rsrd convoys; where are they

[JoeCorrado]

As you likely know by now- I am no purist for realism, my realism level runs at bout 60% but I do try to stay within my patrol area following my mission parameters- and you can't sink what isn't there. I agree that IF you are in the right place at the right time, there is shipping. No doubt about it.

Problem is, even setting up outside a port that should be active will yield no targets most times in RSRD. That really is not realistic. A good sized port with zero traffic in or out, is counter intuitive unless your presence is already known. And even then, your targets would likely be ASW units.

Likewise, there is a lack of even local merchants- typical strategy if no larger targets were available, was often to move closer to shore and attack smaller merchants that would travel the coast for safety. Again- you can't sink what isn't there in RSRDC.

So, if you maintain integrity of assigned mission, that leaves port raiding. While it was sometimes done in order to force the issue, in SH4 it is about as gamey as it gets unless it matches your mission assignment.

I think that ultra messages could resolve (or at least mitigate) the empty seas issue in RSRDC that some of us suffer from- these messages were quite typical and were also very effective in placing our subs in the right place at the right time. If you received even two or three ultra's that fine tuned your search during a 30 day patrol in an otherwise barren sea- it would add to the enjoyment factor. Maybe an increase in shipping is not the only possible resolution?

Stock game shipping is way, way, way too abundant. And the ultra messages never end- Sometimes the over abundance of the stock campaign is worse that the shortage of RSRDC-

I don't dislike the idea of spending a 30 day patrol and getting just a few ships- even the opportunity of sighting ships even if they get away. No problem at all. That is pretty realistic since a skipper who could nab an average of three or four ships per patrol, was considered top shelf indeed.

Spending a thirty day patrol with zero contacts in your assigned area was frustrating as it could be in real life- and it did happen occasionally- but for a game, that is just not very fun.

I regret if it comes off as whiny or complainant. RSRDC is the culmination of a vast amount of work- but as even Duci used to say- the ability to have a favorite mod "flavored to taste" is the goal. If I had a more accommodating "real life" I would attempt to learn the methods of tweaking in order to provide an alternative which provides the "sweetened target availability" that some percentage here hope for while preserving the great aspects of RSRDC relative to the historic records that are so awesome is RSRDC.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Exactly.I was once, long ago, one of those who thought there were not enough convoys in RSRD.I added some that should be there in certain areas such as east china sea, east of hainan island via luzon straits to japan but even without those, there are plenty

I am reading a great novel "Submarine" which reminds me again of the tactics of a sub skipper, and I don't want my RSRDC experience to make me one of those skippers who could just never find the war. LOL

[c13Garrison]

I havn't been able to be much involved lately (rehearsal season has started) but I'll toss my 2 bits in on this.

I would very much like to know what a "historic" intercept chance for US subs on Ultra convoys was. By my experience it is about 1 in 12. You can travel to the area indicated and yet still miss the convoy entirely if it is beyond your detection range.

I know the many boxes and diamonds on the stock game are not realistic and gamey, but it would be nice to be able to at least draw a plot on that convoy from Rabaul to Pelieu. Even if its 800 miles and frought with margin of error, at least I would feel I was putting myself in the best chance to succeed.

Hope everyone is well!

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by c13Garrison

I havn't been able to be much involved lately (rehearsal season has started) but I'll toss my 2 bits in on this.

I would very much like to know what a "historic" intercept chance for US subs on Ultra convoys was. By my experience it is about 1 in 12. You can travel to the area indicated and yet still miss the convoy entirely if it is beyond your detection range.

I know the many boxes and diamonds on the stock game are not realistic and gamey, but it would be nice to be able to at least draw a plot on that convoy from Rabaul to Pelieu. Even if its 800 miles and frought with margin of error, at least I would feel I was putting myself in the best chance to succeed.

Hope everyone is well!

Regarding RSRD, you won't get a lot of ultra's until later war, about mid 43 onward. Also keep in mind groups make several course changes, so often you're left out in left field. Still, most follow historic shipping lanes.

As stated earlier, RSRD spawns groups and port and despawns at ports. Try to figure which port it is headed towards. If you can find a bottleneck or straight to ambush in, instead of trying to catch it in the open.

[TorpX]

From reading Blair, I've gotten the impression that the Ultra messages were not all that worthwhile (at least tactically). Even where the information was timely and accurate, it was easy to miss an intercept.

I think the information was more useful strategically; that is it provided an overall picture of IJ shipping, but didn't necessarily help that much in allowing individual subs to torpedo targets.

[Bubblehead1980]

I probably should not have used the word whining as it demonstrated the wrong tone.The whole point is dont give up on RSRD as there are plenty of convoys.Now, if you want to play in early war and have plenty of convoys, well may want to just run TMO alone then go back to RSRD when playing in 43 and 44.Still plenty of convoys in 45 if in right areas(Area 9 for example, North of quelpart island south of korea and the Tsushima Straits, plenty of convoys coming through heading to Sea of Japan)

I was once a doubter of RSRD, ready to give up but then I figured it out.There is plenty of playability in RSRD and the realism is there also.Yes, some convoys are missing, I added them and as soon as can I will release my add on so missing convoys in all years are plugged in(added two or three convoys in 1942 that were there)

One reason convoys dont spawn from likely locations if you are sitting outside is if you are 20 NM within its spawning point, it wont spawn, its some old bug.I do sit outside peleliu harbor when submerged in 1943 and 1944, both southern entrance and north entrance, and convoys do spawn since 20 nm away as they spawn well inside the harbor, they come out the entrance and right into my crosshairs.of course I added a PC that comes out each morning and sweeps the area and covers the area several times in the day, keeps things interesting.

I will say that if anyone is having trouble, just cant find traffic, PM me and I will try to walk you through it without giving too much away. Intel did give coordinates to shipping lanes so.

To the subject of Ultras, they were useful in real life, ready many books where they found convoys and TF due to Ultras, put them in the right position.Of course there were many variables affecting actually intercept but they worked. Glad they are in RSRD, really adds to things.

Something to point out with coordinate specific ultras, just because they say they will be at so and so, keep in mind its the open ocean, they are unlikely to be at that specific coordinate right on the dot but within a few miles etc, so have to search and keep a taut watch, I can usually find them based on ultras, pretty easy.Again, RSRD just takes patience and it has plenty of playability, more so than without it.Dont give up!

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I was once a doubter of RSRD, ready to give up but then I figured it out.There is plenty of playability in RSRD and the realism is there also.Yes, some convoys are missing, I added them and as soon as can I will release my add on so missing convoys in all years are plugged in(added two or three convoys in 1942 that were there)

I will give RSRDC a try again down the road, or for sure after your mod is released.

Once my current career ends, I will fire up TMO again and try it without RSRDC to see how that campaign runs, I have never run TMO without RSRDC so I need to try it out anyway. I have the 1.9 version that won't be tilted so much to the Japanese ASW as I understand the last version 2.5 ended up.

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

To the subject of Ultras, they were useful in real life, ready many books where they found convoys and TF due to Ultras, put them in the right position.Of course there were many variables affecting actually intercept but they worked. Glad they are in RSRD, really adds to things.

Something to point out with coordinate specific ultras, just because they say they will be at so and so, keep in mind its the open ocean, they are unlikely to be at that specific coordinate right on the dot but within a few miles etc, so have to search and keep a taut watch, I can usually find them based on ultras, pretty easy.Again, RSRD just takes patience and it has plenty of playability, more so than without it.Dont give up!

Agreed on the Ultra Messages, first hand accounts are plentiful describing how these reports, along with contact reports from other subs were quite handy in "hitting the jackpot" in terms of being put in position to have the opportunity for contact. Such reports ended in success many, many times and many of our greatest success stories were the result of this operational information being forwarded to boats in the area.

Such messages for example, resulted directly in the sinking of two Japanese aircraft carriers en route to the Mariana, Two Carriers, two subs that were placed in the right places, at the right times- and crews that made the most of the opportunities afforded them... because of being tipped off ahead of time, making it to the proper location, and making their torpedoes count.

Once radar was available- the likelihood of contact with these enemy units increased dramatically.

[ArditoCorsaro]

Instead ib tmo plus rsrdc i wad bored for too traffic: i. South west asia areas, makassar, celeves, you met a single merchant every 2 min i did sunk 60.000-70.000tons too sometime in 42-early 43

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

As you likely know by now- I am no purist for realism, my realism level runs at bout 60% but I do try to stay within my patrol area following my mission parameters- and you can't sink what isn't there. I agree that IF you are in the right place at the right time, there is shipping. No doubt about it.

Problem is, even setting up outside a port that should be active will yield no targets most times in RSRD. That really is not realistic. A good sized port with zero traffic in or out, is counter intuitive unless your presence is already known. And even then, your targets would likely be ASW units.

Not really. With RSRD almost every group spawns at port and despawns at port. I think what's confusing many is that certain historic ports saw bulk of traffic at different times. Another issue, RSRD spawns at many ports that aren't on the map. Again, with RSRD the convoy system containing larger convoys didn't start until later war.