Interesting Shadows

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have seen enough of this, in the Brig Privateer, I'll pass this onto Neal, he can further deal with it how he sees fit.

Thread closed for repairs, It will re-open in the morning or if another Mod here sees fit before then ( I am going
to get some sleep ).

Bottom line folks, if you have differences, work it our via PM\email, no need to air out your dirty laundry here, SUBSIM
deserves better. If you have nothing positive to add than don't post.

Thanks to you all for your cooperaton. Now back on track and topic.

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by tonschk

Unfortunately the Dynamic Shadows have another bug , the Dynamic Shadows disappeared almost immediately when the sub submerges

now this is rather interesting. I tried the 'bug' out to see what it would do on my setup. The results were different from tonschk's. I was only able to get about 1-3 feet under the water before my shadows disappeared:

88mm shadowed:


still shadowed under water (1-3 feet):


now gone:


so now I have to ask what changed? What mods were you using when you took those screenshots tonschk?

[tonschk]

Hello , this two screenshots with Dynamic Shadows were very difficult to take because 94% of the time when the sub was already under the water the Dynamic Shadows have a strong tendency to disappear , the game was without mods , just your Dynamic Shadows experimental Single mission added


When the sub go under the water is only possible to see dynamic shadows from a few points of view 5-6% , and just for a couple of seconds

[Graf Paper]

Maybe the controlling node needs one of those "IsVisibleUnderwater=1" lines tacked on to it?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

Maybe the controlling node needs one of those "IsVisibleUnderwater=1" lines tacked on to it?

that controller forces either the visibility to be only under water or only above water, not both when attached to a 4/100 node. If that were attached to where the light source is (which is the sub) then the sub wouldn't be visible above water.

Ok, maybe someone can help me decipher this node. It comes from scene.dat:

000015C2 04 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 4E 00 00 00 8C 67 23 6B ........N....g#k
000015D2 0B 41 81 5B 74 89 D3 32 EC 01 20 65 00 00 00 00 .A.[t..2.. e....
000015E2 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 49 C3 BE 92 36 1E 41 07 28 .......I...6.A.(
000015F2 A0 C0 00 00 00 00 DA 0F C9 3F DC 35 7A 3F 00 00 .........?.5z?..
00001602 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 ................
00001612 00 00 00 D7 EF FF 66 66 66 3F 08 00 00 00 00 00 ......fff?......
00001622 00 00 11 00 00 00 8C 67 23 6B 0B 41 81 5B 53 75 .......g#k.A.[Su
00001632 6E 4C 69 67 68 74 00 nLight.

04 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 - Type 4/2 node
4E 00 00 00 - Size
8C 67 23 6B 0B 41 81 5B - ID
74 89 D3 32 EC 01 20 65 - Parent ID (Type 4/100 named Sky)
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - I'm assuming this is 3D model ID like in Type 4/100 nodes
00 - unknown (same as in Type 4/100's?)
01 - visibility
01 49 C3 BE 92 36 1E 41 07 28 A0 C0 00 00 00 00 DA 0F C9 3F DC 35 7A 3F - x,y,z position and pitch, yaw, roll rotations
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - number of maps (0) and map IDs
00 00 00 00 - End of record marker
01 00 00 00 - ??
00 D7 EF FF - appears to be the BGR (blue, green, red) color of the light. The leading 00 might be the Alpha component but not sure.
66 66 66 3F - it's a float value that I'm not sure what it's for.

The remaining type 8/0 node just gives a name to the Type 4/2 node (which is Sunlight).

this is the light source that is making the shadows (Sunlight). It is a Type 4/2 (light node?) and I'm able to decipher all the above except for those with ?? and in my explanations.

It's interesting to note that the 'light' has a position and rotations. This perplexes me.

[tonschk]

I guess the existence of Dynamic Shadows must have been tied with the deep at which the sub is moving

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by tonschk

I guess the existence of Dynamic Shadows must have been tied with the deep at which the sub is moving

actually it might have to do with the rotations defined in the Type 4/2 Sunlight node. It would be interesting for someone to try changing those rotation values and posting what the results are.

[Graf Paper]

I'm exploring as I go here so forgive me if this rambles all over the place.

Since it is underwater, wouldn't this be considered Ambient Light instead? That is also a 4/2 type with all values set to zero and color is RGB 100,100,100. Once the sub goes past a certain depth, the ambient light kicks in, thus eliminating shadows?

The Sun itself is a 4/100 type with a Z-depth translation of -6.52500343.
Sunlight is a 4/2 type and has a Z-depth translation of -5.004886.

Light can have three source types. 0 - Ambient, 1 - Direct, 2 - Omni.

Alter the bounding spheres for Sunlight so the sun "penetrates" deeper into the water?

On the other hand the EnvData node (10/-1 type) has lighting settings for Underwater (6/0 type), particularly the Uplight subsection that deals with light behavior near the surface. Downlight controls lighting at deep depths and near the ocean floor.

The Fresnel Coefficient for Underwater is currently set to 3.0.

Settings for Uplight are ARGB 0, 116, 252, 207 and an Intensity of 0.4.

Perhaps increasing the Intensity in Uplight to a higher value will allow the light to cast shadows deeper within the Uplight region?

One very definite piece of information I can confirm for you, Racerboy...

00 D7 EF FF - appears to be the BGR (blue, green, red) color of the light. The leading 00 might be the Alpha component but not sure.

Those two leading zeros are indeed the alpha.

[tonschk]

are you asking to Change the values where you have typed " unknown " or where is a question mark ?

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

Light can have three source types. 0 - Ambient, 1 - Direct, 2 - Omni.

On the other hand the EnvData node (10/-1 type) has lighting settings for Underwater (6/0 type), particularly the Uplight subsection that deals with light behavior near the surface. Downlight controls lighting at deep depths and near the ocean floor.

The Fresnel Coefficient for Underwater is currently set to 3.0.

Settings for Uplight are ARGB 0, 116, 252, 207 and an Intensity of 0.4.

Perhaps increasing the Intensity in Uplight to a higher value will allow the light to cast shadows deeper within the Uplight region?

well I think you just figured out what the 0x01000000 is in the Type 4/2 node.
0 - ambient
1 - direct
2 - omni (?)

I know that when I used the ambient light at first when working on the shadows it gave strange black 'blobs' of shadowing only on the unit...which makes since because ambient light has no direction thus can't cast shadows. 'Sunlight' is a 0x1, which if the theory proves right on our assumptions, would be direct lighting and since direct lighting has direction this explains why shadows are cast with it and it explains it having position and direction. How did you come up with 2 (omni)? I know there's an omni-directional light in DirectX (point light) but how are you associating 2 with omni?

Why don't you play with the uplight and all and post what you find

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by tonschk

are you asking to Change the values where you have typed " unknown " or where is a question mark ?

play with these values (make a backup of your scene.dat first!):

01 49 C3 BE 92 36 1E 41 07 28 A0 C0 00 00 00 00 DA 0F C9 3F DC 35 7A 3F - x,y,z position and pitch, yaw, roll rotations for the sunlight and see what you find out.

Also experiment with this:
66 66 66 3F - it's a float value that I'm not sure what it's for. See what you can come up with

I think Graf Paper figured out what the 01000000 - ?? was.

[Graf Paper]

All that gobbledygook of "00 FF 3A D7" might as well be Pinyin pictograms for all it means to me. That's why I so dearly wish Apollo was finished or at least available!

This is the best I can offer, using Silent 3ditor.

For Sunlight (4/2) we have these values:
File offset: 0x000015c2

Translation - X: -0.381416351 Y: 9.888323 Z: -5.004886
Rotation - X: 0.0 Y: 1.57079625 Z: 0.9773843

Type: 1 - Direct
Color: 255, 239, 215
Intensity: 0.9
Unknown: 0.0 (I think this may be diffusion but skwas does not know, value usually associated only with omi-directional lighting)

Within the Parent is an 8/0 type simply called Sunlight. but no values are associated with it.

I belive that the light type "2 - Omnidirectional" is used for objects such as star shells, where they are supposed to emit light in all directions.

That's all for now. I'll play with some of these values and report back with findings, if any are useful. Right now, the real-world projects the wife has planned for me today must take precedence. Spring cleaning and all that goes with it...(Honey, I think the couch would look better over there...no, maybe over there instead.)

[TheDarkWraith]

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

Translation - X: -0.381416351 Y: 9.888323 Z: -5.004886
Rotation - X: 0.0 Y: 1.57079625 Z: 0.9773843

Those are these values in hex:
01 49 C3 BE 92 36 1E 41 07 28 A0 C0 00 00 00 00 DA 0F C9 3F DC 35 7A 3F (every 4 bytes is something. Starting from left to right - x,y,z,pitch,yaw,roll)

Type: 1 - Direct (he's assuming that 0x1 is direct lighting. The assumption seems correct though)
Color: 255, 239, 215 (00 D7 EF FF in hex)
Intensity: 0.9 (66 66 66 3F in hex)
Unknown: 0.0 (I think this may be diffusion but skwas does not know, value usually associated only with omi-directional lighting) (he's associating this with some float value in the node. I think his unknown is the EOR marker after the 3D model ID. There's no other place left to grab a float value in the node.)

Within the Parent is an 8/0 type simply called Sunlight. but no values are associated with it. (that would be correct. After a Type 4/100 or Type 4/2 there's always a Type 8/0 node that gives it a 'name' or alias as I call it)

That's all for now. I'll play with some of these values and report back with findings, if any are useful. Right now, the real-world projects the wife has planned for me today must take precedence. Spring cleaning and all that goes with it...(Honey, I think the couch would look better over there...no, maybe over there instead.)

See above in yellow. Please do play with some of those values and report back findings

[Graf Paper]

I certainly shall, good sir!

Before I forget...

I want to give you my deepest thanks for sharing this with all of us but especially I want you to know you have my deepest gratitude for giving me a place to start and the direction I needed. That is all I have ever asked of anyone when I have said I wanted to learn how to mod this game.

You are a rare and precious sort, Racerboy...someone who gives. Promise to keep that beacon shining to point the way and I shall try to follow.

Maybe we'll all learn together, this way.


(Time to go move couches, dust, vacuum the rug, and hang pictures. The wife is giving me the evil-wife eye. lol)

[tonschk]

I must download and install the new version of " Released: S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.4) ' I have the older version ( I have never used S3D before in my life)