This can't be the USA I learned to love.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Catfish

When England declared war, in 1914

I dunno, I'd say Vienna, for Austria-Hungary, they're the ones that really kicked it all off. Although deciding to steamroller through Belgium didn't help. Gave us a bit extra legitimacy to intervene, although we'd have found a way eventually.

I think Betonov probably got the better answer, it wasn't just one nation, although when the UK (not just England ) declared war, that's when it turned global.

Anyway, God help me I've decided to take this conservative clickbait apart piece by piece, it probably won't do jack but what the hell, I'm a glutton for punishment.

1) Jack and his Quail Hunting Gun
A) Well...durr, for every Jack that takes his gun in and doesn't shoot up a school, there's an Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold who take their guns in to kill as many people as possible. In light of this it should really be common sense to keep your guns as far away as possible from a school. In a way, 'Jack' was lucky not to be shot.

2) Johnny and Marks fist fight
Has this ever actually happened, to the point that SWAT gets called? The only results I get are copies of this facebook clickbait and one incident involving a teenager and two people in their twenties, that only involved SWAT because someone pulled a gun.

3) Jeffrey not sitting still
So, what's the moral of this story? That kids who might have ADD or ADHD should just suffer in silence, just because that's what their predecessors did? That they should be denied any possible treatment for their problems just because some people don't think that ADD or ADHD are real problems?

4) Billys Dad
Yeah, I can understand this one. But it's a Catch-22, because for every seemingly feeble excuse for Child Services to get involved, there are at least two or three instances where they were legitimately needed, and another three or more where they were needed but didn't get involved.
So, again, do Child Services not respond and run the risk that Billys Dad might actually be abusing Billy? You can bet that there will be a hell of a scandal if Billy was to die and it was found that Child Services could have prevented it but didn't. To be fair, this is not just an American problem, it's a global problem, but it is a sign of progression in America that they actually have organisations in place to try to prevent child abuse. Many countries don't, and this does not make them superior.

5) Mark and his aspirin
Mark may have had aspirin in his bottle of aspirin, but who is to say that Mike doesn't have ecstasy in his bottle? Again it's Catch-22. There is a problem with drugs at school, and it's one that you're never going to fully stamp out. But these zero tolerance policies are put in place to try to block various avenues in which drugs can be imported into a school. It's not perfect, but what is?

6) Pedro
Really? Pedro? Anyway, I'm going to hold off on this one. There are problems in the system, and there is perhaps some element of truth in this one. The white knights do tend to cause as much damage as the racist elements in situations like this, and in the end 'Pedro' just gets lead around the houses anyway.

7) Johnny and the Bomb (with sincere apologies to T.Pratchett)
School bombings aren't really in fashion anymore because it's easier to just use a gun instead, but for why things like this should be taken seriously it's best to look at the Unabomber, Poe Elementary School, and Sterling Hall.
Makes one wonder that if the FBI, ATF and Homeland Security had been called to the Tsarnev brothers home after a failed explosion whether three Boston marathon runners would still be alive.

8) Johnny (sure lives an active lifestyle) and Mary
Yeah, again, it's another Catch-22. Now, if you were to swap the names around, and have it as a young girl and a male teacher, would it still be as acceptable? Paedophilia does happen, it is a problem, but we are still rather clumsy about addressing it. However, does that mean that it shouldn't be addressed?



Well...that's half an hour of my life I'll never get back, and for what? Urinating into the wind I suppose, but what the hell, it's my urine and I'll spray it where I want to.

In short, most of these situations fall under the 'Catch-22' scenario. Drugs, school shootings, child abuse, terrorist bombings and paedophilia, they are all real world problems and they all need addressing. Just because we are occasionally clumsy in how we address them, does this mean that they shouldn't be addressed? Just because 'Jack' accidentally left his gun in his car, does that mean that we should not take efforts to prevent Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold and Seung-Hui Cho from massacring our children? Just because Billys Dad was legitimately punishing his son for misbehaviour does that mean we should not take efforts to prevent child abuse? The list goes on, but it boils down to the fact that you have to take every single threat seriously because if you don't then people will slip through the net, and people will die, people who shouldn't have died, be they adults or children. If Lanza had been stopped before he entered Sandy Hook, would 26 students and teachers still be alive? If the alarm had been raised earlier, would more people have managed to escape? Would Lanza have committed suicide earlier? Those are questions that, of course, cannot be answered, but surely if there is a chance, if there is a possibility that children can be saved from being exposed to drugs, shot or blown up by a psychopath or molested by a paedophile then it's worth the potential side-effects? Or should we just accept a portion of dead or psychologically damaged children as a fact of life? Is a childs life not worth the effort?

Something to think about.

[Tango589]

Originally Posted by donna52522

Do you know where World War 1 started?

Just after lunch time wasn't it?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Tango589

Just after lunch time wasn't it?

Baldrick: The thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? and, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? and there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?

Edmund: Do you mean "Why did the war start?"

Baldrick: Yeah.

George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.

Edmund: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

George: Oh, no, sir, absolutely not. [aside, to Baldick] Mad as a bicycle!

Baldrick: I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.

Edmund: I think you mean it started when the Archduke of Austro-Hungary got shot.

Baldrick: Nah, there was definitely an ostrich involved, sir.

Edmund: Well, possibly. But the real reason for the whole thing was that it was too much effort not to have a war.

George: By Golly, this is interesting; I always loved history...

Edmund: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?

Edmund: Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

George: What was that, sir?

Edmund: It was bollocks.

Baldrick: So the poor old ostrich died for nothing.

[Jimbuna]

Top marks for the responses

[Tango589]

 

Originally Posted by Oberon

Baldrick: The thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? and, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? and there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?

Edmund: Do you mean "Why did the war start?"

Baldrick: Yeah.

George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.

Edmund: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

George: Oh, no, sir, absolutely not. [aside, to Baldick] Mad as a bicycle!

Baldrick: I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.

Edmund: I think you mean it started when the Archduke of Austro-Hungary got shot.

Baldrick: Nah, there was definitely an ostrich involved, sir.

Edmund: Well, possibly. But the real reason for the whole thing was that it was too much effort not to have a war.

George: By Golly, this is interesting; I always loved history...

Edmund: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?

Edmund: Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

George: What was that, sir?

Edmund: It was bollocks.

Baldrick: So the poor old ostrich died for nothing.

You typed all that out specially for here?? First rate work Oberon!!

Anyway, back on topic. I read through the OP link and gained absolutely nothing of value from it, except a nagging feeling of discomfort that the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. So there.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Tango589

except a nagging feeling of discomfort that the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. So there.

Like I said to my friend when we discussed foreign policy, especially China and Russia: ''the world is never as bad as the media tells us, but never as nice not to learn a survival skill or two''

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Or should we just accept a portion of dead or psychologically damaged children as a fact of life? Is a childs life not worth the effort?

Something to think about.

Yes it is but we should also think what this tendency toward over-protectionism is doing to the nation and in particular the children that we're trying so hard to shield from all the bad aspects of life. Are we creating a generation that will be unable to stand the psychological damages of adulthood? Someday these people are going to have to stand on their own. Will they or will we have robbed them of their ability to do that?

The Great Depression hardened the generation that fought WW2. I often wonder if they had the upbringing that we're giving our kids today whether they would have had the toughness they needed to win. I have to say I have serious doubts that they could.

Before the vultures jump in I'm not advocating a return to the travails of the Depression, just thinking that we're going too far and making our kids unable to compete with a far less genteel world.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Tango589

the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket. So there.

As I've said many times in the past, that is a quote from pretty much everybody who has been on the losing side of every election, everywhere.

[Betonov]

@August
As I was reading your post I found this in my FB newsfeed: 5 dangerous things you should let your children do

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Yes it is but we should also think what this tendency toward over-protectionism is doing to the nation and in particular the children that we're trying so hard to shield from all the bad aspects of life. Are we creating a generation that will be unable to stand the psychological damages of adulthood? Someday these people are going to have to stand on their own. Will they or will we have robbed them of their ability to do that?

The Great Depression hardened the generation that fought WW2. I often wonder if they had the upbringing that we're giving our kids today whether they would have had the toughness they needed to win. I have to say I have serious doubts that they could.

Before the vultures jump in I'm not advocating a return to the travails of the Depression, just thinking that we're going too far and making our kids unable to compete with a far less genteel world.

This is spot on and a definite concern. However, I don't think that any of the problems addressed in the original link are things that would make anyone more or less tough, in fact, surviving an incident like Sandy Hook could well make you less prepared for life and give you mental conditions which will trouble you for the rest of your life. Or it could well do the opposite, but either way there are better ways to prepare a child for the rigours of the world than shootings, bombings, drugs or parental abuse.
Obviously things like suing people if your child gets a scraped knee is stupid, and the whole situation behind number 8 on the list is something else that has caused a lot of problems because it is very very hard to get the fine line right between showing affection towards a child and paedophilia, and it's a jumpy subject that's got a lot of parents concerned, and rightfully so. The media doesn't help much in this, and people tend to form mobs and go on witch-hunts as soon as there's the slightest suspicion that there's a paedophile in their midst. The quickest way to ruin someones career in this day and age is to make an allegation of paedophilia at them, whether it's accurate or not, their name is going to be dragged through the mud and that's something that a career never recovers from.

I think the biggest thing we should be worried about is how reliant we are on technology for our existence these days, if an EMP hit the continental US the death toll would be horrendous. But that's something for another topic.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Betonov

@August
As I was reading your post I found this in my FB newsfeed: 5 dangerous things you should let your children do

I love the knife idea.
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okay, maybe not.


Good find though, Betonov.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by donna52522

It's a load of bullsnot,

It's as easy to make anti-propaganda as it is to make propaganda.

If you want to know what the USA is about, come here and see. Those who have never been here only see it from TV.

By the way, is it true everyone in Denmark is gay and has the herpes?

That's what I have heard.

You're thinking of Portland. Oh wait that's everyone is a heroin or meth addict.

[mapuc]

Thank you for your reply. As some of you understood, this is no way a "ha-ha-look-how-bad-USA-is" thread.

Here are something from the country I live in.

Every male person who work with children i baby day care, kindergarten, schools are classified as potential pedophile.( the rules have done so)

No male are allowed to have a child sitting on their knees, not allowed to hug and comfort a child, who have been hurt, while playing outside. The door to the toilet has to be wide open, when a male person follow a little child to this room.

A also remember a issue on the national news program. It was about children who get drugs just because the have a lot of "go" in their leg. Oh man, If I had been a child today I would have been a zombie- I had a lot I mean a lot of "go" in my legs.

I have through, learning about the history of USA, through meeting people from USA, learned to love this fantastic country A country of the free and for the free.

I thought that all this "rules" we have here, was not the case in USA.

If Donna is correct, then I'm the one who is really happy.

If I should take every post some of my FB-friends from USA post on their walls for granted- I would wrote things like: Wow you are living in a NK-like country and you don't know it, you get shot as soon you step outside your door, if not by some gang, criminals then by the police.
I know that is so far from the truth.

Thanks

Markus

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I love the knife idea.

I got my first pocket knife when I was 8 from my grandfather.
It was a small Victorinox model with 2 blades and not more than 5 other utilities. Got cut a million times, once I had to have my finger sown. I'm still here, still alive, no police record. Able to cut onions like Gordon Ramsay

Still a fanboy of Victorinox when it comes to pocket knives.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Betonov

I got my first pocket knife when I was 8 from my grandfather.
It was a small Victorinox model with 2 blades and not more than 5 other utilities. Got cut a million times, once I had to have my finger sown. I'm still here, still alive, no police record. Able to cut onions like Gordon Ramsay

Still a fanboy of Victorinox when it comes to pocket knives.

Between Boy Scout camp and diabetic camp, I learned everything I ever wanted to know about fire. I only lit my bed on fire once.

My favorite campfire trick is melting aluminum soda pop cans.

You definitely learn to respect the power of fire.