio talk shows way back then, the voter ID was seen by some on the Far-Right as a sort of "gateway" to the establishment of a universal, national ID system and, to then, that was anathema. I, myself, have no problem with reasonably enacted voter ID laws...

This little gem popped up yesterday; it seems it isn't just those evil illegals who are filling out the ranks of dubious voters:

Tiffany Trump, Steve Bannon, Steven Mnuchin Registered to Vote in Multiple States

http://www.usnews.com/news/national-...ultiple-states

This story points out that it is not illegal to be registered in multiple states, but voting in more than one state in the same election is illegal. There are, in all the argumenst about possible extensive voter fraud in the last Presidential election, a few salient points:


- virtually all of the stats and cites on both sides of the argument deal with past elections and not the current one in question

- using past as present is akin to using the season before last season's stats to prove why your team should have won the championship; it's not what was done in the season before last season that is important, it is what was done in the most current season

- what is important is not the raw number of dead, or no longer residents, or any other aberrations found on the voting rolls, it is the actual number of those aberrations that resulted in the casting of an actual vote; you could have a million dead people on a state voter roll, but, unless an actual vote is cast in one of those names, there is no voter fraud

- voter fraud only exists if an actual illegal vote is cast and, as of now there is no way of knowing the actual extent of the problem without an actual, independent, investigation, so let's have one; I somehow think neither side is going to be fully pleased with the results

Is there voter fraud? Of course there is voter fraud, just like there is jaywalking or cheating on taxes! The real issue is not question of the existence of voter fraud, it is how much and how can it be mitigated, since I don't think it will ever be fully eradicated. If you really wanted to sway an election, the best, cheapest, and easiest way is tinkering with the votes after they are cast, not before. If you have control over the count, it really doesn't matter how many illegal votes are cast...



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[vienna]

Originally Posted by Platapus

We do need some sort of interstate database to keep track of people who have two or more legal residences and to ensure that for each election only one residence is used for voter registration.

We tend to resist any type of national ID database, but as more and more citizens are more and more mobile and the concept of one main residence may not apply, there needs to be some method of keeping track.

And as a precinct chief, I feel strongly about the need for photo ID in order to vote as along as the state makes it easy and affordable for all the citizens. Virginia, I feel, does it nicely.

Maybe we can adopt a system of inking voter's fingers when they vote. It could be a "badge of honor" signifying that the citizen voted.

A low tech solution to the problem. I would not mind going to work with an inked finger indicating that I voted.

Low tech is often the best tech, but what will we do about all those voter wannabees who would just ink their own fingers?...



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