[REL] Depth charge water disturbances

Gargamel · 03-20-11, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SquareSteelBar

Maybe that could be fixable...?

While I have no experience in this, my guess would be that the devs just treated them as smaller, forward flung DC's, as they exhibit a lot of the same properties as DC's. Not sure how SH3 is coded, but it might entail introducing a whole new type of object in the game.

Although, if you could mix the object properties of a torpedo and a DC, you might have a HH, and then you could add the disturbance, as I'm sure it would cause that.

Just throwing that out there, as sometimes it take's an outsiders idea to spur a new approach to something.

TheDarkWraith · 03-20-11, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargamel

While I have no experience in this, my guess would be that the devs just treated them as smaller, forward flung DC's, as they exhibit a lot of the same properties as DC's. Not sure how SH3 is coded, but it might entail introducing a whole new type of object in the game.

Although, if you could mix the object properties of a torpedo and a DC, you might have a HH, and then you could add the disturbance, as I'm sure it would cause that.

Just throwing that out there, as sometimes it take's an outsiders idea to spur a new approach to something.

I have an idea as to how this can work. Will try it and see. Hedge hogs are the same way in SH5 so they need to be corrected to work like they are supposed to

TheDarkWraith · 03-20-11, 10:30 AM

v4.0 released. See post #1 for details.

I left hedge hogs in until they can be make to function like they do/did in real life. Still working on it.

irish1958 · 03-20-11, 11:00 AM

After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists. What I did learn is that the destroyer always looses contact after an attack and it takes a while to reestablish, if it can be. As Stiebler pointed out, an hour or more was not uncommon. Another source stated that there is a one in fifteen chance of establishing contact if the correct procedures were followed but that they rarely were.
Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating.
So apparently a single destroyer was not very effective against the WWII subs. If a single destroyer was attacking a sub, the tactic was to keep the sub submerged under periscope depth while allowing the convoy to escape. The depth charges were dropped set for shallow explosions to keep the sub down and unable to attack while the convoy moved on. The destroyer would then trail the convoy and to prevent the sub from surfacing and attacking.
Up until late 1942 or early 1943 (April) the US tactics were not to sink the subs but to prevent attacks on the convoy and success was determined not by how many subs were sunk, but how many ships reached port.
This changes in 1943 (for the US).
In the Pacific, the Japanese ran out of destroyers in 1944 so the US subs were unopposed in the last year of the war.
This mod is terrific and really adds to the game.

LGN1 · 03-20-11, 04:49 PM

Great work again, TDW

Thanks a lot for sharing! It's a mod for which I have been waiting a long time.

Just a small idea: it might be good to have two bolds per depth charge explosion: one with a short life time and much noise (to simulate the hydrophone's inability to track the target) and a second with longer life time, but no noise (to 'blind' the ASDIC).

Cheers, LGN1

Myxale · 03-21-11, 03:59 AM

Wow, great stuff!
Looking back, it has been a holy grail sort of mod, for a long time.
Never thought it'll make it. OR that someone would be able to pull off.

Does that mean that soon we from the outdated KMariene will have working decoys?

At any rate, I can only agree with the earlier posters, that this is some great mod. Kudos to all involved.

And the stuff that's been released lately is amazing.
CheerS

difool2 · 03-20-11, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating.

I have gone flank with an XXI near Flower Corvettes, only to see them doggedly tracking me no matter how I manuever.

irish1958 · 03-20-11, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by difool2

I have gone flank with an XXI near Flower Corvettes, only to see them doggedly tracking me no matter how I manuever.

Limit of the game. Couldn't happen in real life until the late '50s.

Fish In The Water · 03-20-11, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists.

I'm afraid I'll have to concur. Online sources appear to be few and far between. What I have come up with are a number of scientific studies that exam the dispersal rate of underwater turbulence, but few of these are directly applicable to the case in hand.

I see you're now recommending individual preference in the first post, and given current conditions, I agree this would seem to be the best course.

Thanks once again for a long sought (and essential) dose of realism. Your efforts remain very much appreciated!

King_Zog · 03-25-11, 11:59 PM

Damn, so without this mod everytime I've waited for the depth charges to explode before going to flank speed and hard rudder it has been completely pointless!? Oh well, downloading now, thanks for making this DarkWraith!

ryanwigginton · 03-26-11, 01:19 AM

Me also. I read about this tactic here on the forum, maybe two years ago and did it ever since, never realising it weren't actually modelled.

Have also been doing it in SH4. Stupid! Great mod, now there's actually a reason to do it.

Fish In The Water · 03-26-11, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Damn, so without this mod everytime I've waited for the depth charges to explode before going to flank speed and hard rudder it has been completely pointless!?

I remember thinking how [un]-funny it was that it used to work all the time in AOTD, but not in SH3...

Oh well, no point crying over spilt milk. It's here now and that's what matters. Cheers once again for a great mod!

03-20-11, 11:00 AM	#4
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	After spending several hours investigating this topic, I can't determine how long the disturbance from a DC persists. What I did learn is that the destroyer always looses contact after an attack and it takes a while to reestablish, if it can be. As Stiebler pointed out, an hour or more was not uncommon. Another source stated that there is a one in fifteen chance of establishing contact if the correct procedures were followed but that they rarely were. Another source stated that it is impossible for a WWII destroyer to re-establish contact with any sub traveling faster than 15 knots as it's sonar was not effective above 15 knots due to water noise from the sonar array of the destroyer. The type XXI, had it been developed, would have be devastating. So apparently a single destroyer was not very effective against the WWII subs. If a single destroyer was attacking a sub, the tactic was to keep the sub submerged under periscope depth while allowing the convoy to escape. The depth charges were dropped set for shallow explosions to keep the sub down and unable to attack while the convoy moved on. The destroyer would then trail the convoy and to prevent the sub from surfacing and attacking. Up until late 1942 or early 1943 (April) the US tactics were not to sink the subs but to prevent attacks on the convoy and success was determined not by how many subs were sunk, but how many ships reached port. This changes in 1943 (for the US). In the Pacific, the Japanese ran out of destroyers in 1944 so the US subs were unopposed in the last year of the war. This mod is terrific and really adds to the game. __________________ Irish1958 Last edited by irish1958; 03-20-11 at 07:43 PM.

03-21-11, 03:59 AM	#6
Myxale Admiral Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: PQ AN 25 Posts: 2,178 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 0	Wow, great stuff! Looking back, it has been a holy grail sort of mod, for a long time. Never thought it'll make it. OR that someone would be able to pull off. Does that mean that soon we from the outdated KMariene will have working decoys? At any rate, I can only agree with the earlier posters, that this is some great mod. Kudos to all involved. And the stuff that's been released lately is amazing. CheerS __________________ SH3+GWX SH5+WoS Still Sailing....still Deep

03-26-11, 01:19 AM	#11
ryanwigginton Weps Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 368 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	Me also. I read about this tactic here on the forum, maybe two years ago and did it ever since, never realising it weren't actually modelled. Have also been doing it in SH4. Stupid! Great mod, now there's actually a reason to do it. __________________ Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, Intel Core i7-2760QM @ 2.40GHz, 8GB RAM, AMD Radeon HD 6990M

03-20-11, 10:30 AM	#3
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	v4.0 released. See post #1 for details. I left hedge hogs in until they can be make to function like they do/did in real life. Still working on it.

03-20-11, 04:49 PM	#5
LGN1 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,138 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 12	Great work again, TDW Thanks a lot for sharing! It's a mod for which I have been waiting a long time. Just a small idea: it might be good to have two bolds per depth charge explosion: one with a short life time and much noise (to simulate the hydrophone's inability to track the target) and a second with longer life time, but no noise (to 'blind' the ASDIC). Cheers, LGN1

03-25-11, 11:59 PM	#10
King_Zog Soundman Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London Posts: 143 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Damn, so without this mod everytime I've waited for the depth charges to explode before going to flank speed and hard rudder it has been completely pointless!? Oh well, downloading now, thanks for making this DarkWraith!