SUBSIM Radio Room Forums


SUBSIM: The Web's #1 BBS for all submarine and naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Wolfpack: the new multiplayer co-op U-boat simulation > Wolfpack
Forget password? Reset here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2019, 10:55 PM   #1
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Downloads: 149
Uploads: 0
Default Any math-heads used a real manoeuvring board to plot solutions?

I found a great video on YouTube instructing people taking their Nav Seaman exams.



And it got me thinking, using a mouse for plotting has never been fun; even with all the extremely well made mods in SH3-5.

As we're (thankfully) forced to have no map contacts in-game, has anyone any experience with using a real paper manoeuvring board to plot intercepts and solutions?

I can't find a UK supplier, though I'm sure there are some, but the boards are double sided thick paper and come 50 to a pad for about $13. That's 100 plots.

Sounds cool to me.

Or are there better charts to use?
Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 01:11 AM   #2
Nathaniel B.
Navigator
 
Nathaniel B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 261
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default

I have used them quite a lot. I have a pad of them next to me as I type this, actually. Personally, I think they're great. They can be used to solve all sorts of maneuvering problems - even very complex ones.


One thing to keep in mind, though, is that you don't really need a pre-printed maneuvering board to do the plotting. It makes it convenient, but you can do the exact same plots with a ruler, compass and a pair of triangles or parallel rule on plain or graph paper. Celestial navigation plotting sheets can also be used.


If you haven't already read it, the maneuvering board manual (chapter 6) is an excellent resource for learning many of the things you can do.


I can provide you with a link via PM to a high-resolution scan of a maneuvering board if you are interested. I don't want to make it public because I am acquainted with a gentleman that sells the pads and I am also unsure of any copyright issues.


Cheers!
__________________
If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me!
Nathaniel B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 11:49 AM   #3
Pisces
Silent Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: AN9771
Posts: 4,474
Downloads: 237
Uploads: 0


Default

I think there is a scan of a maneuvering board sheet somewhere in the downloads section.

Nope, it's a (formerly known as Google) Sketchup template:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3708

I do have a scan of a maneuvering board sheet (US Defence Mapping Agency) in my private collection (no doubt picked up somewhere in subsim forums) as .png file, 1939x 2003 pixels. But you'll have to fiddle with scale to get it right on paper.
Pisces is online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #4
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Downloads: 149
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for all the great info; unfortunately all these are imperial though right? So the nomograph won't work, without additional conversions from yards to meters and the inaccuracies that will bring.

@Nathanial B - I'd love to chat more about this with you, I'll PM you.

@Pisces - thanks for the link - I'll take a look.
Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 01:40 PM   #5
bstanko6
Sea Lord
 
bstanko6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Murwik Naval Academy
Posts: 1,791
Downloads: 386
Uploads: 13
Default

Got my maneuvering board pad at amazon.com.
bstanko6 is online   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 01:48 PM   #6
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Downloads: 149
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstanko6 View Post
Got my maneuvering board pad at amazon.com.
Are you using it? Has it helped? What's the pros / cons so far?
Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2019, 11:54 PM   #7
Nathaniel B.
Navigator
 
Nathaniel B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 261
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisces View Post
I think there is a scan of a maneuvering board sheet somewhere in the downloads section.

When posting the link to the manual above, I noticed there is the option on that page to download an image of the maneuvering board in two different sizes.


Here is the link again.
__________________
If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me!
Nathaniel B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2019, 12:15 PM   #8
Topo65
Captain
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlántico Sur
Posts: 481
Downloads: 331
Uploads: 0
Default

Just a reminder: Aaron Blood's MoBo
__________________
Cold Waters 1968 Campaign
LINK a lista de Youtube
My Blog: www.marenguerra.blogspot.com
Topo65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2019, 03:13 PM   #9
gutted
The Old Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA.
Posts: 1,345
Downloads: 457
Uploads: 10
Default

One thing that has always irked me about maneuvering board/radar plotting tutorials on like youtube etc. is that after they convert the targets relative motion to true motion they say "and that's the targets true course".

That's only true if your course was 000. They never mention that it needs to be converted to take into account your own true course. Or when they DO try to show an example that doesn't have you on 000 (which is an extremely rare find on youtube), they never mention that the bearings plotted need to be bearings relative to your course (and not your nose) when plotted on the moboard for it to come out corrrectly.
__________________

Solution Solver 2.3.2 - Visual Targeting Tools & Aids
gutted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2019, 05:50 PM   #10
Nathaniel B.
Navigator
 
Nathaniel B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 261
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topo65 View Post
Just a reminder: Aaron Blood's MoBo
I thought about mentioning that, too. It's a really neat tool and searching for it is actually how I ended up here. However, the OP mentioned that he doesn't like using a mouse for plotting. IMHO, a paper MB is faster and easier to learn and use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutted View Post
One thing that has always irked me about maneuvering board/radar plotting tutorials on like youtube etc. is that after they convert the targets relative motion to true motion they say "and that's the targets true course".

That's only true if your course was 000. They never mention that it needs to be converted to take into account your own true course. Or when they DO try to show an example that doesn't have you on 000 (which is an extremely rare find on youtube), they never mention that the bearings plotted need to be bearings relative to your course (and not your nose) when plotted on the moboard for it to come out corrrectly.
Maneuvering boards are meant to be used with true bearings, not relative. Many [if not most or all] radar displays on commercial and navy vessels are in a North-up orientation. That means that all bearings displayed are true. Relative bearings can be determined easily after the relative motion problems are solved. When using true bearings, the course of your own ship or the heading (the direction the "nose" [bow] is pointing) doesn't matter when plotting contacts. The vector triangles are always drawn using your own ship's true course and speed. The result will always be the contacts true course and speed.

Oddly, a quick scan of the maneuvering board manual didn't turn up any mention of this - although it might be in there, somewhere. What is mentioned in some problems is the need to determine relative bearings as part of the solution - implying that true bearings are being used.

I don't recall watching any YouTube examples of how to use a maneuvering board, but perhaps the makers of those videos are unaware of this fact. In any case, I agree with you that this should be explained.
__________________
If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me!
Nathaniel B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2019, 08:02 PM   #11
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Downloads: 149
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaniel B. View Post
OP mentioned that he
She.

Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2019, 09:59 PM   #12
Nathaniel B.
Navigator
 
Nathaniel B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 261
Downloads: 5
Uploads: 0


Default

Apologies.
__________________
If you have a question about celestial navigation ... ask me!
Nathaniel B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2019, 12:10 AM   #13
Elphaba
Neptune's daughter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 296
Downloads: 149
Uploads: 0
Default

Just adding this as it's pertinent, and to keep everything in the same place:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=240739
Elphaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2019 Subsim