Human hair usd on u-boats - Page 2

tomfon · 12-22-09, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING111

The Trial of German Major War Criminals

The Chief of the Central Economical and Administrative Department of the SS, on the basis of a report submitted to him,
orders that all human hair cut in concentration camps be appropriately utilised. Human hair is to be spun into industrial felt and yarn.
Out of combed and cut hair of women, hair-yarn stockings for U-boat crews are to be made, as well as hair-felt stockings for employees of the Reich railways

h//p://ftp.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-20/tgmwc-20-195-08.shtml

Its no news to me.Some time ago i watched a WWII documentary where it was mentioned that human hair was also used by the Uboat crews. Actually, the hair was processed -sort of- so i'm not very sure if the crews knew what kind of ''material'' they were using. Still, it is disgusting - at least.

NeonSamurai · 12-22-09, 10:15 PM

Like I said there is scant evidence that they ever made much use of it (but its impossible to prove it either way). Mountains of it was found after the war in the camps, and I believe more of it was burned. There is the reference to using it in socks for u-boat and railway crews, but no evidence for production of such items, though there are a few surviving shipping records of smaller amounts of hair being shipped to certain furrier firms.

This letter http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dac...e-of-hair.html was sent to all the commandants of the major concentration and death camps, ordering that human hair from their victims be saved to be shipped for future industrial use. I searched around for any other documented evidence of use but couldn't find much of value.

Anyhow here are some links.

Human Soap
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/...c_confirmation

Archeological Investigations of Belzec (for any holocaust deniers here), one of the death camps. It is estimated to have killed over 800,000 people.
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/belzec1/bel150.html
http://www.holocaustresearchproject....rchreview.html

BootsmanBoof · 12-23-09, 12:10 AM

Well, as this is the SH3 forum I can steadfastly say there's no human hair products on my u-boat.

Betonov · 12-23-09, 12:26 PM

Human hair can be used as pipe washer (?) (the thing used to prevent water from leaking trough the contact betwen two pipes, couldnt find a good translation). Barbers used to sell them to plumbers, cheaper than synthetics. If there was human hair on U-boats most proabably came from Fritz Hausemann from Snitzelstrasse Berlin while having a haircut in 1941.

Me and my father actually found hair used as pipe washer when diging in our cellar, the house was built during austria-hungary so it was used during times when synthetic was extremly rare or nonexistent. But could have been horse hair, human hair, hare hair....

Gabucino · 12-23-09, 02:39 PM

Come on...

It's normal to get rid of people's hair to prevent a massive lice infestation (it always was, and is even today), which could (and did) lead to large-scale epidemic of typhus, which can (and did) cause hundreds and thousands of deaths ("During Napoleon's retreat from Moscow in 1812, more French soldiers died of typhus than were killed by the Russians." Also see camp photographs with bodies piled on each other.).

Using probably lice-infected hairmass for _any_ purpose that doesn't include heavyweight industrial deinfection and production is very contraproductive. Think about a lice infestation on an U-boot, oh and remember the "medical inspection of genitals" scene from Das Boot, hehe). All the 1944-45 allied infrastructural+strategic bombing of Germany made it really certain that nobody would even think of building a business on human hair, when the average food ration for a free german citizen was already way below bearable levels.

Gaijin · 12-23-09, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabucino

Come on...

It's normal to get rid of people's hair to prevent a massive lice infestation (it always was, and is even today), which could (and did) lead to large-scale epidemic of typhus, which can (and did) cause hundreds and thousands of deaths ("During Napoleon's retreat from Moscow in 1812, more French soldiers died of typhus than were killed by the Russians." Also see camp photographs with bodies piled on each other.).

Using probably lice-infected hairmass for _any_ purpose that doesn't include heavyweight industrial deinfection and production is very contraproductive. Think about a lice infestation on an U-boot, oh and remember the "medical inspection of genitals" scene from Das Boot, hehe). All the 1944-45 allied infrastructural+strategic bombing of Germany made it really certain that nobody would even think of building a business on human hair, when the average food ration for a free german citizen was already way below bearable levels.

And behold, let there be common sense. And there was. And it was good.

NeonSamurai · 12-24-09, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabucino

Come on...

It's normal to get rid of people's hair to prevent a massive lice infestation (it always was, and is even today), which could (and did) lead to large-scale epidemic of typhus, which can (and did) cause hundreds and thousands of deaths ("During Napoleon's retreat from Moscow in 1812, more French soldiers died of typhus than were killed by the Russians." Also see camp photographs with bodies piled on each other.).

Using probably lice-infected hairmass for _any_ purpose that doesn't include heavyweight industrial deinfection and production is very contraproductive. Think about a lice infestation on an U-boot, oh and remember the "medical inspection of genitals" scene from Das Boot, hehe). All the 1944-45 allied infrastructural+strategic bombing of Germany made it really certain that nobody would even think of building a business on human hair, when the average food ration for a free german citizen was already way below bearable levels.

Except for the slight problem that the Nazi's were stockpiling the stuff in the camps. I mean why on earth would they keep the hair if it was infected? Those camps also had the facilities to kill off lice and other stuff in the shaved hair (and clothes and other things they stole from the people they killed) like Zyclon-B which they regularly used for the delousing of objects (along with killing people). Besides the fact that lice would not survive the felting process anyhow.

I am still doubtful that hair from concentration camps were used in the making of socks, in spite of the letter I linked, due to the lack of any further evidence. I am however less doubtful of at least some of that hair being used in industrial felting (there are surviving records of human hair being shipped from certain death/concentration camps to furrier companies which totaled a bit under a metric ton).

Gabucino · 12-24-09, 03:14 AM

Okay IMHO let's close this OT thread with the actual facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Except for the slight problem that the Nazi's were stockpiling the stuff in the camps. I mean why on earth would they keep the hair if it was infected?

I can see only one rational explanation: they didn't.

Take Treblinka, which was utterly destroyed and dismantled, its existence is based on contradicting survivor reports (like the only water well in the middle of the alleged exterminational area - Arad: Op.Reinhard camps; page 39).

And see the "hairy" Auschwitz, where "29 of the 35 storerooms have been burned down. In six of the remaining ones, the liberators found the camp's legacy: 368,820 men's suits, 836,255 women's coats and dresses, 5,525 pairs of women's shoes, 13,964 carpets... ... and in the tannery the Soviet investigation commission found seven tons of hair.

Here's what it looks like (from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum):

In this perfectly aligned scene of actors, I mean soldiers, all standing in the right spot to make everything visible, this guy even goes over the top and shows the camera (camera!) where hair can be usually found on the humans, because someone may not know:

Himmler decides to dismantle the installations on 1944 November 25 (Raul Hillberg: Destr. of European Jews, page 980), and the processes begin. No hurry there, because the camp is still allegedly operational in January 17 when soviet artillery was already audible. So they didn't just forget the evidence during a 'quick evacuation'.

The germans went to great lengths to totally destroy Treblinka, not even use the term "Vergasungskeller" in written text anywhere, but accidently left several tons of highly flammable clothes and hair completely intact ... Or so the famous soviet inspectors say, long time known for their sense of absolute truth, professional courtesy, and the complete lack of idealistic and political influence.

Not that I don't believe in the HoCa, I do. I really do. I said I do! ... DON'T TAZE ME BRO'!!! *bzzt*

IanC · 12-24-09, 10:10 AM

Suuure Gabucino... it's all just one big lie to make the Nazis look bad.

Anyways why is this thread even in the SHIII game forum?

mookiemookie · 12-24-09, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabucino

Not that I don't believe in the HoCa, I do. I really do. I said I do! ... DON'T TAZE ME BRO'!!! *bzzt*

What a disgusting attitude and belief.

KL-alfman · 12-24-09, 11:11 AM

@ gabucino:
no need for believing, there is evidence enough.

I'd rather sail bare-footed than in socks made of human hair ......
can't imagine the u-boatmen were attracted to this idea either.

Gabucino · 12-24-09, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

What a disgusting attitude and belief.

There is no need for you to get personal, don't do that.

Schöneboom · 12-24-09, 10:02 PM

For crying out loud, isn't this topic dead yet?! Let me finish it off, then. It's Christmas Eve!

Anyone who knows how socks are manufactured could have debunked this story in seconds. One of my ex-girlfriends was into knitting, so I learned a few things from her.

1) Socks -- the kind for real-world use by modern people, are not made from felt, they are knitted from yarn.
2) Yarn can be spun from many sorts of fibers, but some work better than others. My GF sometimes used her dog's hair (it had a wooly texture). Human hair is particularly hard to work with because it's slippery and, in bulk, lacks uniformity of length & texture. If it were practical to use, hairdressers everywhere would be selling the cuttings from their floors.
3) Any industry using vast amounts of human hair to make yarn would not be a secret for long. And the Final Solution was meant to be kept low-profile.
4) A clothing shortage can be remedied in other ways, for ex., get crewmen to bring their own socks from home. (In fact U-boat men did wear civvies on board.) In real desperation, confiscate ready-made socks from prisoners or civilians in occupied countries. Wash thoroughly and re-use.

It stands to reason that someone would have preserved physical evidence, if any existed. Extraordinary claims such as this require extraordinary evidence. From what I can tell, there is more compelling evidence for the existence of UFOs than for human-hair socks! Are we done yet?

Happy Christmas,
Wayne

mookiemookie · 12-24-09, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabucino

There is no need for you to get personal, don't do that.

Get over it.

NeonSamurai · 12-24-09, 11:53 PM

Quote:

SS-Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt

Oranienburg,
August 6. 1942

Amtsgruppe D - Concentration Camps
D II 288 Ma./Ha. Tgb. 112 geh.

SECRET!
Copy 13

Re: Use of hair cuttings
To the Commandants of the Concentration Camps Arb., Au., Bu., Da., Flo., Gr.Ro., Lu., Maut/Gu., Na., Nie., Neu., Rav., Sahs., Stutth., Mor., SS SL Hinzert.
SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl, Chief of the SS Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt has ordered that the hair of concentration camp prisoners is to be put to use. Hair is to be made into industrial felt or spun into yarn. Woman's hair is to be used in the manufacture of hair-yarn socks for 'U'-boat crews and hair-felt foot-wear for the Reichs-railway.
It is therefore ordered that the hair of female prisoners be disinfected and stored. Men's hair can only be put to use if it is longer than 20 mm. SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl therefore agrees for an intial trial period to the growing of the prisoners hair to a length of 20 mm before it is cut. Long hair could facillitate escape and to avoid this the camp commandants may have a middle parting shaved in the prisoners' hair as a distinguishing mark, if they think it is necessary.
It is planned to planned to set up a hair processing workshop in one of the concentration camps. Further details as to the delivery of the accumulated hair will follow.
The total monthly amount of male and female hair is to be reported to this office on the 5th of every month beginning from September 5, 1942.

signed: Glucks
SS-Brigadefuhrer und
Generalmajor der Waffen-SS

This is the origin of the idea. Contrary to what was said, you can in fact knit with human hair and make yarn out of it (here is an example), particularly if it is mixed with wool or other material. Human hair can also be made into felt just as easily. There is in fact still market to this day for human hair that is used in weaving and other things.

Gabucino, I'm not even going to bother debunking you, not that it wouldn't be very hard to, as your last post and that racist little anti-Semitic comic you posted earlier make it very apparent that it would be an utter waste of my time.

12-22-09, 10:15 PM	#17
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Like I said there is scant evidence that they ever made much use of it (but its impossible to prove it either way). Mountains of it was found after the war in the camps, and I believe more of it was burned. There is the reference to using it in socks for u-boat and railway crews, but no evidence for production of such items, though there are a few surviving shipping records of smaller amounts of hair being shipped to certain furrier firms. This letter http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/dac...e-of-hair.html was sent to all the commandants of the major concentration and death camps, ordering that human hair from their victims be saved to be shipped for future industrial use. I searched around for any other documented evidence of use but couldn't find much of value. Anyhow here are some links. Human Soap http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/...c_confirmation Archeological Investigations of Belzec (for any holocaust deniers here), one of the death camps. It is estimated to have killed over 800,000 people. http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/belzec1/bel150.html http://www.holocaustresearchproject....rchreview.html __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff Last edited by NeonSamurai; 12-22-09 at 11:29 PM.

12-23-09, 12:10 AM	#18
BootsmanBoof Mate Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 56 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	Well, as this is the SH3 forum I can steadfastly say there's no human hair products on my u-boat. __________________ "Of all the branches of men in the forces there is none which shows more devotion and faces grimmer perils than the submariners." Sir Winston Churchill.

12-23-09, 02:39 PM	#20
Gabucino Gunner Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 99 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	Come on... It's normal to get rid of people's hair to prevent a massive lice infestation (it always was, and is even today), which could (and did) lead to large-scale epidemic of typhus, which can (and did) cause hundreds and thousands of deaths ("During Napoleon's retreat from Moscow in 1812, more French soldiers died of typhus than were killed by the Russians." Also see camp photographs with bodies piled on each other.). Using probably lice-infected hairmass for _any_ purpose that doesn't include heavyweight industrial deinfection and production is very contraproductive. Think about a lice infestation on an U-boot, oh and remember the "medical inspection of genitals" scene from Das Boot, hehe). All the 1944-45 allied infrastructural+strategic bombing of Germany made it really certain that nobody would even think of building a business on human hair, when the average food ration for a free german citizen was already way below bearable levels. __________________ -- U-47 Personnel file

12-24-09, 11:11 AM	#26
KL-alfman Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Weimar Posts: 930 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	@ gabucino: no need for believing, there is evidence enough. I'd rather sail bare-footed than in socks made of human hair ...... can't imagine the u-boatmen were attracted to this idea either. __________________ Life, Liberty and Property!

12-24-09, 10:02 PM	#28
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	For crying out loud, isn't this topic dead yet?! Let me finish it off, then. It's Christmas Eve! Anyone who knows how socks are manufactured could have debunked this story in seconds. One of my ex-girlfriends was into knitting, so I learned a few things from her. 1) Socks -- the kind for real-world use by modern people, are not made from felt, they are knitted from yarn. 2) Yarn can be spun from many sorts of fibers, but some work better than others. My GF sometimes used her dog's hair (it had a wooly texture). Human hair is particularly hard to work with because it's slippery and, in bulk, lacks uniformity of length & texture. If it were practical to use, hairdressers everywhere would be selling the cuttings from their floors. 3) Any industry using vast amounts of human hair to make yarn would not be a secret for long. And the Final Solution was meant to be kept low-profile. 4) A clothing shortage can be remedied in other ways, for ex., get crewmen to bring their own socks from home. (In fact U-boat men did wear civvies on board.) In real desperation, confiscate ready-made socks from prisoners or civilians in occupied countries. Wash thoroughly and re-use. It stands to reason that someone would have preserved physical evidence, if any existed. Extraordinary claims such as this require extraordinary evidence. From what I can tell, there is more compelling evidence for the existence of UFOs than for human-hair socks! Are we done yet? Happy Christmas, Wayne __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher." Last edited by Schöneboom; 12-24-09 at 10:24 PM.

12-23-09, 12:26 PM	#19
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Human hair can be used as pipe washer (?) (the thing used to prevent water from leaking trough the contact betwen two pipes, couldnt find a good translation). Barbers used to sell them to plumbers, cheaper than synthetics. If there was human hair on U-boats most proabably came from Fritz Hausemann from Snitzelstrasse Berlin while having a haircut in 1941. Me and my father actually found hair used as pipe washer when diging in our cellar, the house was built during austria-hungary so it was used during times when synthetic was extremly rare or nonexistent. But could have been horse hair, human hair, hare hair....

12-24-09, 10:10 AM	#24
IanC Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Running silent and deep Posts: 902 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Suuure Gabucino... it's all just one big lie to make the Nazis look bad. Anyways why is this thread even in the SHIII game forum?