Will the DRM affect your Purchase?

[Cavell]

Originally Posted by quietguy52

I wonder if UBI is perusing this thread? If so, hope they're making note of all the complaints!

I doubt it. They're probably having a giggle over the "hold-out" thread, with a bunch of guys going, "Yeah, man, DRM sucks! Stay strong!" and then two hours later posting, "Well, I caved in and bought it."

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by quietguy52

I wonder if UBI is perusing this thread? If so, hope they're making note of all the complaints!

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by Cavell

I doubt it. They're probably having a giggle over the "hold-out" thread, with a bunch of guys going, "Yeah, man, DRM sucks! Stay strong!" and then two hours later posting, "Well, I caved in and bought it."

Some, but not all.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

No, if it was on the UBI forum it would more likely be deleted. And please explain exactly how logic is not my strong suit, since I'm one of the ones who is refusing to buy it.

[Cavell]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

You've got a point. Man, if only there weren't this vorpal barrier preventing people from posting to two sites at once.

Oh wait.

[Fincuan]

Still holding off, and all the post-release news have only made the decision easier. When the price of the game drops below 10€ I might consider getting it even if DRM is still in, but certainly not before that.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

No, if it was on the UBI forum it would more likely be deleted. And please explain exactly how logic is not my strong suit, since I'm one of the ones who is refusing to buy it.

I very much doubt Ubi is even aware of the existence of Subsim or would even care what is posted here. The only thing Ubi cares about are the sales of SH5 and AC2, what info is sent to them directly or perhaps what shows up on their forums.

This is the Subsim SH5 forum. Supposedly a forum for players of SH5 to discuss issues with SH5, tips on how to play SH5, to exchange info about SH5, etc., etc.,

Instead it has been taken over by posters who 1) do not own and have never played SH5, but will freely give out their opinion about how broken and unplayable it is, and/or 2) who want to protest against the DRM scheme.

How many times must we see the same posts over and over and over again. No one here is in favour of DRM. We all want DRM to be removed. We get it!!!

But if you want to send a message, this is not the place, UBI is not listening. All you are doing is pissing off the rest of the subsim "community".

Tell me where is the logic in that, because I can't see it.

[Fincuan]

Following that logic we could immediately drop all discussions on bugs and patches("list to fix"), Ubi doesn't see them here afterall. We could also immediately drop requests for better dev tools or fixes for the existing ones and the SH3 forum's "Petition for SDK", they won't get any attention here.

I guess we can also start convincing the devs who regularily read the forum that they're not actually here.

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Following that logic we could immediately drop all discussions on bugs and patches("list to fix"), Ubi doesn't see them here afterall. We could also immediately drop requests for better dev tools or fixes for the existing ones and the SH3 forum's "Petition for SDK", they won't get any attention here.

I guess we can also start convincing the devs who regularily read the forum that they're not actually here.

Don't forget, unless you have bought the game, and love it unquestioningly, then you have no opinion. By the logic displayed on here in any case.

[Bilge_Rat]

but why can't there be a balance?

why the "scorched earth" policy?

why does anyone who posts something positive about SH5 have to be immediately hit by a 2x4?

In six months, Ubi will have moved on to another project and will have completely forgotten about SH5, but we will still all be here.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

Funny that.

Logic is surely the weakest skill of the pro DRM crowd. After all you are buying - oops! renting a product - oops! a license for something defective by design for a premium and one that almost always does not perform as expected and nearly always cost more money for enhancements and functionality often a long time in waiting; seems to me to be a racket.

[Cavell]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

but why can't there be a balance?

why the "scorched earth" policy?

why does anyone who posts something positive about SH5 have to be immediately hit by a 2x4?

In six months, Ubi will have moved on to another project and will have completely forgotten about SH5, but we will still all be here.

This isn't the Jets and the Sharks. People who like the game aren't being run out of town by an angry mob. The issue isn't with folks like yourself who enjoy the game, and I honestly haven't seen anyone make the argument that it is.

Edit: I immediately have to take that back, of course, in light of the post that got in before mine, but still..."logic is not the strong suit of the anti DRM crowd" isn't exactly conciliatory, either. After all, it's far more logical to expect to get a result on the DRM issue by withholding cash from Ubisoft, rather than giving it to them and hoping they listen as they laugh their way to the bank in preparation for that new project in six months that will cause them to forget about SH5.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

why does anyone who posts something positive about SH5 have to be immediately hit by a 2x4?

You're joking, right?

If not, then I'll say the same thing I said to Trenken, and the same thing I said to MattDizzle.

It's perfectly okay to be for something, and it's perfectly okay to be against something. This thread was started well over a month before the game was released, with a simple question. Some opinions were stronger than others, but that's always to be expected. The only two(?) people to start pro-DRM threads immediately called any and all anti-DRM posters "whiners" and "crybabies". Then they both(?) retreated into the stance that they were being attacked for simply stating an opinion of the game.

I fully disagree with the the children who slam those who bought the game as "suckers" or "supporting the evil". Yes, I know I seem to have done just that a couple of posts up, but my quibble was with giving them the money and then claiming to refuse to support it after the fact by not playing it, not with the actual purchase itself. I'll joke with those who said they wouldn't but then did anyway, but I won't demean them. We are all free to choose for ourselves.

And it's the same here. Not very many are attacking those who "say something positive". In fact you won't find any of that in the threads about the actual gameplay. But when you come to the thread by and for people who are determined to oppose what we see as an oppressive measure by a corporation against its best customers and belittle us with "but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd", you can't turn around and complain that you've been hit with a 2x4 for "saying something positive about SH5".

[janh]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

...but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

Well, I'd call that an apparent fail of your logic -- by a circular argument.
Don't generalize, and be respectful, mature and polite -- that works pretty well. You really wouldn't want to question the logic capabilities of a person that is specialized on quantum theory and theoretical chemistry and is a faculty member of a very famous US institution in Cambridge, MA -- I hope that is convincing enough.

And I can tell you that I strongly oppose this DRM, but not only because it doesn't make logical sense to be permanently connected in single player mode. However, I am a person of strong integrity and little tolerance towards such measures.

Thus far subsim enabled us to discuss our worries in regard to DRM with other community members, and I think this discussion -- so heated at times, and very childish at others -- was quite constructive. Though I do not agree with some things said against this DRM, or SHV, nor with pirating activities, I generally value my customer rights as highly as the reasoning of Ubi to protect its creative property. But this time they simply did not reach a balance.

Whether our critique here will be heard is a different question, but it appears that subsim is read by other journalists that cite this discussion. And subsim is read by at least one of the Ubisoft Romania developers. So there clearly is a chance that the people here with a stronger understanding of their own rights as customers may be heard and may contribute to making a difference. That logic should be pretty clear.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by janh

. You really wouldn't want to question the logic capabilities of a person that is specialized on quantum theory and theoretical chemistry and is a faculty member of a very famous US institution in Cambridge, MA -- I hope that is convincing enough.

Oh please Janh, I am sure you mean well, but I have as many degrees as you and frankly, your qualifications do not impress me in this matter.

You do realize we are talking about a computer game here? a $50 piece of entertainment software? Probably less than you pay to fill up your car with gas every week?

Perhaps if the anti-DRM lobby would keep that in perspective, there would be less tension and heated words being hurled back and forth.

However, if we could agree on some house rules, say keep the DRM threads and the gameplay discussion threads separate, I am sure we would all get along just fine.