The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[Webster]

i dont know if anyone has noticed but this thread has now gone over 750 posts and has had over 18,000 views and i wish to thank all those who have participated in it and will continue to participate in it for acting mature and respectfull of all opinions.

at times we have had a few dissagreements over this very serious subject of DRM, but overall this has been a statement of the maturity of our members

[onelifecrisis]

Just adding/pointing out the issue I have the most dfficulty with. ;)

I'm not arguing against the other points, I agree wholeheartedly. The issue has been beaten to death though; I'd rather see people taking this up with Ubi directly, instead of complaining on a public board.

That said, I'm sure their inbox is already flooded with these complaints. :lol:

I doubt it's as flooded as this forum. :nope:

[Brag]

People are flocking to this forum like never before and it is not to get info to buy SH5 but to find out what is the problem with DRM. If Ubi does not remove this DTM/OSP infection, it will slam into a wall. It will only hear, snap, snap snap, the sound of closing wallets.

[Arclight]

I guess too, let's hope they do care about our worries.
Indeed, I'm still hopefull the constraints are relaxed as time goes on. Surely, when sales of new copies decline, the requirement will be patched out (maybe sooner, given the responses). No point in paying for those authentification servers if there is no more money coming in, right? (Right?! UBI?!)
Meanwhile, I play SHIII:DL
Sink 'em all. :salute:

[The Enigma]

No, SH4 is better.

Would be great if we could mod both games into one
and let SH4 fight against SH3. :hmmm:

[Arclight]

No, SH4 is better.

No, SH5 is better. :O:
I doubt it's as flooded as this forum. :nope:
Well.. not everyone knows where to find SUBSIM. But everyone knows where to find UBI. :lol:

[arkham1010]

I loved SH3, and have played it a lot, still fire it up every few months or so for a few patrols.

SH4 was fun too (Tho not as much as SH3).

Sadly, I won't be able to judge how SH5 is, since I am voting with my wallet and refusing to purchase this game. I am drawing the DRM line in the sand here.

[Webster]

Well.. not everyone knows where to find SUBSIM. But everyone knows where to find UBI. :lol:

the bargin bin? :O:

[Sailor Steve]

No, SH5 is better. :O:
I may never know...

[d@rk51d3]

You're a modder, maybe you can mod the game so everytime you sink something, a popup appears with ebay sale items for your wife to choose from? :DL


Great idea. This could replace the renown system.

Sink a ship, and win a prize.:DL

[obxtony]

Is this now another company that has decided to capture their PAYING customers (dupes?) into buying a game that can only be played online??
Another net cast to trawl in those poor reliant fish. Once the catch is inboard then wjat?? 2 months down the line..oh sorry people but because of such small usage the server will be re-assigned to another game??:hmmm: Unless of course you wish to subscribe to its costs!!:down:
:arrgh!: What a scam ...buy it but dont dare try and play it offline!
Anyway, if SH5 is at all like SH4 then they can shove it in the number 1 tube and fire it at their CEO allong with my fart cannisters with my compliments:salute:
Oh and btw ...nice to see u all here again !
obxtony

[Arclight]

the bargin bin? :O:
That's the spirit! :roll: :lol:
I may never know...
Maybe not from personal experience, but we'll tell you all about it and rub it in if it's any good. :D

Seriously though, that's exactly why I don't like this concept. If costs need to be cut, internet would be 1 of the first to go... and a good part of my game collection along with it, because of decisions like these. :nope:

Financial trouble (or any kind of trouble) is always just 1 screw up away. And it doesn't have to be yours. :-?

[Sailor Steve]

Maybe not from personal experience, but we'll tell you all about it and rub it in if it's any good. :D
:rotfl2::rock:

Nothing like a little "look what you're missing!" to brighten up the day.:sunny:

[Dellwig]

This is my first comment about the DRM issue and there will be probably no "new" thoughts in it.

I was excited about SH V untill the DRM was announced.
Although I have a (relative) stable broadband connection and my girlfriend lives in another town so I could use this "cloud save files" very often.

But I don't get the idea of being online the whole time for a singleplayer game.
At this point I will not buy it. The same with Rise of flight. I will immediately buy it, when one of the next patches will remove this similar DRM.

Anyway I'm very interested in any other news about this game and waiting for the release to read about it (Sim or Shooter).

Best wishes,
Dellwig

[Rip]

Don't Feed the Troll :nope:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1886349

[KING111]

One more thing what if you ever want to sell your copy
of the game you can't its regitserd to you and your
computer you can't sell it or even give it away to a friend
lots of gamers buy games play with them for a few months
or even years then sell them to get the money
to buying another game with these one you will be stuck
with it for life even if you don't like it :damn::damn::damn::damn:

[IanC]

One more thing what if you ever want to sell your copy
of the game you can't its regitserd to you and your
computer you can't sell it or even give it away to a friend
lots of gamers buy games play with them for a few months
or even years then sell them to get the money
to buying another game with these one you will be stuck
with it for life even if you don't like it :damn::damn::damn::damn:

Some say that is actually the main reason for DRM/OSP, to stop re-sales, not piracy.

[Méo]

One more thing what if you ever want to sell your copy
of the game you can't its registered to you and your
computer

its registered to you and YOUR COMPUTER???

Are you sure of that?

What happens if I try it on my current rig, then 6 months later, I buy a new rig and/or change to windows 7 and/or change my current connection to Broadband ???

:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

I can hardly imagine they (Ubisoft) didn't think about it?

[theluckyone17]

I have a Netflix membership. I rent a lot of movies using it... watch them once, then send them back. I have no interest in watching most of them again.

On the other hand, I watched a "communal" copy of Firefly, being passed around by my friends. By the second DVD, I was hooked. I handed the set back, then bought my own.

When Serenity came out, I watched it in the theaters. Twice. Bought the soundtrack after the second viewing. Once the movie came out on DVD, I bought it. When the collector's edition came out, I bought it.

Obviously, I loved Firefly & Serenity.

If gaming companies put out games that I'd want to play often, rather than simply play once and resell... I wouldn't resell them. Go figure :-?. If a game's produced that has a limited storyline, no modding, and a few days worth of game play... it's gonna get resold.

If the producer is going to actively prevent my ability to resell it, odds are I'm not going to purchase the game in the first place. It's just not worth it.

As a side note, I rarely purchase games to be resold... by the time I want to risk my money on a game that's shaky, the price of the game has dropped. The demand for it has dropped to, along with the price I'm gonna get for it. So it sits on my shelf most of the time... and I end up using it for a coaster.

[KING111]

i have got call of duty modern warfare 2 it uses DRM
i have 2 steam accounts because of a virus i
had to format my computer
so i had to reinstall call of duty modern warfare 2
when i reinstalled modern warfare 2 steam asked
me for my name and password
by mistake i used the wrong account
it told me the serial number of the game was
was being used by another account and it would
not let me install the game on my own computer
when i used the account the game was setup on
it installed ok so if i try and sell it and i still have my
steam account running who ever i sell it to will not
be able to install it steam will tell them the number is
setup on another account so it looks like i am stuck
with it for life unless maybe if i close down my steam
account and SH5 is using the same system :damn::damn::damn:

[Méo]

OK, but if you have only 1 username, 1 password and 1 serial number with SH5.

Seems to me like you could sell the game to someone by giving him those ^.

Or maybe I can learn something? (this is not an insult! maybe I can learn something!)

[Steeltrap]

OK, but if you have only 1 username, 1 password and 1 serial number with SH5.

Seems to me like you could sell the game to someone by giving him those ^.

Or maybe I can learn something? (this is not an insult! maybe I can learn something!)

With some existing games you can do that, but it's a hassle. It's linked to an e-mail address, typically, so they'll probably want access to that (although the Ubi system should allow you to redirect to a new e-mail). You'll need to give them your Ubi user account details. For Steam, for example, the registration of that copy of the game is linked to your Steam account. It's not transferrable, so you'd need to give the buyer the details of the Steam account to which it is linked. Not good if you inadvertently linked it to your Steam account with 5 other games on it.

What you can't do is use a 3rd party, like a game store, to re-sell it as they won't take such details. You're likely only to be able to sell it to someone you know, which cuts it from 99.99% of the 2nd hand games market.

That's my understanding of it, for what that's worth.

Cheers

[Reece]

OK, but if you have only 1 username, 1 password and 1 serial number with SH5.

Seems to me like you could sell the game to someone by giving him those ^.

Or maybe I can learn something? (this is not an insult! maybe I can learn something!)Not if he has other games with UBI, the same account would be used, the username and password would also include your profile, containing email address etc.:hmmm:

[Méo]

Not if he has other games with UBI, the same account would be used, the username and password would also include your profile, containing email address etc.:hmmm:

With some existing games you can do that, but it's a hassle.

crap! I didn't think about email address, good point.

Now we should stop this discussion right now and delete it, if they see it, next time they will ask us our social insurance number...:-?;)

[Overboard]

I have SH1-SH4 but i will not bye this one Sorry, Its time to move on :salute:

[Archive1]

Up to now I've been supportive of UBI and was not comfortable with much of the unsupported criticism of SH5, but whoa, I just picked up on this DRM 'feature' of SH5!

I'm now off the buy list. Will stay with my GW modded SH3. Let's hope the GW group gets together again if this seemingly authenticated 'rumor' is true.

Ridiculous. I'm not about to buy a program that tells me which computer I can use it on and when (only when connected).

If this is the path they actually take, I'd say the UBI projections for profit on SH5 just tanked. And that means we all can kiss any SH6 goodby.

[BarjackU977]

No buy for me either. I refuse to follow the path DRM are taking here.

Pirates are bad guys, and companies need funds to work, no question. But I'm not ready to accept everything for the sake of fighting piracy.

Neal said that all games may be so in the future. Future will tell. If enough customers complain and don't buy, companies will miss revenue as well. I know this argument often comes as well.
But for me, it's important to tell them there is a limit, that things need to be balanced.

[JScones]

I said Securom for it being one of the most well-known systems. Truth is, that ever since Starforce, I've lost track of what anty-copy systems are currently being used, but surely I could have used any other name, and it'd still sound right. My point was that, almost anything is preferred instead of OSP. :)
I agree. I was actually reminiscing about the good old days of SecuRom!:rotfl2:

Don't forget that Ubi made a patch to remove the need for Starforce. So, there's still hope yet.
Technically they didn't - they merely adopted/endorsed the pirate crack that already existed.

crap! I didn't think about email address, good point.

Now we should stop this discussion right now and delete it, if they see it, next time they will ask us our social insurance number...:-?;)
Create a "throwaway" gmail account - SH5@gmail.com (or similar unique name). One that you won't need after getting rid of SH5. ;)

[Ragtag]

No buy for me either. I refuse to follow the path DRM are taking here.

Pirates are bad guys, and companies need funds to work, no question. But I'm not ready to accept everything for the sake of fighting piracy.

Neal said that all games may be so in the future. Future will tell. If enough customers complain and don't buy, companies will miss revenue as well. I know this argument often comes as well.
But for me, it's important to tell them there is a limit, that things need to be balanced.

Totally agree and it is important to stick to it.

[Stiebler]

(My original post, for those confused by what follows:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1256841&postcount=742
)

Arclight said:
Stiebler, I think playing SH5 while your wife empties your wall.. *cough* I mean, does some shopping online, is not going to be an issue. There should be very little traffic between the game and the server, same is true for the shopping.
But how will Madam get onto the Internet while I am using the keyboard/screen for hours at a time?

Neal Stevens said:
You're a modder, maybe you can mod the game so everytime you sink something, a popup appears with ebay sale items for your wife to choose from? :DLI doubt very much whether Ubisoft will allow their nice shiny new game to be reverse-engineered. Even if I had the talent.

Seriously, though, I was making the important point that Ubisoft's new requirement to be on-line all the time while playing their games debars other users from using the same computer/internet line. No one else seems to have mentioned that.

Stiebler.

[Arclight]

Ah, sorry. Figured you had 2 PCs. :doh:

[Robsoie]

crap! I didn't think about email address, good point.

Now we should stop this discussion right now and delete it, if they see it, next time they will ask us our social insurance number...:-?;)

Ah, makes me remember the bright DRM future, but don't worry they are programmed not to enjoy it (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/05/09/) :D

[Brag]

Add one hundred internet lines to your one hundred PCs, problem solved :smug:

[Méo]

Create a "throwaway" gmail account - SH5@gmail.com (or similar unique name). One that you won't need after getting rid of SH5. ;)

Shhhhhht! quiet... they are listening ...:DL

[Uber Gruber]

You just can't make this stuff up! Thats the fourth owner this season and we're still only just over half way through!

We've had to sell all our best players. We have hardly anyone on the bench. Her Majesty's Money Collectors are howling to eat us, the staff aren't getting paid and the players have to bring their own pack lunches.

Oh, sorry...wrong topic :oops:

[czarnaszabla]

its registered to you and YOUR COMPUTER???

Are you sure of that?

What happens if I try it on my current rig, then 6 months later, I buy a new rig and/or change to windows 7 and/or change my current connection to Broadband ???

:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

I can hardly imagine they (Ubisoft) didn't think about it?

i think they did. Why else would they register it with a specific computer ;D

but seriously, with the crap that their new DRM is, let's just be glad Ubisoft doesn't sell condoms - imagine using THAT with drm (0_o')

[Brag]

Originally, this was a thread starter, but got merged and moved.



Who was it who said, A sucker is born every day?
Let’s look at Ubi’s OSP way of doing business transactions.
1.) You give them money
2.) They take it and they send you a DVD
3.) You are now a little bit poorer, Ubi made a bit of money
4.) You install game, register, connect to server and play
5.) Ubi spends money every time you log in to OSP
6.) The more you play, the more money UBI has to spend on you
7.) Ubi does not like spending money after they made a sale.
8.) Now they know your playing habits. Since you save your game on their server, this storage space not only costs Ubi more and more, but they also learn about your personality.
9.) Eventually comes the day when the say, we will no longer spend money to keep this sucker online.
10.) Good morning, sucker! Now you pay us if you want to keep playing.

That’s the 10 Step Program.
Not many suckers are falling for this scheme, but a few are.
Those complaining about the negativity in this forum, watch your wallets!

[U796]

It is impossible to play with a protection system like DRM.
A micro break of the Internet and the game is lost.
It will be necessary to save the game every five minutes ....?

I will not buy SH5 until that stupid DRM is removed.
I went back to SH3 and I won't buy SH5.


:down::down::down::down:

[Captain Wreckless]

The german forum reply by the official Ubisoft representative makes it very clear that mandatory connection to Internet is required for the whole duration of Silent Hunter V play (and that games "can" be saved online so perhaps they can be saved online or offline).

But the official answer on the german forum of Ubisoft from the Ubisoft representative is connection is required not only to play the game (launch it) but is also required for the "whole duration" of play.


Will be an interesting situation while playing when Windows, your anti-virus, firewall and any other software decides to do an update right in the middle of tracking a large convoy, and then reboots the computer. :damn:

No thanks.

CW :arrgh!:

[trenken]

If I can be attacked every time I say something positive, then ill just do what I want as well, make fun of all these crying babies.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/2659178484_7e692b5994.jpg

[karamazovnew]

If I can be attacked every time I say something positive, then ill just do what I want as well, make fun of all these crying babies.



http://elegantchic.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/angry_baby.jpg

Say what?

[trenken]

Say what?

Hehe, that's pretty scary.

[Onkel Neal]

Wow, yeah, stopped me in my tracks :haha:

[Brag]

In the murky waters of the North Sea, U-134 Struggled in murky weather, training for a murky future in the DRM of Doom war.
“I love being in SH 5,” Lt Krank said.
“Really, Herr Kaleun?” the second WO asked.
“Yes, we all know that success in life is having the right connections. And we are connected.” Krank said, “Keep a sharp eye for Ubi mines. I’m going below to check on our connections.”
In the Zentralle, Krank wiped spray off his face and glared at the LI. “Are we connected to the servers?”
“Nein, Herr Kaleun, the servers are waiting for the cook to get dinner ready.”
Krank hit the chart table with his fist. “What’s delaying the cook?”
“He cannot get a stable gourmet connection.”
“Use your magic powers, Mensch!”
The LI shrugged. “Ubi took them away quickly after the Subsimmers bitched and laughed, Herr Kaleun.”
Krank turned to the first watch officer. “Where in the hell is your eye patch?”
The FWO pulled the eye patch from his pocket.
“How come you are not wearing it?”
“So that I can see better, Herr Kaleun.”
A shout came from the hydrophone room. “Sound contact!”
Krank asked the operator, “What is it?”
“It’s gloo, gloo, Herr Kaleun.”
“What does that mean?”
“We are connected to the sewers,” Herr Kaleun.”



:salute:

[Reece]

I like humorous bitching!!:yep: .... Carry on!:yeah:

[Armistead]

Well, look at it this way, think of all the marriages they will save. No more wives complaining about playing.

You'll fire up the game on Friday night...server will be down and you'll have time to take your wife out to dinner....

Damn them.....

[Webster]

i would like to take this opportunity to ask the members to finish saying their peace here in this thread and get it out of their system so we can change the subject and stop taking about the DRM/OSP.

yes its a topic we feel strong emotions about but its now going to be what it is and more talk about it will change nothing.

the game IS going to be released on march 4th, 2010 with the new DRM/OSP and those who buy it will post here in the sh5 forums about the game the bought.

the rest of us will move on in other directions but will likely keep a close eye on these forums so we would like to ask people limit the number of thread discussions of DRM/OSP to no more than one or two threads and the rest of the forum can be about the actual sh5 game as it was intended.

the days of 8 or more anti DRM/OSP threads filling the forum has past and its time to move on

[Ragtag]

Mr Neal Stevens, it doesn't matter if the pc is or isn't connected to the internet 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Its a matter of principle. The moment a third party dicates what you can and cannot do to the game you have PURCHASED well you haven't purchased anything but a promise that they will let you use it. God know for how much time, and if they decide to cut you off you're f **** d.
Let me ask you, would you find acceptable to ask a third party for authorization everytime you would like to read a book in your personal library ?
I bet you wouldn't. See its the same issue. Giving up what you legally PURCHASED.

Totally agree. And what if movie companys suddenly decides to go with something like this on Blu-Ray?...that'll be fun wouldn't it? :)

They could add an offline option with a weekly or monthly authentication of the gamedisc. Similar authentication is used on the later Company of heroes expansions.

[snapli]

Hi all!

I had to join this forum to comment on this DRM-issue, too. And there is one thing, that didn't get enough attention after all:

Crappy DRM would be the only reason for me not buying SH5. I don't care what the rationale behind this or that DRM is, it's crap. Eventually ALL games get cracked, no matter how "strong" their protection is, so a good old serial number is as good as any fancy protection, and it doesn't bother legit users.

You won't buy a complete game; all you'll get for your $$$ is just a fragment of a game, with the missing parts being downloaded at runtime. That's the reason for the permanent connection requirement and that's the reason why the whole crack-idea will fail, in the end.

I agree that almost every other game was cracked in the past, but these guys had the whole package in their hands to do their dirty work ...

I bought SH3, won't buy SH5 as I can not support buying something that I don't own completely and, furthermore, being dependend on external infrastructure.

Cheers,

Snapli

[JU_88]

The biggest question I would have is, what will Ubisoft do if (or should I say 'when') the pirates produce an offline crack for their OSP?
If this happens, wouldn't it be most wise for them to patch out the system on all effected games immediately?
If they dont, surely they could end up with a piracy epidemic similar to that of EA's Spore - or worse? :nope:

[Ragtag]

Well, even if they stream in runtime it won't matter. The files has to be local for the period one plays. Anything on a computer can be cracked,hacked and ripped wide open. It's just a matter of skill and time. And there's no doubt in my mind that the crackers out there will take on the challenge.

[partyboy]

Hi all!
You won't buy a complete game; all you'll get for your $$$ is just a fragment of a game, with the missing parts being downloaded at runtime. That's the reason for the permanent connection requirement and that's the reason why the whole crack-idea will fail, in the end.

I agree that almost every other game was cracked in the past, but these guys had the whole package in their hands to do their dirty work ...

There have been plenty of games released already where not all of the files necessary to play are on the game disc and you have to connect to a server to download the rest. Half-life 2, for example. And guess what? They were cracked.

The crackers simply go through the legitimate process at least once, gain access to the downloaded files, package them with their release and crack the executable so it doesn't try and connect to any servers. They either include the downloaded files as part of the normal installation process or in a separate directory which you copy over after the regular install.

There is nothing really new here. It will be cracked like just about everything else. The only benefit is in delaying the inevitable. That's what protection schemes are really about - not stopping a crack, just delaying it for as long as possible to increase sales.

[snapli]

Well, even if they stream in runtime it won't matter. The files has to be local for the period one plays. Anything on a computer can be cracked,hacked and ripped wide open. It's just a matter of skill and time. And there's no doubt in my mind that the crackers out there will take on the challenge.

Uhm, there was a minor but decisive glitch in my argumentation: I said downloaded, but why does this have to happen? Some small files just stay at their servers and being read at runtime. How do you guess their content? :hmmm:

Cheers,

Snake

@partyboy: Yeah, I know that - therefore this post ;)

[partyboy]

Uhm, there was a minor but decisive glitch in my argumentation: I said downloaded, but why does this have to happen? Some small files just stay at their servers and being read at runtime. How do you guess their content? :hmmm:

Cheers,

Snake

@partyboy: Yeah, I know that - therefore this post ;)
In that case they use programs to "sniff" the interactions between client/server; watch what is being sent and requested, and either capture it outright or emulate it. Of course, this is a great simplification but that is essentially what happens. Stored remotely or not, necessary files, or functions, will at some point end up in the client computer's memory - and the crackers have direct access to that.

It could turn out to be very easy to crack after all. Or, it might go uncracked for months. Have to wait and see. But sooner or later the processes will be fully understood and broken. Pretty much a fact of life. ;)

[Brag]

Ubi is doing two things wrong. One, is to alienate it's customer base, and, two, is challenging pirates.

The pirates will be further incentivated as large numbers of former Ubi customers will be eager to jump at a "patched" version while Ubi mucks about trying to sell DRM.

Ubi will not gain anything by delaying cracking by a few months because they will have lost it's client base who will be happily playing off line. without Ubi's permission.

[snapli]

In that case they use programs to "sniff" the interactions between client/server; watch what is being sent and requested, and either capture it outright or emulate it. Of course, this is a great simplification but that is essentially what happens. Stored remotely or not, necessary files, or functions, will at some point end up in the client computer's memory - and the crackers have direct access to that.

It could turn out to be very easy to crack after all. Or, it might go uncracked for months. Have to wait and see. But sooner or later the processes will be fully understood and broken. Pretty much a fact of life. ;)

If people who won't pay for software wouldn't profit from this, I, too, would wait for a crack: to buy the game and to get rid of the connection requirement!

But again: I don't think you can cover all possible server-requests with packet-sniffing. You won't get them all and then your game will stop to work. Apart from that, I totally agree with you, partyboy :)

[Ragtag]

In that case they use programs to "sniff" the interactions between client/server; watch what is being sent and requested, and either capture it outright or emulate it. Of course, this is a great simplification but that is essentially what happens. Stored remotely or not, necessary files, or functions, will at some point end up in the client computer's memory - and the crackers have direct access to that.

It could turn out to be very easy to crack after all. Or, it might go uncracked for months. Have to wait and see. But sooner or later the processes will be fully understood and broken. Pretty much a fact of life. ;)

That's exactly my point :)

[dcb]

Just when Ubi discovered their ultimate protection tool, others who pioneered it are dropping it. Rise of Flight will get its OSP removed this February:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED!!!.aspx (http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED%21%21%21.aspx)

[CaptJodan]

Little late in seeing this topic...I'm not usually here every day. But I wanted to simply add my voice to those who won't buy the game as long as Ubi continues this practice.

It's sad too, because I've bought all the SH titles so far and have enjoyed them all. I agree with Neal that if we ever want to keep seeing sub sims, we need to support them. SHV has some issues (VIIC only, only till 1943) but I was willing to overlook those issues to support the genre. But I'm not willing to support this.

If Ubi decides to remove this insanity, I'll again likely support them and probably buy SHV. Otherwise, even though it pains me, I won't buy this sim.

[Rosencrantz]

If there is still someone left ready to "buy" DRM, I recommend him to check my thread "Star Force sucks!" I really can't imagine, how crazy things would probably go with DRM.

Edit:

You can find the thread from SHIII forum now. And thanks to Neal it has now title "Star Forve hindering me!"


-RC-

[Onkel Neal]

Just when Ubi discovered their ultimate protection tool, others who pioneered it are dropping it. Rise of Flight will get its OSP removed this February:

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED!!!.aspx (http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED%21%21%21.aspx)


How long has that game been out? Maybe that's the plan, drop some of the DRM after the game has been out and achieved a certain sales goal? :hmmm: Then the moochers can play for free.

[Letum]

How long has that game been out?


11 months and 8 days.

[Hanomag]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'. :nope:

[Platapus]

8.) Now they know your playing habits. Since you save your game on their server, this storage space not only costs Ubi more and more, but they also learn about your personality.



They learn about your personality from your save games?????

Is sortta like primitive natives believing that if you take their photograph that you own their souls?

How exactly is Ubi gonna learn about my personality from my save games? This is, of course contingent on Ubi caring about my personality in the first place.

[Kapitanleutnant]

This is, of course contingent on Ubi caring about my personality in the first place.
Yo what's up my man dig this: sometimes companies like to sell private information about you to advertisers so that they in turn can advertise specific products to you based on this information.
Crazy I know.

note for idiots: I'm not saying that this is what Ubi does, or what they're planning to do. But going "hurr durr why would this giant, profit-driven corporation want to know anything aboot me????" is pretty naive.

[Brag]

Johan Sebastian Balz, greatest hero of the Kriegsmarine has this to say about SHV/DRm/OSP.

First of all, one must think in Japanese to say DRM in Spanish. Why Spanish? This is an international forum, so we must be able to say les DRM in French while schprehen OSP in German while thinking in Greek

The word for NO in Greek is Oxi, the Greeks even have a holiday called Oxi Day. To Ubi this means NO, Oxi, Nyet, Hapana, No in French, No in English, No in Spanish and Portuguese. If you speak Japanse you say Oxi in Greek while thinking in French.

Nous, les Subsimmers, wir machen la rechaza, of le DRM govno (Le scheisse in Russe) et reject le crappula you stinking fools pousse dans notre troats, We no swallow nuttin avec le shiet of le DRM. Pousse la viande, cochons and take your DRM/OSP up your Mutti’s (sensored).

When I speak Japanese to my Dutch friends who have never spoken Dario, I tell them in Arabic that Sayonara in Japanese means the same as sayonara in German.

Ubi, if you don’t get rid of DRM/OSP by release day, In Japanse the French will tell you in German while speaking English. Metez your DVDs up El gran culo of your mother. You will have lots of them available in Japanese.

Johan Sebastian Balz
Feel free to admire me anythime.

[Elder-Pirate]

Where they can't find you from your mail ( snail mail ) that you trashed ( many people don't shred their mail before trashing ) they can and they will sell your name to many agencies that pay a good sum so they can mail you all sorts of junk mail both snail mail and email.

Prove to me UBI will not do that. I'll bet they will. Greed is greed.

[Brag]

They learn about your personality from your save games?????

Is sortta like primitive natives believing that if you take their photograph that you own their souls?

How exactly is Ubi gonna learn about my personality from my save games? This is, of course contingent on Ubi caring about my personality in the first place.

I can learn a l;ot about you by just studying your posts. Never mind what I could learn about you from watching you play an intense game. They (Ubi) would be looking for other stuff in your computer. If not them, other hackers who would take advantage of you being logged in into the OSP servers.

[Letum]

Lets not forget the "boontybox" incident.

Ubi made IL2 players to download a program that searched for all
games installed on your PC and sent Ubi data about how often you
played them. I see no reason they wouldn't do something like this again
if they thaught they could get away with it.

[Webster]

Lets not forget the "boontybox" incident.

Ubi made IL2 players to download a program that searched for all
games installed on your PC and sent Ubi data about how often you
played them. I see no reason they wouldn't do something like this again
if they thaught they could get away with it.


why wouldnt they?

after all look how many are convinced this DRM/OSP stuff is something so wonderfull that they are smearing on the KY and dropping trow begging for it

a company would be silly not to take advantage of such an invitation to spy on their sustomers computers and gaming habbits

[Méo]

after all look how many are convinced this DRM/OSP stuff is something so wonderfull

how many are convinced?

a company would be silly not to take advantage of such an invitation to spy on their sustomers computers and gaming habbits

Now if we have some serious evidence that Ubisoft already did something similar before with DRM, there would be something more concrete to base our opinion on, at least mine.

[ryanglavin]

I miss the good old days when all you had to do was plug in a key-code.
I might just be dreaming though.

[Nisgeis]

I miss the good old days when all you had to do was plug in a key-code.
I might just be dreaming though.

Ah, if you want real nostalgia, you want to be putting in the code, after you have viewed it through the rather difficult to use Lens-Lok device, which was a plastic device you held up to your TV, which through the magic of refraction, would decypher the code displayed on your tele and once you entered it, you could play the game (Elite). Although... even if you did have a lens lok device, you always thought 'what the hell letter is that' and you entered your best guess. It never really worked properly, because I don't think that there's anyway it could have worked properly with different sized TVs out there. You know, just applying the laws of physics and all.

Still, at least you didn't have to be online for it to work. Also, your saved games were local (to your tape :-) and you could use them on other machines too... (cue futuristic music).

[dannygjk]

Hi,

Saving games online would be an immersion spoiler for me. This means to be on the safe side, to avoid losing say 30 minutes on an approach, you better save every 20 minutes. Immersion spoiler. Maybe I'm obsessive, but when I play a sim, I'm there, sweating out approaches, depth charge attacks for hours, etc.

Danny

[Brag]

LATEST SURVEY RESULTS!

Eat Dung, it's good for you.

12,005,538 flies can't be all wrong. :haha::haha::haha:

[tomfon]

the Greeks even have a holiday called Oxi Day.


Actually, they don't call it this way. They celebrate the fact that the dictator Ioannis Metaxas, under public pressure, rejected Mussolini's request (made on October the 28th, 1940) to let the Italian forces to enter the country's territory without posing resistance. Thus, every year they celebrate this fact plus their victory over the Italian Army.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Metez your DVDs up El gran culo of your mother. You will have lots of them available in Japanese



OMG OMG OMG!!!
:D
:haha::har::har::timeout:

:timeout::timeout:

:har::har:

[Brag]

Over 125,000 unique visitors came into Susim during January, this being a 35% increase.

This is a substantial number of potencial SH-5 buyers.

4,489 Visited the Ubi TV thread
12,430 went into the Devs interview
12,681 visited the Will DRN affect . . .
21,499 came into this combined thread


Though the actual numbers are much higher, in the last two threads 33,000+ Subsimmers expressed their anger At Ubi's DRM/OSP

This is an impressive number as usually only 10% of visitors express their opinions. In the polls only 15% voted will buy anyway.

Ubi should ignore these figures at its own peril

[AkbarGulag]

Online authentication, okay.

And they day they stop the servers ? What will you do ?
Stare at the DVD cover ? Play with memories of the game ?

You're no longer buying a game you can play as much as you want.
You're renting a game. And when they pull the plug, it ends for you.


Ain't that the truth.

[ERPP8]

Why would Ubisoft even want to put everything online?

[Brag]

Simply, a stupid decision assuming its customers are idiots. They have a long range plan, which none of us likes. Read the thousands of posts made on other threads.

[IanC]

Because the Ubisoft decision makers played with lead paint toys when they were kids.

edit: touchdown Colts! :woot:

[Sailor Steve]

Why yet another thread on this? There are plenty enough to post in.:dead:

[Brag]

"6 days into his patrol, the first enemy ship was spotted... a trawler...
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3111/omgonozmc6.gif (http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3111/omgonozmc6.gif)
...It was at this point, Captain AkbarGulag realised how green his crew

w..."
:DL
Good opening lines, Akbar

[Rip]

Why would Ubisoft even want to put everything online?


Control

[Reece]

I miss the good old days when all you had to do was plug in a key-code.
I might just be dreaming though.It's a shame that pirates can almost always crack these codes. Really all they have to do is have online activation, your key is then registered, as long as when this service is pulled for a product a patch is released so that those using this product can continue to do so when reinstalling on a new computer for example!:hmmm:

[IanC]

Really all they have to do is have online activation, your key is then registered, as long as when this service is pulled for a product a patch is released so that those using this product can continue to do so when reinstalling on a new computer for example!:hmmm:

I think the problem is that online activation is also easily cracked. I'm thinking of the Windows XP online activation for example.
Nope, they're simply going for the constant connection thing because that has so far been uncrackable... for now...

[TarJak]

I think the problem is that online activation is also easily cracked. I'm thinking of the Windows XP online activation for example.
Nope, they're simply going for the constant connection thing because that has so far been uncrackable... for now...
But of course it is going to be a matter of time before some clever clogs comes up with a way to run a bit of code on your box which spoofs the Ubisoftware into thinking it is online when it is not and talking to an ubi server with an ubi account. All that would be required is a complete transcript of the comms between the game and the servers and a good knowlege of authentication protocols.:hmmm:

Any security creatable by a human is crackable by a human. Enigma anyone?

[Steeltrap]

Any security creatable by a human is crackable by a human. Enigma anyone?

That's slightly misleading in one respect. Enigma was not craked by humans directly; it was cracked by humans using non-human means (elementary 'computers').

It was impossible for humans to crack enigma due to the impossibly huge number of potential code combinations. They needed a means of running millions of them in a sensible time. Hence the development of artificial computation means.

Yes, it took human intelligence to crack enigma, but it was achieved through 'outsourcing' direct human intelligence and means through a mechanical application.

Having said all that, which I did largely because I find it a point of interest, your siggestion that humans can devise a means to circumvent any code is correct. What is not a given is that the means devised will in fact be available (for example, how many of us could have built a 'bombe' to crack enigma, even if we had worked out the theoretical possibility?).

Cheers

[Reece]

I think the problem is that online activation is also easily cracked. I'm thinking of the Windows XP online activation for example.
Nope, they're simply going for the constant connection thing because that has so far been uncrackable... for now...A shame, I will never buy a product that required a permanent online connection, matter of principal, and there are many times I don't have internet connection, I'll buy Xbox before this DRM control crap!!:damn:

[tomoose]

....if UBI continues their track record of horrendous user-unfriendly, non-intuitive (and usually poorly thought out) methods of 'connecting' to "their" servers/games THAT will be the downfall of SH5 (bad gameplay notwithstanding).:hmmm:

Watch and shoot.:salute:

[onelifecrisis]

A little something for the anti-OSP crowd.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb

[IanC]

A little something for the anti-OSP crowd.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb

I don't know if I should laugh or cry. :nope:

[Elder-Pirate]

^^
One more reason why I will not purchase SHV. :nope::down::stare:

[Rip]

That's slightly misleading in one respect. Enigma was not craked by humans directly; it was cracked by humans using non-human means (elementary 'computers').

It was impossible for humans to crack enigma due to the impossibly huge number of potential code combinations. They needed a means of running millions of them in a sensible time. Hence the development of artificial computation means.

Yes, it took human intelligence to crack enigma, but it was achieved through 'outsourcing' direct human intelligence and means through a mechanical application.

Having said all that, which I did largely because I find it a point of interest, your siggestion that humans can devise a means to circumvent any code is correct. What is not a given is that the means devised will in fact be available (for example, how many of us could have built a 'bombe' to crack enigma, even if we had worked out the theoretical possibility?).

Cheers

Actually many of the methods were anything but computers and required a great deal of human labor and calculation etc. But of course why not use computing resources if they are available and they. It IS crackable. As stated anything CAN be cracked. It is a simple matter of resources. Does anyone with the resources want to use them on this? Who knows, in the end I don't think it will factor but a tiny amount into sales.

There is a confusion among the publishers that these people getting pirated copies of stuff would/will buy it. They won't. The only thing these always online DRM methods are accomplishing is to diminish legal sales. In my opinion they have grossly underestimated the outrage this will cause and what the financial impact will be. I for one will buy SHV but I won't be buying any other Ubi titles (and I own many) that include this OSP crapola.

[Reaves]

It IS crackable. As stated anything CAN be cracked.


For the first time I don't want to purchase an SH title.


But I will be playing it.... :down:

[TarJak]

That's slightly misleading in one respect. Enigma was not craked by humans directly; it was cracked by humans using non-human means (elementary 'computers').

It was impossible for humans to crack enigma due to the impossibly huge number of potential code combinations. They needed a means of running millions of them in a sensible time. Hence the development of artificial computation means.

Yes, it took human intelligence to crack enigma, but it was achieved through 'outsourcing' direct human intelligence and means through a mechanical application.

Having said all that, which I did largely because I find it a point of interest, your siggestion that humans can devise a means to circumvent any code is correct. What is not a given is that the means devised will in fact be available (for example, how many of us could have built a 'bombe' to crack enigma, even if we had worked out the theoretical possibility?).

CheersMy point is that Enigma, regardless of the technical difficulty of cracking it, it was done. If someone has a "need" or strong enough "desire" to do it then given the time and resources it will be done.

On your point about the lack of the means, in this day and age I'd suggest that is largely irrelevant. Once the crack becomes freely available in a form that is easily used, then like all the game cracks that have gone before they will be used by many more people that have no clue of even the concepts behind how they were made.

The main point is that with todays technology it will only take one person with the means to permit many to gain the benefits of those means. I think the Enigma analogy stands.:know:

[SubSim Skipper]

Wow this it is ..this is the argument ...and there is NO WAY AROUND THERE POINTS! If it was never solidified before, (and it already was) it certainly would be now as to why I will not buy this game!

[IanC]

A shame, I will never buy a product that required a permanent online connection, matter of principal, and there are many times I don't have internet connection, I'll buy Xbox before this DRM control crap!!:damn:

That pretty much sums it up for me too.

[VonGlaus]

A little something for the anti-OSP crowd.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7134-Experienced-Points-Activation-Bomb

Pretty well stated.

[Steeltrap]

My point is that Enigma, regardless of the technical difficulty of cracking it, it was done. If someone has a "need" or strong enough "desire" to do it then given the time and resources it will be done.

I did say in my post that I agreed with you. I was being pedantic to some degree. There's a remote possibility that the means required to circumvent OSP/DRM might be as bad as the problem.

[TarJak]

I did say in my post that I agreed with you. I was being pedantic to some degree. There's a remote possibility that the means required to circumvent OSP/DRM might be as bad as the problem.
I agree that you agreed.:DL

I also think that the means to circumvent OSP may be even worse given the sorts of people involved in cracking game DRM schemes.

I can imagine all sorts of shenanigans going on when you have to communicate with an "external" server. Securom will have nothing on this.:nope:

[Brag]

For the first time I don't want to purchase an SH title.


But I will be playing it.... :down:

Your attitude mirrors that of many Ubi clients. Infecting SH5 with DRM/OSP, Ubi has antagonized over 100,000 just on this forum alone. A large percentage will play their own way, just to hurt this stupid compsany who has no respect for the intelligence of its clients.

Moo

[Sailor Steve]

Ubi has antagonized over 100,000 just on this forum alone.
Where do you get that number?

[tater]

Where do you get that number?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1261265&postcount=842

apparently subsim had over 100k unique visitors in January alone.

[Jimbuna]

I agree that you agreed.:DL

I also think that the means to circumvent OSP may be even worse given the sorts of people involved in cracking game DRM schemes.

I can imagine all sorts of shenanigans going on when you have to communicate with an "external" server. Securom will have nothing on this.:nope:

Rgr that http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Brag]

Here it is! The real Mackoy!!



Whenever I start up my game it does a ubisoft autopatch. When its finally done after a few minutes it says this:

Trying to get update information to C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiF309.tmp.
Found update (Patch, all, all).
Found existing file for target, attempting resume(C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiEAA 1.tmp.exe, (Patch, all, all))
Trying to download update file from http://patches.ubi.com/settlers_6/settlers_6_v1.6.exe (http://patches.ubi.com/settlers_6/settlers_6_v1.6.exe). Destination: C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiEAA1.tmp.e xe.
Successfully downloaded update file.
Verifying downloaded file's CRC: dd252898. Expected: dd252898.
Starting update file (C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiEAA1.tmp. exe)
Failed to start downloaded update file. File corrupted? (C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiEAA1.tmp. exe)
Unable to delete file: C:\Users\KRYSTA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\ubiEAA1.tmp.e xe.

[SubSim Skipper]

Hmm doesn't look promising

[Arclight]

Might be a permissions issue PC side, UAC can be a pain in that regard.

But not very promising, that's for sure. :-?

[martes86]

Is this yet another DRM joke, or is it real? If the latter, source? :yep:

[Reaves]

Ubisoft makes bunnies cry. :wah:

[Kromus]

Is this yet another DRM joke, or is it real? If the latter, source? :yep:

Should be Settlers 6 autopatching (patch 1.6)

Edit: Wasn`t that previous thread merged with this one?

[Brag]

Is this yet another DRM joke, or is it real? If the latter, source? :yep:

Martes, source is Settler's forum

[THE_MASK]

My SH4 auto patch works fine .

[TarJak]

You log into Ubi servers to play SHV. The game connects and you're ownership of the game is established. What next?

So what sort of data will Ubisoft be able to collect in their OSP session?

Most obvious is game time. When you log on, when you log off, how long the game is run for. Game saves and where you are up to in the game.

Game version whether it is patched or not and to what level. Based on what we have read so far it looks like there will be auto-patching of some sort.

Whether you are using mods and which ones.

Should be able to see what your system specs are and what drivers you are running. Potentially what other software you are running during the session including Firewall/AV Spyware detection etc.

What else? Will it look for other information outside your game session/folders?

[Elder-Pirate]

My SH4 auto patch works fine .


HEH HEH, so does mine because it doesn't have a chance on phoning home to Mama UBI for when I play SHIV, the Internet is disconnected. :D

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Notwebconnected.jpg

Update tag last for approx. 2 seconds and SHIV starts.

Too bad UBI. :arrgh!:

Only way to fly.

Course it may not be hooked up at their end ( YET ) but I'm not taking any chances. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/LETTER11-2.gif

[IanC]

Forced auto-updates from any program :down:
That's a little too close to a virus/malware for my taste.

[Onkel Neal]

All I'm saying is, if SH5 is a decent game and fun, will some nice stuff to play captain, and the realism is solid...

...I'm gonna be playing that sucker, don't care at all about the DRM :ping: Cannot wait to try it out.

[TarJak]

All I'm saying is, if SH5 is a decent game and fun, will some nice stuff to play captain, and the realism is solid...

...I'm gonna be playing that sucker, don't care at all about the DRM :ping: Cannot wait to try it out.
Any chance you can turn on a network snoop when you sign on to OSP? Would love to see what is being sent over the wire!

[Onkel Neal]

I cannot imagine they would do anything illegal. Not because Ubi is holy, but man, imagine the consequences when they were caught.

[tater]

They needn't do anything illegal, they won't have to to learn your gaming habits. That's valuable marketing data.

[TarJak]

I cannot imagine they would do anything illegal. Not because Ubi is holy, but man, imagine the consequences when they were caught.
I'm not suggesting they would do anything illegal, although working out what is illegal in which jurisdiction may be an interesting legal conundrum in this instance, but I'd still be interested to see exactly what data is sent.

Mind you the network snoop would probably not show you unencrypted data anyway. You'd need to see the packets before they were encrypted to know what they were sending anyhow.

In many ways this is one of the things that wrankles most with me. A company that I paid, (via royalties or whatever), then says they are going to send some data from my PC to their servers everytime I play the game, but they won't tell me what that data is because I might be a pirate.:88)

How exactly does this make sense to anyone?

IF it actually stopped software piracy, I'd agree that it would be a reasonable proposition, but at best, like all the other DRM's that are out there OSP will be a mere speed hump rather than a brick wall.

[Letum]

I cannot imagine they would do anything illegal. Not because Ubi is holy, but man, imagine the consequences when they were caught.

They have in the past.
Ubisoft have a number of class actions filed against several of their previous DRM systems, including starforce.
Without exception they where settled out of court, no doubt ofr a considerable amount of cash.

[Greenhornet]

I haven't been to the subsim forums for a while and have just read that SHV will have DRM. I have been playing Silent Hunter since SHII and have really enjoyed the game. I have purchased every copy as soon as it was released, but I won't be buying SHV.

I've experienced DRM with Rise of Flight that I bought without knowing what DRM was. Believe me it sucks. With Rise of Flight you get constant "cannot connect to master server" errors and I feel ripped off because I feel I only have half a game. If I wanted to play online games I would have bought World of Warcraft. Rise of flight developers have seen how much business they've lost and have decided to patch the game so you can play single player offline.... To little to late my friends... the damage is done.

I don't have an XBox or other console, but I'm sure we're going to see Game developers go in that direction, just look at your local EB Games outlet, the computer games section is a sliver of the store.

One thing I'm sure about though, as long as the game developers decide to go with DRM or other such protections, I'll be holding on to my cash for other hobbies!

[Rip]

All I'm saying is, if SH5 is a decent game and fun, will some nice stuff to play captain, and the realism is solid...

...I'm gonna be playing that sucker, don't care at all about the DRM :ping: Cannot wait to try it out.

I'm with you there. I really am in the mood for all night wide eyed fun. I am keeping an optimistically hopeful outlook on every single issue. The only one that worries me because I know how much it will set me off is the drm stuff. The weather has been known to knock out my internet for long stretches.

The good news is that the city I live in (Lafayette, LA) has a Fiber Optic to the home program and I think I should be able to get a fiber connection to my house by summers end. It is provided by the utility and I hope will be less likely to succumb to the crazy gulf coast weather.

Maybe if a storm does come I will just run your way and count on your "reliable internet connection" :yeah:

[Tarnsman]

I hope its not as bad as you say. im going to give it a go and see.

I dont understand why M$ played the PC game business so poorly and by extension everyone else. Basically IMHO highquality gaming is the only thing that PCs do well that is not done better elsewhere. If it were not for gaming why else buy a super quad core cpu unless you are designing aircraft or running an F1 team. My spreadsheet and word processing programs have been doing the same thing since 1995, just fine thank you.

Heck ATI and nVidia ought to be investing in PC game development since that is about the only reason to buy their mass market products. As for consoles, I've been there done that and I felt like I spent alot of money just to play Madden football with friends (no disrespect to Madden) An afternoon with a Playstation gets boring pretty quick for me. A weekend with my gaming rig is never enough time.

I hope DRM dosnt kill PC gaming, its one of my favorite hobbies. Maybe the industry should take a page from Ray Kroc founder of the McDonnalds franchise system: give away the burgers and fries and sell the soda.

[melendir]

I don't care if they get information from my computer. What I DO CARE is that what if someday I won't have internet connection or even worst the service for SHV ends at ubisoft and I still want to play SHV and can't!
I mean that I might like the game after 15 years and Ubisoft could long since be gone. I know it's far in the future, but someday future is present and I hate the idea of not being able to use something I've paid. :down:

On the other hand, I've already pre-ordered SHV from Play.com, but if that DRM causes me problems or annoys me enough, this could be last Ubisoft game I'm gonna buy!

Why don't they change it to one-time internet activation after installation. That way it could be used offline afterwards.
You would only need internet connection after installation or re-installation.

[TarJak]

THIS is the way to fight piracy: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/nintendo-pirate-to-pay-15m-20100209-np4i.html

Sue the muckers that create the copies and make them available.:arrgh!:

Only problem with that is you gotta find 'em first.

[RSColonel_131st]

Damn I'm sure late to the party here.

The people here who also visit simHQ might know me as one of the most vocal Anti-DRM Ranters on that site.

But I can't add much here to what has already been said. Just some facts:

1) Rise of Flight, the first major title to try this "always online" thing, has failed to provide a stable environment for the OSP, leading to repeated evenings without their paid-for game. The system is now changed to allow offline single player.

2) Just as RoF is withdrawing this system since it doesn't work, UBI steps up and announces the same system. Makes a lot of sense, really? Even though UBI certainly has a more stable server farm than NeoQB, connection issues can happen anywhere between them and you.

3) Almost a year ago, I predicted that Big Publishers want to sell you "Games as a Service" with a monthly or yearly prediction. Office 2010 from Microsoft is also now requiring an online connection for certain features. All these big Software companies are looking at Cloud Computing and their Vision is that your PC will simple be a "terminal", everything from the Operating System to Applications to Games is rented, not bought.

4) These online DRM systems destroy the second hand game market, meaning companies can sell short games for higher price since you can't simple resell them when you're trough.

5) EA recently shut down the Multiplayer-Matchmaking Servers for some of their 2008 and 2009 sport titles, telling those customers to buy the 2010 editions. So once a part or whole of your software is depended on publisher infrastructure, they can do pretty much anything with you. UBI could shut down the SH5 Servers when they release SH6. Or ask everyone still playing for a yearly subscription to "pay for the upkeep of servers for an old game".

6) As has been said, they will use personal data gathered from you for datamining and marketing. Rise of Flight Developers sent everyone who hadn't played for a few weeks a survey email saying "Why aren't you playing your game?" Who wants that kind of monitoring?

************************
The last years have shown one thing very clearly: Software Companies want to maximize their profit while reducing investment. First they cut away printed manuals and big boxes, then they introduced advertisements in games, and now they are selling "Downloadable Premium Content" or Online Features like "Windows Live Gold". The same things that used to be included with a 50 hour+ gameplay release are now "pay extra" for a 10 hour gameplay title.

That some of this stuff is legally grey (like restricting resale rights) doesn't bother these companies since no average Joe Blow can afford to take them to court.

Everyone who says he's going to buy SH5 regardless is encouraging this behaviour and we are all ultimatly losing our freedom to play our games where we want, when we want and how we want by it.

I haven't bought a single online activated game yet. It's hard with titles like the Black Shark helo sim and such, but I'm not gonna sit there in three years and moan my "removed" game I paid for.

If people want to learn more about implications of online DRM and examples where it has already failed, please refer my simHQ Commentary "My Games need to stay my own".

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_092a.html

[JScones]

THIS is the way to fight piracy: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/nintendo-pirate-to-pay-15m-20100209-np4i.html

Sue the muckers that create the copies and make them available.:arrgh!:

Only problem with that is you gotta find 'em first.
Hehe, saw that. Bet he got a surprise when he got a knock at the door!

[TarJak]

Too right and I'll bet he wondering where he's gonna come up with $1.5million plus the $100k Nintendo legal bill. Servers the stoopid mucker right IMHO.:D

[Jimbuna]

As worrying as it is, DRM looks like the way forward in the software companies plans as a means of combatting piracy.

It is gratifying to see there is a growing resitance to what many see as a draconian measure. This resistance is gathering support and an early sign of success would be the ROF game.

I'd be happy with a 'half way house' outcome.........online registration and the ability for single player mode offline.

Ever the optimist.

[TarJak]

Damn I'm sure late to the party here.

The people here who also visit simHQ might know me as one of the most vocal Anti-DRM Ranters on that site.

But I can't add much here to what has already been said. Just some facts:

1) Rise of Flight, the first major title to try this "always online" thing, has failed to provide a stable environment for the OSP, leading to repeated evenings without their paid-for game. The system is now changed to allow offline single player.

2) Just as RoF is withdrawing this system since it doesn't work, UBI steps up and announces the same system. Makes a lot of sense, really? Even though UBI certainly has a more stable server farm than NeoQB, connection issues can happen anywhere between them and you.

3) Almost a year ago, I predicted that Big Publishers want to sell you "Games as a Service" with a monthly or yearly prediction. Office 2010 from Microsoft is also now requiring an online connection for certain features. All these big Software companies are looking at Cloud Computing and their Vision is that your PC will simple be a "terminal", everything from the Operating System to Applications to Games is rented, not bought.

4) These online DRM systems destroy the second hand game market, meaning companies can sell short games for higher price since you can't simple resell them when you're trough.

5) EA recently shut down the Multiplayer-Matchmaking Servers for some of their 2008 and 2009 sport titles, telling those customers to buy the 2010 editions. So once a part or whole of your software is depended on publisher infrastructure, they can do pretty much anything with you. UBI could shut down the SH5 Servers when they release SH6. Or ask everyone still playing for a yearly subscription to "pay for the upkeep of servers for an old game".

6) As has been said, they will use personal data gathered from you for datamining and marketing. Rise of Flight Developers sent everyone who hadn't played for a few weeks a survey email saying "Why aren't you playing your game?" Who wants that kind of monitoring?

************************
The last years have shown one thing very clearly: Software Companies want to maximize their profit while reducing investment. First they cut away printed manuals and big boxes, then they introduced advertisements in games, and now they are selling "Downloadable Premium Content" or Online Features like "Windows Live Gold". The same things that used to be included with a 50 hour+ gameplay release are now "pay extra" for a 10 hour gameplay title.

That some of this stuff is legally grey (like restricting resale rights) doesn't bother these companies since no average Joe Blow can afford to take them to court.

Everyone who says he's going to buy SH5 regardless is encouraging this behaviour and we are all ultimatly losing our freedom to play our games where we want, when we want and how we want by it.

I haven't bought a single online activated game yet. It's hard with titles like the Black Shark helo sim and such, but I'm not gonna sit there in three years and moan my "removed" game I paid for.

If people want to learn more about implications of online DRM and examples where it has already failed, please refer my simHQ Commentary "My Games need to stay my own".

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_092a.html
Great post! Says it all really and outlines what the OSP is really for. Increasing sales for Ubisoft. NOT fighting piracy or improving services to customers.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

If we all went out today and bought ROF, since our hated D-word is gone, would that, could that have an impact on how other developers see DRM. If ROF ditched something nobody liked, and then sales sky-rocket, would other compainis ditch it too? What would it actually take to make companies see our point of view? Money!

[Iron Budokan]

I'd be happy with a 'half way house' outcome.........online registration and the ability for single player mode offline.

Ever the optimist.

I could also live with online registration.

[Reece]

@ RSColonel_131st, agree 100%, I will never buy a game with DRM/OSP!:stare:

[THE_MASK]

I can see why they would want it though .
$1.5m fine for illegal game upload
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26699545-952,00.html

[Brag]

@RScolonel

Thank you. Excellent post. A periscope view of what the future may bring if we don't stand firm and snap our wallets shut.

[KL-alfman]

@ RSColonel_131st, agree 100%, I will never buy a game with DRM/OSP!:stare:

quoted and seconded!

[Ragtag]

RSColonel my old 131st mate, i totally agree with you. Great post.

[Seeadler]

Rise of flight developers have seen how much business they've lost and have decided to patch the game so you can play single player offline...
This is done at the insistence of the publisher for Western Europe "Aerosoft", because "Aerosoft" only sell a few copies with this restriction. Neoqb, the developers never wanted to remove it. The same with the account servers, Aerosoft will establish in the near future his own servers because of the weak connection to the Neoqb servers :)

[Onkel Neal]

I haven't been to the subsim forums for a while and have just read that SHV will have DRM. I have been playing Silent Hunter since SHII and have really enjoyed the game. I have purchased every copy as soon as it was released, but I won't be buying SHV.

I've experienced DRM with Rise of Flight that I bought without knowing what DRM was. Believe me it sucks. With Rise of Flight you get constant "cannot connect to master server" errors and I feel ripped off because I feel I only have half a game. If I wanted to play online games I would have bought World of Warcraft. Rise of flight developers have seen how much business they've lost and have decided to patch the game so you can play single player offline.... To little to late my friends... the damage is done.

I don't have an XBox or other console, but I'm sure we're going to see Game developers go in that direction, just look at your local EB Games outlet, the computer games section is a sliver of the store.

One thing I'm sure about though, as long as the game developers decide to go with DRM or other such protections, I'll be holding on to my cash for other hobbies!

Welcome back. We have several topics on the DRM theme, so I merged yours with this one.

I personally have not experienced a game with online all the time DRM, so I cannot comment. If it's as bad as you paint it, then I would agree, it's not acceptable. I bought ROF a couple weeks ago but with all the server problems and several assignments ahead of it, I have not had time to install it :wah:

I wouldn't be surprised if eventually all games go to the console, except the really big selling PC games. Games like Silent Hunter are on their last legs, and this combination of DRM and core fan outrage will drive the final nail in the coffin.

[kiwi_2005]

Yeah. I have "The Orange Box" (Halflife 2) and it really blows to have to go online each time I want to play it.

:down::down::down::down::down::down::down::down::d own::down::down:

Just don't install the Orange box and then stop playing it then year or so later go back and forget password. :damn:

I had a hell of a time trying to convince the techs i was telling the truth, cause i thought i lost the manual that had the key printed on it I was stuffed. Well not really stuffed i could still play Half life 2 and Portal but not Team-fortress 2 which online is required. Did a good clean up and found the manual, took a digital photo of the key which they required and emailed that to them once they confirmed i wasn't bull ****ting them they were very supportive. But what angered me is i was telling the truth from the start!

Whatever happen to Innocent till proven guilty! :O:

Besides didn't matter after about a week of playing TF2 i gave it up couldn't really get into it. So i resold The orange box and made a profit! Auction sites let the bidding begin. lol

[ronjonthobi]

i think that ubisoft should take a long hard look at this site before the ever announce something as stupid and ridicluous as this DRM feature. :damn:

Also i have found out....i think it was from subsim that 89% of people who would buy the game won't beacause of the DRM feature. And i am 100% behind those guys. :DL

I also think that ubisoft :down: are going to lose so much money from the lack of sales of the game if its brought out with the feature.....and lets be honest the game is probably gonna get cracked anyhow...its just gonna be the legit gamers who are gonna get screwed over :wah:

[RSColonel_131st]

RSColonel my old 131st mate, i totally agree with you. Great post.

Woha, I had no idea you were around here at Subsim! Greets!

LukeFF is also somewhere here... small world, isn't it.

[cappy70]

When it comes to patching ,there's another trouble spot for it.

I.e. patch install and server/game v.1.0, doesn't recognize game afterwards due to change and you get downtime to it is fixed.

This is a tested fact.

[Oldgold]

I'm going below decks.Taking her down to 130 meters. Onlline drm too rough a storm for a old pc gamer.Will resurface when sanity returns to the gaming industry.:damn:

[BigVette]

I remember being deployed at sea whilst in the Marines and having a laptop to spend the down time is a huge morale booster. With a laptop I could go anywhere on the boat that I otherwise had access to, and in my own peace and security do email on my own off-time (via Outlook while offline, and just send it when I get to a hub where I can,) I can watch movies with my headphones, or I can do something like play a wargame or sub sim to take my mind off the other stuff while not on duty.

If software is going to eventually all go online for verification than the industry is doomed to fail because even people who lawfully purchase the software will hold out because as in my case, even a legal copy wouldn't allow me to use it when and where I needed to.

I can understand software developers plight, but I find it ironic that a WWII German Navy war sim would revert to a nazi-esque form of copy protection. :arrgh!:

As a life-long avid PC flight simmer, I know full well that if you want the good payware add-ons, you have to pay for them otherwise there will be no one around to continue to develop the software. In turn, PC flight sims are a dying breed like barber shops, there are far and few between. I'd like to think that most intelligent people who have jobs and can afford to pay for their software realize this.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SS BigVette and TeeJay82 http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[Rip]

I remember being deployed at sea whilst in the Marines and having a laptop to spend the down time is a huge morale booster. With a laptop I could go anywhere on the boat that I otherwise had access to, and in my own peace and security do email on my own off-time (via Outlook while offline, and just send it when I get to a hub where I can,) I can watch movies with my headphones, or I can do something like play a wargame or sub sim to take my mind off the other stuff while not on duty.

If software is going to eventually all go online for verification than the industry is doomed to fail because even people who lawfully purchase the software will hold out because as in my case, even a legal copy wouldn't allow me to use it when and where I needed to.

I can understand software developers plight, but I find it ironic that a WWII German Navy war sim would revert to a nazi-esque form of copy protection. :arrgh!:



By a French company no less. Take that you krauts! :haha::haha::haha:

[Blood_splat]

inappropriate image removed

[Elder-Pirate]

Thank you for your opinions... some realistic and some not (spent over 3 hours reading this topic :P)

If this DRM comes i will not buy this game either but i understand the developers desire to control who plays and who dont (pirates)... ive been playing games since Monkey in qbasic and over the years i learned one thing: The more devs struggle to keep pirates at bay, the harder the impact on loyal coustomers.

easy put: the more rules and laws a government makes... the more the tax payers have to pay too keep jails going

and after reading this, id rather get married to "Starforce" than submitting to this type of system.... put to the egde..

Too Bad...

and if this system comes to life in all pc games... either you need unique usernames and passwords for every game ... or risk getting monsterhacked with only 1 for em all

SO like the rest: DRM = im not buying... NO DRM = Ahead Flank:arrgh!:


Don't think the SHV Devs really had anything to do with it but I think I found a company whom has the same marketing. :DL

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/Somebodywemayknow.gif

[THE_MASK]

Are there any benefits being online the whole time while playing single player ? Could anything be added dynamically via the servers while i am playing the single player campaign . And no , i dont mean malicious or tracking programs either . I mean anything that would enhance the game .

[TDK1044]

The only advantage is for the Publisher, not the player. They control the game.

[Brag]

The only advantage Y can see is if:
One needed a less powerful machine to play

Let's assume publisher kept the game and only fed you needed bits of the game related to your positon and stage of the game.

Example: You sre starting, all you need is the harbour and what goes on there.. Once you get underway, the game updates to let's say what goes on 25 miles around you.

Would that be possible?

[onelifecrisis]

Whoah! Deja vu!!

[martes86]

The only advantage Y can see is if:
One needed a less powerful machine to play

Let's assume publisher kept the game and only fed you needed bits of the game related to your positon and stage of the game.

Example: You sre starting, all you need is the harbour and what goes on there.. Once you get underway, the game updates to let's say what goes on 25 miles around you.

Would that be possible?

Possible, yes. But extremely useless (and server-side costly) from a technical POV, and a very unlikely scenario.

Cheers :rock:

[Blood_splat]

It would be kind of cool if the DD's and DE's could be controlled by humans so you wouldn't know if it's AI or human. You would log in and get a message that says, so and so is engaging a convoy do you wish to protect the convoy? yes or no. All of a sudden your controlling a destroyer.

I need to get some sleep.:rotfl2:

[piri_reis]

Not that they have implemented, but
There can be some advantages related to cooperative playing.
Example, you'd create a group and have your friends join. The server would start a campaign for the group, and everybody would start playing on their own time. Depending on their actions, sinkings, or detections (convoy or they themselves detected) the online campaign engine can feed the rest of the group with information and change routes of convoys, destroyer groups, air groups, etc.. Possibly realtime radio comms. between currently online members of the group, but you wouldnt actually see them visually. Timecompression and the data synchronization of players would have to be somehow mixed in the equation here..

I know it sounds like cooperative multiplayer wbut since this game takes place in a big world, and people use TC, this server side software approach might be a way to implement it.

The Savegame and nocd feature pitches they are making are useless, they need to be thinking in terms of cooperative stuff to sell the idea to us. As it stands it offers nothing to the player.

[Adriatico]

Are there any benefits being online the whole time while playing single player ?

There is one: "Darling I really can't quit the game now, it takes some 20 min. with our connection to save the game... can't you do that shopping by yourself ?"
...and you're freee!
:know:

[RSColonel_131st]

Piri got it.

I was hoping for the same in RoF - a game for which it is easier to explain the concept. For example, someone might shoot down a well known ace in Singleplayer, or a certain squadron might get decimated.

Next day, another single player would get an "dynamic campaign" change that reflects these things.

In theory, if you have people playing SP on both sides (like, Commanding Destroyers and Subs) you could have a pretty good "offline dynamic campaign" that is actually not randomly generated but generated by real human fights on both sides.

But alas, they didn't think that far, and since OSP will be the same platform for all UBI games, I think it highly unlikely that such game-specific features will be introduced.

[Takeda Shingen]

Merged sober's online benefits thread into main DRM discussion.

The Management

[Apos]

Well i suprised myself but i must put that info here. I found something good about DRM.

In news about Battlefield: Bad Company2's DRM i found information about 2 modes of DRMs security: Online and Offline. After online game registration we have 2 options. To run and play game in online mode, internet connection is needed only (no DVD) or offline mode, only DVD game disk is needed. So in offline mode we can plug out our internet cable ;)

The thing is EA =/= Ubi.com but DRM = DRM?

[razark]

The thing is EA =/= Ubi.com but DRM = DRM?

All DRM has the same goal. Not all DRM works the same way.

Unless they've lied to us, there is no offline mode for SHV.

[Orbitchicken]

No internet connection in my new home, just found out about this 'no offline mode' and I might actually cry. Perhaps I can just make a cardboard periscope and sit in my room whilst making the odd ping noise. :damn:

I need a beer and a cigarette after this news. Can't bear to even look at my PC now, not even going to turn it on any more. Curses to those corporate muppets who came up with this nonsense!!! :wah:



I hope you guys all really enjoy it though :)

[Brag]

Orbit, don't worry too much. Ubi will have to have an off line mode if they don't want to go broke.

They will soon hear the snap of our wallets shutting closed. :up:

[ERPP8]

Was this the first thread about this?

[frau kaleun]

I think this is a thread resulting from the merging of approximately 3 billion other threads on this subject. I could be wrong, I lost count somewhere in the mid 2 billions.

[Webster]

I think this is a thread resulting from the merging of approximately 3 billion other threads on this subject. I could be wrong, I lost count somewhere in the mid 2 billions.

this was one of the first threads about the DRM and it had about 4 other threads that were added in/merged along the way but the majority of it is the subject matter so the size of this thread is mainly due to the topic and how strong the opinions are about it

[Elder-Pirate]

this was one of the first threads about the DRM and it had about 4 other threads that were added in/merged along the way but the majority of it is the subject matter so the size of this thread is mainly due to the topic and how strong the opinions are about it


Ah its just started for it's only 61 pages sofar. :ping: :arrgh!:

Er 62 starting with mine. lol

[Rip]

Ah its just started for it's only 61 pages sofar. :ping: :arrgh!:

Er 62 starting with mine. lol

By the end of March I bet a beer it will be over one hundred and sixty.

[Elder-Pirate]

By the end of March I bet a beer it will be over one hundred and sixty.


No doubt, maybe more. :arrgh!: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/oleman/a11101-2.gif

[Archive1]

If Ubi goes forward with this as an entirely on-line game DRM it would seem to me that the community might go back to the drawing board and work to further revise, improve, upgrade SH3. I could see the amazing talents of the GWX team, as originally comprised or in a new guise, pushing the modding envelop beyond their latest fine product.

With advances like the Open Hatch, Diesel Room interior, perhaps some of Tomi's stuff, improved weather (snow, drizzle when leaving port, etc), revised contact with headquarters, ever better ships and subs, the Letters from Home project...add your own thoughts...I could see an advanced suitable substitute for SHV that would satisfy most players. I'm not a modder and don't have the fine skills they have and would understand that the original team would want to get out of the pressures and commitment that would be required, but there's always room for new talent to emerge. Perhaps with some modding tutorials the modding community could help newby modders along - who knows what might emerge?

What I'm afraid could (not 'would' but 'could') happen is that as the community becomes disenchanted with an on-line only SHV, it could begin to drift away from SH entirely, settle in with some other game and this whole thing might collapse. While I'm grateful for UBI for SH I think they will be destroying a world they helped create.

[Brag]

This should be mandatory reading for marketing students.

What we do know is that the content of these pages is spilling all over the internet. Lurkers from all over are reading this. We might not realize this, we have started something bigger than Ubi's billions of euros. I salute all of you authors of these pages :salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::s alute:

[Elder-Pirate]

Someone loan me about a trillion euros and I'll start the bidding for buying out UBISOFT. :D

Course I'll bribe the share holders a little. :arrgh!:


Well I can dream can't I? :D

[Reece]

Hey we should all put our money in and hire our own devs!!:yeah: Hmmm, what sort of protection should we use?:hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Hmmm, what sort of protection should we use?:hmmm:
I'm not sayin'. Nope, not gonna tackle that one.:rotfl2:


Oh, you meant for the game.

I know a guy named Guido. He loves his protection money.

[frau kaleun]

I'm not sayin'. Nope, not gonna tackle that one.:rotfl2:

I was gonna say "depends on where they've been" but, hey...

NO OFFENSE DEVS I love you it's only a funny. :D

[Steeltrap]

I was gonna say "depends on where they've been" but, hey...

NO OFFENSE DEVS I love you it's only a funny. :D

Depends if they're docking in the usual pen or attempting incursion of a foreign harbour, hey?

[Captain Wreckless]

:o are you joking?

No he's not. That's why I waited over a year or more before I bought it. By then it was released in a gold edition with everything and no Boontybox.

CW :arrgh!:

[sidslotm]

I probably will not go any further with Silent Hunter regretably, but they do have the right to protect their investment with the tools they have.

I have an alarm on my house hard wired with hidden traps, heh. that's all

maybe in a few years when SH7 is out they may concider re-releaseing SH5 or 6 without the DRM, who nows.

StarForce,, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me":sunny:

[Brag]

One major factor Ubi marketing has failed to recognize is that many urban areas in the U.S. don't have reliable enough internet service. A good example is the D.C Metro Area, the U.S, capital with over 6,000,000 inhabitants. Large areas in the Midwest and Mountain states have only dial up connections. This alone will reflect reduced sales.

Then, there is a large percentage of people who are dead set against any DRM or similar system.

It isn't Subsimmers alone who are in the great majority against DRM. Ubi will see their sales plummet in other games, too.

Predicting a dismal 2009-2010 4th quarter. I expect Ubi to drop DRM.
By then, it might be too late as angry gamers might have taken a different route.

[Archive1]

Brag: That's precisely the concern I expressed in my post above at #919 - that the community may waste away while UBI dithers.

[Brag]

Brag: That's precisely the concern I expressed in my post above at #919 - that the community may waste away while UBI dithers.

The Subsim community will not desintegrate. They will not pay money to Ubi. But that will change the face of the community. As I write this and think things through, I see the birth of a sort of underground and that some disintegration can take place.

Ubi's move is stupidly, crimminally pro pirate.

[Cdr84]

This is little different than Pay to Play.

Do not purchase or support it.

It does not belong to you if you need somebody else's permission to use it.

I hate this type of DRM so bad I wouldn't even use a :arrgh!: copy of it.

Cdr

[IanC]

It does not belong to you if you need somebody else's permission to use it.


I like that. Very true.

[Herz]

As someone who plays games from all different kinds of genres, this whole flaming of DRM on here is just ridiculous and won't do anything to cease it from existing. It's not like it's new to the gaming industry either. Permanent online connectivity has been used in various other games, but the RTS and RPG communities have become big fans of it recently. I understand some people can't afford broadband or don't care to rely on this connectivity, but this is one of the experiences gamers all across the PC world are currently facing. The old presentation and distribution of games we once knew will never return as video games are evolving as a entertainment medium. Your frustrations are understandable, but it'd be best to cope with it now to prevent future stress.

I'll be buying the game regardless of what it has within. SH3 doesn't run on this 26" monitor due to technicalities and SH4 was fairly mediocre in game-play. SH5 seems to be a reasonable game, so why not? While Subsim may be a huge part of the Silent Hunter community, the people here who refuse to buy the game will be nothing but a small dent in SH5's profit. In the large scheme of things, the game should still sell very well. With the style of online connectivity, we should definitely expect further DLC as well.

[IanC]

As someone who plays games from all different kinds of genres, this whole flaming of DRM on here is just ridiculous and won't do anything to cease it from existing. <snip>

I don't believe that. If enough customers complain, things can change, big companies sometimes do listen.
As for the small dent we at subsim make, do you think we're the only ones? The dent is far bigger than you seem to think.
You can bend over and say it's the way of the future with gaming and there's no point fighting it, but I say bullocks to that.

[tonschk]

I'll be buying the game regardless of what it has within.

.

ASAP ASAP :yeah:, I need to BUY the :salute: SILENT HUNTER 5 :woot:Game ASAP , :up: Cant wait to install in my PC ASAP :yeah:


.

[The Enigma]

This is little different than Pay to Play.

Do not purchase or support it.

It does not belong to you if you need somebody else's permission to use it.

I hate this type of DRM so bad I wouldn't even use a :arrgh!: copy of it.

Cdr

And that's one of the reasons why I ain't gonna buy it, despite all
the eye candy UBI throws at me.

[Hitman]

It's not just about confort and being able to play when and where you want, it's about PRIVACY

A guy in the spanish forum just commented that he had been using a game with such a DRM recently but got fed up from it and stopped playing. Well, he just receiced an e-mail from the game's company asking him why he stopped playing, if he is not satisfied with the product ... :nope:

[michaelws]

I too will not buy....not with the constant online requirement. I want to own what I buy and not seek ongoing permission to use what is rightfully mine.

[tonschk]

ASAP ASAP ,:salute: I Will Buy the :yeah: SILENT HUNTER 5 :woot:Game ASAP , cant wait , Please :up: UBISOFT Hurry up :yeah:

[The Enigma]

@tonschk:
Are you working for UBI or are you spamming?:down:

[tonschk]

@tonschk:
Are you working for UBI or are you spamming?:down:

:yeah: I Just Need To Buy the SILENT HUNTER 5 ASAP :yeah: , cant wait , I need the SH5 ,I am addicted just to the Silent Hunter series game therefore , Hurry up UBI

http://1.2.3.13/bmi/images.idgentertainment.de/images/idgwpgsgp/bdb/2096972/800x600_prop.jpg

[The Enigma]

I can understand that you are enthusiastic,
but why are you posting this now for the 3rd time in a row.

It gives me the impression of you spamming and enforcing your opinion on all who will not buy the game for the reasons stated.

So please stop posting the same message over and over again.

[Diopos]

It is a bit vague actually...
Are you buying a PRODUCT (the game) or a SERVICE (the ability to play a game) ??? :hmmm:

[Question not limited to SH5/Ubi]





.

[Darkhat]

Stop screwing around so much, please. After all, it is way better than SecuROM. Cause at least it doesn't install rookit and spyware and destroys your hardrive and allows you to only play EA games...

Be thankfull. :yeah:

[The Enigma]

Be thankfull. :yeah:

We must be thankful for this sad anti piracy implementation :o

What about not playing the game where and when you want to?
What about privacy?
What about loosing the internet connection in the heat of a battle?
What about not knowing what gets uploaded to their fine service?
What about the future, if the game isn't attractive (money) anymore to UBI, will their fine service last?
What about not being able to sell your game?
What about treating honest buyers like terrorists?

Ever thought about that?

Despite the many new (great) screenshots and (p)reviews, the issues of this DRM solution aren't suddenly gone.

[Herz]

Stop screwing around so much, please. After all, it is way better than SecuROM. Cause at least it doesn't install rookit and spyware and destroys your hardrive and allows you to only play EA games...

Be thankfull. :yeah:

That's an excellent point. Spore anyone? ;)

[tomfon]

A guy in the spanish forum just commented that he had been using a game with such a DRM recently but got fed up from it and stopped playing. Well, he just receiced an e-mail from the game's company asking him why he stopped playing, if he is not satisfied with the product ... :nope:

Isn't it wonderful when companies show their concern for their customers? :rotfl2:

[Elder-Pirate]

I'm seeing some newbies here lately ( other threads than just this one ) whom I think are really plugging OSP.

Hope UBI's Daddy Warbucks check is high enough for you.

We'll see who's cheering in a few weeks.

[Brag]

I'm seeing some newbies here lately ( other threads than just this one ) whom I think are really plugging OSP.

Hope UBI's Daddy Warbucks check is high enough for you.

We'll see who's cheering in a few weeks.

Yeah, they come in groups or in quick succession one after the other and make brainless statements.

Pretty laughable. :haha:

[razark]

It is a bit vague actually...
Are you buying a PRODUCT (the game) or a SERVICE (the ability to play a game) ??? :hmmm:

[Question not limited to SH5/Ubi]


No, you're buying a license to use a software application.

[Cdr84]

On another note, unless I missed it (didn't read all 64 pages) no one has brought up the effect this can have on mods.

UBI can easily decide which mods you may use or stop you from using them all together with this type of DRM.

Read your standard EULA of any game.

Cdr

[Webster]

On another note, unless I missed it (didn't read all 64 pages) no one has brought up the effect this can have on mods.

UBI can easily decide which mods you may use or stop you from using them all together with this type of DRM.

Read your standard EULA of any game.

Cdr

the mods issue has been widely talked about but we dont know if it will be an issue or not untill we get the game.

[Ishigami]

Just to add a little more confusion:

In Germany there are regulations that give private end users (business users are different matter) the right to use software if they own the data carrier.
The thing is once you buy a game on e.g. DVD at a store you automatically have a valid sales contract with the store, not with the publisher. You already paid for the software, you own the data carrier and therefore you have the right to use the software no matter what.
Eula and stuff does not matter at this point anymore because publishers usually ask you to agree on the Eula terms on installation. At a point where you already purchased the product and that is not allowed in Germany therefore the Eula is void.
If the publisher wants the Eula to be effective he needs the end user to agree on the terms before the purchase. That is usually the chase for software bought via online distribution or the likes. You agree on the Eula and then you buy the software, that’s allowed.
Of course there other things that could get the Eula to be effective like an online updates (e.g. MMOs) and more stuff but that taking it too far I think.

What I wanted to say is that general assumptions (e.g. it is in the Eula) are not right for peers in other regions because they may have different laws.
As German I usually don’t care about Euals because most of them are in fact void for me.
And because UbiSofts DRM endangers my user rights, e.g. the one from above, I won’t support them.

I hope I did not write it too confusing… it actually rather simple…

[Schultz]

1 funny thing about DRM, the saves won't occupy any longer your PC memory :haha:

[SurfnSea]

1 funny thing about DRM, the saves won't occupy any longer your PC memory :haha:

Well, I'm not laughing. Be nice to UBI. Just because they think saves not taking up our computer space is a better thing does not mean we should put them down for being ignorant (eh... I'm being facetious here btw).

I'd much rather have my save because I make at least one back-up of it on other drive(s). On their server I have to hope my one save is not lost and accessible when I'm ready to play.

[razark]

Well, I'm not laughing. Be nice to UBI. Just because they think saves not taking up our computer space is a better thing does not mean we should put them down for being ignorant (eh... I'm being facetious here btw).

I'd much rather have my save because I make at least one back-up of it on other drive(s). On their server I have to hope my one save is not lost and accessible when I'm ready to play.

The saves will be on their server, as well as your local machine.

[Nordmann]

The only advantage is for the Publisher, not the player. They control the game.

Very true. This is what we are really looking at, total control of the customer's access to the product. Oh, they dress it up as a piracy deterrant, helpful to the user, but really they are controlling, limiting even, our access to a product we have bought and paid for. Call it what you like, defend DRM and the reason for it's existence, but all it ever comes down to is control.

I own and play many indie titles which feature little, or in some cases no DRM whatsoever, this is because the developers have realised that said DRM does not stop pirates. It only encourages more of them, as pirated versions no doubt do not contain the DRM designed to stop them in the first place. The only people who suffer, is the law abiding consumer, punished yet again in a vain attempt to stop a minority.

Consumers need far more legal protection, especially as far as software is concerned; time and time again developers/publishers wipe the floor with their customers, burying them in legal obligations which are unethical at best, and damned criminal at worst. Were any of us to behave in the manner of some of these corporations, we would no doubt be hauled through the legal system in short order! But as with many things in life, money talks.

Sadly, this is a growing trend we are now facing. Years ago a CD Key was sufficient proof of legal purchase, and at most, registration of the game on the company's website. Yes, keys could be generated, or in some cases stolen, but pirates always find a way, no amount of measures will ever stop these particularly inventive individuals. Some companies have seen the light, and continue to offer products which do not alienate the consumer. These are unfortunately becoming a rarity, especially insofar as the larger brands are concerned.

So, what can we, the consumers, do about this situation? Well, we really have two choices. Buy the game, and submit to the authoritarian regime being thrust upon us, or avoid the game, until such time as the company in question realises we are not as stupid as they first thought. While I realise it is unrealistic to suppose that 95% of the target market will avoid the game, if a large enough number do so, they may just take notice of their mistake. It has happened before, if enough people protest, DRM can and indeed will be removed.

The coming months are likely to be interesting, and indeed I will be following articles related to SH5's DRM issue. If it is removed, then I will buy the game, if not, they will have to convince me that their system is absolutely 100% flawless. False promises simply will not do.

[DirtyACE]

Same here. Will not be buying SH5 unless it comes DRM-free or there's a patch to remove it.

Ubi must live in some fantasy world if they think that everyone has automatic access to the internet with very stable connections.

[Glock17]

that and the fact that its naive to presume that a developer will support such online services infinatly for any title.
Mean what will happen if Ubi goes bellyup in a few years for example?
Dont think they will have time and the fund to make removal patch then :P
Or even worse, all that data storage and traffic will cost them money. So the longer we play the less profit they will make. Since the goal of any cooperation is making profit, its not unlikey we have to pay in the end for the OSP jsut to be able to play it.
There must be alot more of simular scenarios. Wich all comes down to that i dont trust any coorperation to provide such a system for free till infinity. And lets face these kind of games are still played after many years.

[Nightowl]

I have bought every SH game that has come our way, even buying extra copies to give to friends & relatives as gifts, but as good as this new SH5 looks, I will not buy it if it is DRM controlled. I do not have a stabile Internet connection, it disconnects without notice at different times of the day, besides I will not play a game that I have to jump thru hoops in order to play it. It just isn't right. I noticed there are a lot less computer games on the shelves of the stores now a days, compared to years back, probably because most games are so bad, the content etc. As far as I am concerned, the only game in town is the SH series, & I still play SH3 every single week. I do hope that Ubisoft wakes up to their mistake & does away with DRM before the game goes on the market, because it will surely kill sales, & even to do away with it at a later date will be too late, the damage to their sales will already have occurred. We all want the game to be a success, but it won't be with DRM. -Nightowl

[OLt Habi]

I have been playing SH3 quite a while now and never bothered to upgrade to Version 4 (the thought of the war in the Pacific never tickled my fancy - it seems that Ubi realised that it did a knock in their sales, by adding the Atlantic again).

When I saw that SH5 was due to be released and it was on pre-order I was very tempted to get this one. I liked all the new features and the new game play. Then I saw "Permanent internet connetion required" my intentions were hit by a couple of torpedos and that sank SH5 for me.

Apparently Rise of Flight tried the same thing, but quickly saw their error of their ways. I hope that Ubi will come to the same conclusion.

For me no SH5 until this DRM business has been done away with. Pity to say this. As a fellow South African mentioned in this thread, bandwidth is a problem in SA and to have a permanent internet access at 384kb, I don't think so.:down:

[Nordmann]

For me no SH5 until this DRM business has been done away with. Pity to say this. As a fellow South African mentioned in this thread, bandwidth is a problem in SA and to have a permanent internet access at 384kb, I don't think so.:down:

The thing is, a lot of people have internet issues, unless you happen to have an extremely good cable provider (my country only has one in any case), or a reliable DSL connection (yeah right!), then this is a real deal breaker. If I had a pound for every internet problem I've had over the years, I would be a very rich man!

A single-player game requiring a permanent net connection is simply ridiculous, and completely unnecessary in the first place. It will not stop pirates, they will find a way around this DRM, the only people they are punishing are those who have legitimately purchased the game. Bad move Ubi, very bad move indeed.

[Steeltrap]

Hi Nordman, there's no way H.G.Wells would have made an error in using "it's" when the correct word is "its".

If you're putting a quote in your sig, it's probably better to get it right....

Just trying to be helpful.

Cheers

[Nordmann]

Hi Nordman, there's no way H.G.Wells would have made an error in using "it's" when the correct word is "its".

If you're putting a quote in your sig, it's probably better to get it right....

Just trying to be helpful.

Cheers

I didn't ask for your help, bugger off.

[michaelws]

But then, Steeltrap, I think the period (.) would be more properly embedded within the quotation marks.

Silly anyway that we mire ourselves in this childish way. I too am being childish with this reply.

[ACR]

i dont think its piracy. its a way to collect data about the user. they can log the way we play and how long we play. my bet is- when in sh5 many people spend many hours i 1:1 patrols sh6 will be time charged via online transations!

[Armistead]

Well the future setup is seems obvious. The addon "The End Years" will have to be paid for. If they charge for online play per month,,,not gonna work unless it reaches a level of greatness.

[Onkel Neal]

Apparently Rise of Flight tried the same thing, but quickly saw their error of their ways. I hope that Ubi will come to the same conclusion.



I'm not sure "quickly" is the word you're looking for, they tell me ROF kept their DRM in place 11 months. That sounds like it did its job.

[UnSalted]

I guess I'm not going to be buying SH5 either. Since UbiSoft has demonstrated the customer is not a priority on previous games and still seems dedicated to the proposition I won't bother them with my business.

But Neal your initial remarks regarding it not being for people sitting around in their doublewides without internet connections were quite funny. I managed to earn enough in my lifetime to retire and build a very nice home worth over $600K at current prices and pay for it before I was 45. I live outside the coverage areas for high-speed cable or DSL and don't see the need for a dedicated satellite either.

As I said, it was funny. Perhaps one day you can look up from High Horse Mountain and realize there were people looking down at you as well. :)

[Steeltrap]

But then, Steeltrap, I think the period (.) would be more properly embedded within the quotation marks.

You'd be incorrect in thinking that.

I don't see what's childish about correcting errors. If I take the view I can write whatever I want however I want I might just as well type JGKOFHgti9ewhjkofn kl'firwhygsdioklF. :D

Cheers

[Steeltrap]

I didn't ask for your help, bugger off.

I note you corrected it, however.

The alternative to "bugger off" is you might appreciate that someone bothers to read what you take the trouble to put in your sig. It is meant to be read, isn't it?

Perhaps I should have used a PM.

[Webster]

I didn't ask for your help, bugger off.

you could have just ignored his comment, there was no need to be so abrupt


Perhaps I should have used a PM.


yes, the open forum wasn't the best place for correcting another members spelling errors.


im one of the worst spellers around so its a good thing being able to spell correctly isnt a requirement to post here :O:

[3DDevil]

I was thinking about this DRM issue and I had a thought about where UBI may be going with this.....

I recently purchased Rise of Flight, without realising the online all the time requirement. This didnt affect me greatly. Another surprise was that the game only came with 2 flyable aircraft... ROF slowly released further aircraft which you had to purchase at $7.50 US a piece. Now I purchased them and enjoy flying them... but...

I then was reading all the stuff about UBI and DRM and thought 'hey, they are only looking like releasing the game with two playable subs'... sound familiar.... and then I realised.... I bet they will release (drip feed) more subs and make you pay for them... with ROF it checks thier servers to see if you have paid for the extra planes, then when it gets an answer it allows you to use them. They have realised the error in thier ways and are releasing a patch to allow single player missons offline....

I love the SH series and own them all.... I have ordered the SH5, but I hope UBI see that this is not the right way to go and abandon this type of sales stategy. Also I hope that big yellow 'internet connection lost' sign doesnt come up on the screen like in Neal's Vids... what an immersion killer!! C'mon UBI listen to your customers....

[Steeltrap]

Apologies for any irritation I may have caused.

Was not meaning to be a smart arse or belittle anyone. I do find it particularly irritating when people put errors in quotations from authors, but I should address that privately.

Cheers

[IanC]

im one of the worst spellers around so its a good thing being able to spell correctly isnt a requirement to post here :O:

OT: Use Opera as your browser guys, built in spell checker and all. Best browser I ever used personally. :DL

Back on topic: I hate DRM.

[Reece]

im one of the worst spellers aroundHmm, let me think .... Yes!:O:

[Seafireliv]

I was thinking about this DRM issue and I had a thought about where UBI may be going with this.....

I recently purchased Rise of Flight, without realising the online all the time requirement. This didnt affect me greatly. Another surprise was that the game only came with 2 flyable aircraft... ROF slowly released further aircraft which you had to purchase at $7.50 US a piece. Now I purchased them and enjoy flying them... but...

I then was reading all the stuff about UBI and DRM and thought 'hey, they are only looking like releasing the game with two playable subs'... sound familiar.... and then I realised.... I bet they will release (drip feed) more subs and make you pay for them... with ROF it checks thier servers to see if you have paid for the extra planes, then when it gets an answer it allows you to use them. They have realised the error in thier ways and are releasing a patch to allow single player missons offline....

I love the SH series and own them all.... I have ordered the SH5, but I hope UBI see that this is not the right way to go and abandon this type of sales stategy. Also I hope that big yellow 'internet connection lost' sign doesnt come up on the screen like in Neal's Vids... what an immersion killer!! C'mon UBI listen to your customers....


This is where it`s going, Pay to Play. It`s no good saying "I don`t like it but i`m buying anyway and hope they won`t do worse things!" You`ve got to have some backbone and vote with the only thing UBI will listen to- Your wallet! Don`t buy their games and send them a clear message you do not like it.

Otherwise they`ll carry on as long as they get your money and they won`t care- and it will get worse.

[michaelws]

You are right...sadly so...our wallet is our only vote. Again, I won't buy because of the restrictive online requirements. And I have great bandwidth and steady connections...but I too would like to play this when and wherever I want to...not to have to play only when tethered to the internet.

Not fair.

[Starforce2]

you know, XP had online activation, and every once in a while I change hardware and it needs activation again, and it's no hassel. If it's good enough for the greedy sob's who make windows, then it should be good enough for ubi. I wouldn't object to a one time (or per instalation..when you actualy run the installer) that verify's my copy is authentic, then lets me install it. But once it is installed, there's no reason to continue verifying anything. You could go no cd with this same system. (that way if you accidently break your disk or your disk drive goes out..optical drives fail quite often...you could still play). I like the idea of online saves but only as an optional service.

Out of curiosity, is there a fee for this ubi account that you need to play the game? Or do you need to pay for the storage of your saves?

[Arclight]

No no, no fees, not yet anyway. :lol:

Honestly, I doubt they would suddenly demand a fee 2 years or so down the road. The backlash would be severe, to say the least. But they could introduce a "new" system (ie. the same but with payments) for new titles and drop support for the old ones. :hmmm:

They promised a take-of-the ball-and-chain patch if they ever take the servers down, but they never said they wouldn't charge for such a patch (but again, the backlash would be severe).

Scary thoughts, let's hope the future is brighter than that. :)

[3DDevil]

This is where it`s going, Pay to Play. It`s no good saying "I don`t like it but i`m buying anyway and hope they won`t do worse things!" You`ve got to have some backbone and vote with the only thing UBI will listen to- Your wallet! Don`t buy their games and send them a clear message you do not like it.

Otherwise they`ll carry on as long as they get your money and they won`t care- and it will get worse.


You know I know you are right... I am seriously considering cancelling my order. I will think about it a little more before I take this action, but I am looking more like another cancel...

[609_Avatar]

This is where it`s going, Pay to Play. It`s no good saying "I don`t like it but i`m buying anyway and hope they won`t do worse things!" You`ve got to have some backbone and vote with the only thing UBI will listen to- Your wallet! Don`t buy their games and send them a clear message you do not like it.

Otherwise they`ll carry on as long as they get your money and they won`t care- and it will get worse.

You're totally right in this regard and I've finally decided to do just that, put my money where my mouth is and in this case it's right back into my own pocket. Though having said this I think the Company of Heroes guys are being a lot smarter about their way of moving towards this and I did a lot less complaining about it and don't feel as bad using it. They made the online thing optional, meaning you only have to be connected if you don't want your disk in the drive. Seeing I am, like most other humans, lazy by nature, I allow them access to my computer each time I play. I think I'm going to get off my lazy arse and start using the CD and block them with my firewall to be more consistent with my words. It shouldn't be that big of a deal for me as I don't play it that much anyway... So this whole DRM thing is really backfiring on the industry in my house! :D

[DrBassie]

I'm not usually one to complain about some little things in games, as some others on here are apt to do, but this DRM system they have is ridiculous. I can deal with having the DVD in the drive while playing, etc, but a single-player game should not have to be connected to the internet while playing. This is the ONLY reason why I am not buying this game. I'm sure there willl be flaws with the game that I would've lived with but this is one flaw which I can't.

[Skullcowboy]

I'm not sure "quickly" is the word you're looking for, they tell me ROF kept their DRM in place 11 months. That sounds like it did its job.

Perhaps. There are several rumors floating around about the whys and wherefores of Neoqb dropping the requirement of a connection for single player. But most telling is their official announcement about it. I would think (my opinion only) that if the DRM had been a resounding success they would trumpet that from the roof tops and brag about how much money they saved because of it and how it was no longer needed. Instead, we get some talk about forum polls, customer opinions, network stats and marketing trends and how they are confident that legitimate copies will outnumber pirated ones. What I take away from all this (again, just my opinion) is that doing this will sell more copies. I am not so sure I would equate that to the DRM having done it's job.
Read and judge for yourselves :http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED!!!.aspx (http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2010/02/05/LOGIN-OFFLINE-ACCESS-GRANTED%21%21%21.aspx)

[Dutch]

I do not plan on buying the game mainly for the DRM, secondly for the end of the game being in 1943. I guess all those history books telling me that the war went on through May, 1945 were just lying.

As with others posted here, I would not mind having to get online once to validate my install. That I understand, but to have to be connected to the internet whenever I want to play the game that I purchased, is a crime. Personally this is a load of **** to me seeing as occasionally when the phone rings my internet drops anywhere from 10 seconds to the time it takes me to reboot the modem and hub.

By trying to handicap the pirate (which they will never be able to do. Where there is a will there is a way, period) they are handicapping the person who legitimately purchased the game. To the ones who are ok with this? Then you are nothing more than a sheep. End of story.

[Ham920]

I like the Dynamic Campaign concept of the new SH 5, but I'm upset about having to connect to the Internet each time I play. I don't play any games on line; I find it challenging enough to play against the PC and the Internet connection issue could be a deal breaker for me. I have all of the SH series, I, II, III, and IV and enjoy them very much. What if I'm having trouble connecting to the Internet? Can't play? I'm shelling out may be $50.00 and I have to ask for UbiSoft's permission to play ? That's B.S. and very poor marketing and customer service. Matter of fact it sounds like customer abuse to me. Time to boycott UbiSoft and get the idiot who thought up this conept fired!

[Nordmann]

Agreed. I've had no end of trouble with my net for a good number of years, frequent disconnects, extreme bandwidth throttling and total outages are but a few. British ISPs don't give a damn whether or not you can connect to their service, and should problems arise, you are unlikely to receive much in the way of help.

On several occasions, I was without internet for a period of six months, while my providers made excuses and shrugged it off. Any and all games requiring a connection, which was most of my collection at the time, were completely useless to me. I thus spent my time alternating between flight and sub sims, until I managed to get something sorted.

Now, with Ubi's new system, if a similar problem occurs again (my net went down for 15 minutes today), I will not be able to play the single-player game I have paid for. This may seem all well and dandy to Ubi, but it's simply not good enough as far as I'm concerned. What irks me most of all, is the seemingly glib way they have addressed our concerns, dressing their draconian DRM up as something we both want and need. Talk about misguided arrogance!

Still, they are going to learn the hard way, when their sales drop off significantly, perhaps then they will get the message. It's a real shame, because DRM aside, the game does look interesting. I will not however, pay them a sizeable sum of money, only to be told how and when to play. Not going to happen.

If and when they remove this ridiculous net connection requirement, and if the price is right (I only paid £17 for SH4 CE on release, compare that to the £30 or so for SH5 CE!), then I may consider getting it. A pity, but there are some lines I refuse to cross.

[Bilge_Rat]

To the ones who are ok with this? Then you are nothing more than a sheep. End of story.


http://www.sheep101.info/Images/sheep_racing.jpg

Guilty as charged, where is my copy? :salute:

I was pissed when Win XP introduced online activation, mildly annoyed when I had to use STEAM to play Half-Life2, now I figure its only a $50 game, nothing worth getting upset about.

The real acid test will be seeing how many of the posters now tearing their shirts in public will be posting in 2 weeks what a cool game this is!

[Ham920]

Somewhere down the line, like when they are on SH 10 or something, maybe someone will be smart enough to modify and package the game so that it does not require an internet connection. Until then Silent Hunter had a good run, but its over for me.

[Onkel Neal]

To the ones who are ok with this? Then you are nothing more than a sheep. End of story.

Oh, thank you.

I know people who feel that way about you and anyone who actually pays for a game. Sheep.

[mookiemookie]

To the ones who are ok with this? Then you are nothing more than a sheep. End of story.

Stow it.

[Sailor Steve]

To the ones who are ok with this? Then you are nothing more than a sheep. End of story.
The 1943 thing doesn't bother me. As I've said before, modders completely trashed and rewrote the campaigns in SH3 and SH4, and will almost certainly do the same thing to SH5. They're giving us the bare bones to work with because in this particular case there is no way they have the time to make a truly thorough campaign.

The DRM is the only real stumbling block for me. But there have been more than a couple of members who like the idea, or at least don't hate it. To call them sheep is narrow-minded to say the least. Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Possibly not even wrong.

The real acid test will be seeing how many of the posters now tearing their shirts in public will be posting in 2 weeks what a cool game this is!
Others have posted similar challenges, and you may be right. I think it already looks like an awesome game, and I really want to buy it. But I won't, because I won't be told how to play the game I payed my money for. And that's the truth.:O:

[Méo]

but to have to be connected to the internet whenever I want to play the game that I purchased, is a crime.

I'm always amazed to see how some people take it soooo seriously. :nope:

Some say it's gonna prevent them from playing a patrol in real time (I mean always on 1x time compression), some say it's a crime... guys, it's just a game... choice is yours, but...

- It's not gonna be the end of the world.

- Taxes will not raise for that.

- Girls won't get uglier for that.

[ReFaN]

The 1943 thing doesn't bother me. As I've said before, modders completely trashed and rewrote the campaigns in SH3 and SH4, and will almost certainly do the same thing to SH5. They're giving us the bare bones to work with because in this particular case there is no way they have the time to make a truly thorough campaign.

The DRM is the only real stumbling block for me. But there have been more than a couple of members who like the idea, or at least don't hate it. To call them sheep is narrow-minded to say the least. Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Possibly not even wrong.


Others have posted similar challenges, and you may be right. I think it already looks like an awesome game, and I really want to buy it. But I won't, because I won't be told how to play the game I payed my money for. And that's the truth.:O:

Dont worry stewie, il get you a permanent internet connection by airmail!

[Sailor Steve]

Dont worry stewie, il get you a permanent internet connection by airmail!
Won't matter, I still won't buy it or play it. Matter of principle.

Stewie? :06:

[ReFaN]

Won't matter, I still won't buy it or play it. Matter of principle.

Stewie? :06:

SailorStewie, sorry :)