Speaking Of Language...

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

Frau K likes scoundrels and good kisses.

Yes she does and that combination has caused her nothing but trouble.

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Yes she does and that combination has caused her nothing but trouble.

Hmmm Must have been the wrong scoundrels.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

A Koala walks into a bar ..

Since Spiced Rum already posted a link to the book itself, I'd say you're a day late and a dollar short.

Also "Eats roots, shoots and leaves" is good grammar, whereas the original "Eats, shoots and leaves" is not, hence the point of the joke.

Adding "roots" to the punch line only works if you add an extra comma: "Eats, roots, shoots and leaves".

So, your version fails on all points.

[Dan D]

I do remember that I have heard that koala joke before, but what is with the second comma in the second amendment?

Second amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State "," the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Some say: "The provision’s second comma divides the Amendment into two clauses; the first is prefatory, and the second operative."

"The decision invalidating the district’s gun ban, written by Judge Laurence H. Silberman of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, cites the second comma (the one after “state”) as proof that the Second Amendment does not merely protect the “collective” right of states to maintain their militias, but endows each citizen with an “individual” right to carry a gun, regardless of membership in the local militia."

Or no individual right to carry guns or what?

Others think that you should read it as “a well-regulated militia ... shall not be infringed.”

"Now that the issue is heading to the Supreme Court, the pro-gun American Civil Rights Union is firing back with its own punctuation-packing brief. Nelson Lund, a professor of law at George Mason University, argues that everything before the second comma is an “absolute phrase” and, therefore, does not modify anything in the main clause. Professor Lund states that the Second Amendment “has exactly the same meaning that it would have if the preamble had been omitted.”

"Refreshing though it is to see punctuation at the center of a national debate".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/op...dman.html?_r=0

The Supreme Court then ruled that the second amendment offers an individual right to carry guns,right?
But what if the court changes its mind about the meaning of the comma one day?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Dan D

I do remember that I have heard that koala joke before, but what is with the second comma in the second amendment?

You're opening up a whole new can of worms and inviting a major derailment. I'll just say that if you like modern grammar try to avoid reading anything from the Founders. Their punctuation comes from a whole different world.

Here is an article that argues that the construction of the 5th Amendment does indeed allow interrogators to compel a prisoner to give evidence against himself as long as certain procedures are followed.
http://www.floridalawreview.com/wp-c...e-BOOKEIC2.pdf

Read any of the Founders' writings. They really loved their commas.

[Dan D]

True, we, at least the two of us, certainly we won't start another debate on the gun issue here in this thread. I think, the best way to learn about your own language is to learn a second language. The best German teacher I have ever had was from England with a degree in German language who taught me English, e.g.: the English future Simple is equivalent to the German future II: "I will have being been".

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Since Spiced Rum already posted a link to the book itself, I'd say you're a day late and a dollar short.

Also "Eats roots, shoots and leaves" is good grammar, whereas the original "Eats, shoots and leaves" is not, hence the point of the joke.

Adding "roots" to the punch line only works if you add an extra comma: "Eats, roots, shoots and leaves".

So, your version fails on all points.

It's actually a wombat and it eats, roots and leaves.

[troopie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So, your version fails on all points.

Aye, koalas don't eat roots!

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by TarJak

It's actually a wombat and it eats, roots and leaves.

No, i first heard it from an Aussie some 30 years ago, and it was a Koala

[Sailor Steve]

A recent exchange in the 'Ask The Next Person A Question" thread has raised another peeve of mine - The mangling of Middle English. The simple rule of pretending to use the old phrasing is this: The 'th' ending replaces the modern 's' ending. Period. So when people think they're being cute by using old phrasing they often look silly and lame instead. Some examples (I'll leave names out of it):

Dost thou liketh Shakespeare-eth?

Translates to "Do you likes Shakespeare-s?

The correct phrase would be "Dost though like Shakespeare?"

Dost thou liketh Shakespeare's style of writing?

Same thing. It's the same as asking "Do you likes Shakespeare's style of writing?" Shakespeare would never make that mistake.

My baseball doth breaketh Frau Kaleun's window on the summer's eve.

Equals "My baseball does breaks Frau Kaleun's window..."

Should be "My baseball breaketh..." Or "My baseball doth break..." The second is workable but the first is best.

Another favorite is the use of "Ye olde book shoppe". The spelling is fine but if you pronounce it "Ye", thou art in error. "Ye" does not start with "Y", but with an old English character called a "thorn". It looks like a modern "Y" but is pronounced "th", thus the word is still pronounce "the". This does not hold true in old books such as The Bible. In that case the speaker is addressing a person or group of people and "Ye" is the same as "You".

[Spiced_Rum]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve
Another favorite is the use of "Ye olde book shoppe". The spelling is fine but if you pronounce it "Ye", thou art in error. "Ye" does not start with "Y", but with an old English character called a "thorn". It looks like a modern "Y" but is pronounced "th", thus the word is still pronounce "the". This does not hold true in old books such as The Bible. In that case the speaker is addressing a person or group of people and "Ye" is the same as "You".

This also annoys me. "Ye" equals "The". I was taught that when printing began, the English printers needed a letter for the 'th' (ye) sound, and so used the Y symbol for 'th' because it saved space and was a letter in the English alphabet.

I had thought that the King James Bible uses "Ye" instead of Thee. Old English 'thee & thou' being the familiar & polite forms of you. (possibly like the French 'tu et vous', and German 'du und sie / dir und ihr'?)

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The correct phrase would be "Dost though like Shakespeare?"
[...]
Shakespeare would never make that mistake.

Thou rascal beadle, hold thy bloody hand!

A great explaination of the old forms can be found here.

I used to think "thou" would be the formal address and "you" is the informal one. So I find it interesting that linguisticly English speakers adress their friends and family formal - similar to the Spanish "usted" or the German "Sie". In Germany it was common to address your parents with "Sie" untill the early 20th century - at least in the upper-class

I am glad that even popular movies have it wrong, e.g. In Return of the Jedi Darth Vader asks the Emperor: "What is thy bidding, my master?" which sounds formal to modern ears, though in Medieval days he would have said "your bidding" - don't know if the y in "you" would be capitalized in written language back then.

edit: damn, Spiced Rum beat me by 2 minutes!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Thou rascal beadle, hold thy bloody hand!

Good catch!

On reflection an even better form would have been "Likest thou Shakespeare?"

Oh, and nice article.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

[...]
Also "Eats roots, shoots and leaves" is good grammar, whereas the original "Eats, shoots and leaves" is not, hence the point of the joke.

True i was late, but you misread my post.
I wrote the man read "Eats roots, shoots and leaves" in the EB which was correct, which is why i wrote "So the Koala imagined a comma after 'eats', with a tragic outcome .. .".
It is already hard enough for a non-british writer, without you misreading my posts
.
.
.


And now for something (not so) completely different:
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rgumant+clinic

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Catfish

No, i first heard it from an Aussie some 30 years ago, and it was a Koala

Can't have been a real Aussie then.