UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

^ "The passion for destruction is also a creative urge." (Bakunin)

[mapuc]

An EU-related question

Until now it have almost always been UK, Denmark and a few more who have put down the brake when the other members is trying to go ahead to fast.

UK have always been the strongest among those countries and when they have left(presuming they do) The others Like Denmark will not have the samme strength in holdning back or slowing down the speed of EU.

Will we see a speed up in the creation of an United Europe
(I have heard about those plans on MSM(Swedish and Danish news)throughout the years)

Markus

[STEED]

Looks like Bojo is turning chicken...

The government is expected to loose the Letwin amendment, result there will be no withdraw vote!

[Skybird]

When I first read that yesterday, I was "furious" and called it pure malice. Then I read it again and was not certain whether I indeed had understood it correctly, and deleted my comment. Now you come along and it seesm in understood it very correctly from beginning on.


What a pest.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

When I first read that yesterday, I was "furious" and called it pure malice. Then I read it again and was not certain whether I indeed had understood it correctly, and deleted my comment. Now you come along and it seesm in understood it very correctly from beginning on.


What a pest.

First mentioned notably here https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ostcount=11384

[Jimbuna]

The latest gambit by the alliance of MPs around Sir Oliver Letwin looks like a real problem for the government whips, as they prepare for Saturday's critical vote on the new-look Brexit deal.

The amendment would withhold approval of the deal, until the legislation to enact it was safely passed - a move that would automatically trigger the "Benn Act" and force the prime minister to request a further postponement of Brexit until 31 January.

(There are also a couple of SNP amendments, but the lesson of the Brexit battles so far is that it is the cross-party amendments and motions that are the most dangerous. Single party proposals are mostly efforts to signal a position, it's the proposals that MPs from several parties can sign up to that pose a more serious threat.) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...ments-50098128

I must be very sad because the wife and I have cancelled a meal out to watch tv tonight and see how this all pans out.

Personally, I'd strip him of his knighthood.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

First mentioned notably here https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ostcount=11384

Yes, to your post I originally answered, and then dewleted it. I could not believe it and thought I must have misunderstood something.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I must be very sad because the wife and I have cancelled a meal out to watch tv tonight and see how this all pans out.

Since it is English cuisine, you will not have missed much but saved money, so be thankful!

Personally, I'd strip him of his knighthood.

One recognises knights and non-knights no matter their titles or non-titles. Nobleness cannot be rewarded. It can only be formed. Over years and a whole lifetime. And then you recognise it anyway. Of course - its true the other way around, too.



Anyway, what if the EU says NO to the Benn act? "No, we grant no further extension. We have a deal, no extension to negotiate further is needed, the rest is your internal affair: leave with or without deal, but leaving you must on Octobre 31st. We are sick of you all, get your voting done either way, and then do Brexit and then get along with what you brought yourself into with the referendum, whether it be good or bad in the long run. Period."

[Jimbuna]

Thereby lies the problem, I'm convinced the EU will allow an extension because the criticism levelled at them from every world stage would do them serious identity issues and nobody suddenly wants over three years of calamity put on their shoulders.

We must have a general election asap and give the electorate the final say on what to do with each and every MP.

Actions always result in consequences.

[Mr Quatro]

Over here the news has been that Northern Ireland has been the ice berg till now that they can stay EU, because no one wants two Ireland's (even though the problem still is there now it is less)

The other news is that the new deal being discussed is still 85% Teresa Mays deal that failed several times.

I hope it goes through but but but ____________ fill in the blanks

[Skybird]

Of course he is just a pltician - but Maxcrionman has repeatedly categorically ruled out another extension. And he is in the mood to sttel old bills with Merkel, as recent EU summit clashes between the two over Mazedonia and Albania showed, he was alone versus all the tohers, but did not waver. If he is serious abotu the non.more-extension-statement he made in scoring and since then repeated at least two times, it will not pass any EU summit.


And the less UK there is in the EU - the more relative weight gain there will be for France, against Germany. Germany just pays the bills.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Over here the news has been that Northern Ireland has been the ice berg till now that they can stay EU, because no one wants two Ireland's (even though the problem still is there now it is less)

The other news is that the new deal being discussed is still 85% Teresa Mays deal that failed several times.

I hope it goes through but but but ____________ fill in the blanks

It is true the government has been held hostage by ten DUP MP's but this evenings vote, whichever way they vote and they have said they will not support the government will bring about a swift end to their usefulness not only on this side of the Irish Sea but possibly in Ireland itself, who voted to remain.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Of course he is just a pltician - but Maxcrionman has repeatedly categorically ruled out another extension. And he is in the mood to sttel old bills with Merkel, as recent EU summit clashes between the two over Mazedonia and Albania showed, he was alone versus all the tohers, but did not waver. If he is serious abotu the non.more-extension-statement he made in scoring and since then repeated at least two times, it will not pass any EU summit.


And the less UK there is in the EU - the more relative weight gain there will be for France, against Germany. Germany just pays the bills.

Fair points Sky but I'm not convinced the youngster has the conviction when push comes to shove. I have noticed how he caves in when confronted in his own country and he is anything but popular at home and abroad at this current time.

I could be wrong of course.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

The other news is that the new deal being discussed is still 85% Teresa Mays deal that failed several times.

The big issue with the May deal was the Backstop issue, and that one is no more there. Both sides finally understood that it had to go and that with a Backstop there was no chance for any advanc,e chnage, step out of the deadlock.



By the new deal now, the NI parliamentis is free to decide by simple majority in four years, independent from London, whether it ewants to stay with the doble rules frum the eU and the UK regarding customs and special custums status, or wants to leave the EU system. I have zero symoathy for them now blocking the dela because they have a temporary special status by which they think they get forced away from the UK. I cannot see that. The specila status of these four years cna be ended by them in fou years, iof the want ti then. My suspicion is that it is some stupid stubborness thing gpoing on ther,e this kind of limite dminds that makes them provoking Catholics needlessly every yera with their dm,an marhcing seaosn to rub them into their nose that their forefathers and the others' forefather once did battle with each other and the one side mopped the floor with the other, and of this defeat the loose rmust get reminded again and again. Primitive, stupid, daft. It does nothing but polishing some egos that already are too wide.


Today there was a peice in a German paper, a Sinn Fein politicians who was in prison for 13 years and was participtating in the bomb laying and brutal fighting in the late 70s and early 80s. She said that the mood in Northern Ireland has chnaged fundamentally int he past three years, towards reunification with the Republic, and that there now were a substantial majority for that, becasue most Irish see more reaosn to prioritize their EU emmbership than their association with the UK. Okay, Sinn Fein, Marticna Anderson, and no, I cannot sort in that name and woman, I never heard of her, I just read that interview with her. What should I say to that?


I best say what I always say, as a Libertarian: every people in a local region has just every natural right to voluntarily put itself under some govenrment'S command - or tell said giovenrment that once does not accept to get ruled by this ngovenrment anym,ore, and leaves. Scotland. Catalunya. Ireland. "Bavaria". I will never say anything other than this: People are free to determine themselves by whom they want to get governed - or not. So if the Irish want to reunite, and for that NI leaves the UK, well, then it is maybe sporry for the record of the UK, but I say: let them go, and better without bitterness, because you stay as neighbours. I just tell the Irish: make sure oyu can afford independeance or reunification by your own means: I do not want that Germany - and so me as well - or the EU needs to finance you and pay your bills. Nobody is really sovereign and independent if he needs others paying his bills. This I tell the Irish. The Scots. The Catalonians. And I would tell it any German federal state as well whose population wishes to leave the federal republic.

[Jimbuna]

^ I've said it before and I'll say it again....spoken like a true Brit (or words to that effect).

My understanding is that the majority in NI are still in favour of the Union and it's hardly surprising what a member of Sinn Fein would claim but lets not go back to the dark side of history.

Any member of the Union that wants to leave should firstly seek permission of Parliament to hold a referendum (that is the law as it currently stands as far as I'm led to believe).

Next you should negotiate (prior to holding said referendum) what share of the national debt you will take on and finally, make alternative arrangements for what currency you will be using.

The Pound Sterling is underwritten/guaranteed by the Bank of England and not of Scotland Ireland or Wales (none of whom have the financial assets to cover such a vital necessity.

You may recall that prior to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the Scots were advised of that in no uncertain terms.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes, to your post I originally answered, and then dewleted it. I could not believe it and thought I must have misunderstood something.

My apologies. I've just opened up and read your deletions