[WIP] Historical Guns Specs

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

I am wondering if any of you has ever suffered gun malfunctions: Flaks jamming, getting damage from enemy fire and letting you defenseless in the middle of a surface engagemnt, and requiring long minutes if not hours before they are repaired.

Gabriele

never.. all the deck equipment (I mean - flaks, deck gun, scopes, antennas etc.) usually repaired very quickly.. even if Rongel's mod (Longer Repairs) enabled.. and funny and very annoying stock bug: all the deck equipment able repaired when submerged..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Gabriele

never.. all the deck equipment (I mean - flaks, deck gun, scopes, antennas etc.) usually repaired very quickly.. even if Rongel's mod (Longer Repairs) enabled.. and funny and very annoying stock bug: all the deck equipment able repaired when submerged..

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway

At least this is my experience. As I told before, looking into their settings I have noticed our guns don't have any zone assigned to them, therefore I am surprised that we still get the message "deck gun damaged, sir" at times. Adding damage boxes/spheres around our guns in not a big deal. I have also noticed that there are two special categories, 'Light Weapons' and 'Heavy Weapons' in Zones.cfg file, which are used for AI unit's armaments (whose guns, incidentally, can be disabled by damage). I hope that the same tag will work with player's guns.

Also notice that player gun's damage is converted into efficency reduction rates and repair times according to the settings contained in Weapons.upc.
There's a set of settings for each gun. For the single C/38 they are:

;DamageDescription1= Taken_DamageType, MinDamage, MaxDamage, MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance, chancefactor, Message, Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP, Spawned_Damage_Type, EfficiencyReduction, repair_skill, repairtime_in_hours 
DamageDescription1= NULL,	0,	0.2,	0,	1,	1,	Jam,			0,	0,	NULL,	1,	0.3,	0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL,	0,	1,	0,	0.5,	1,	Chamber Explosion,	50,	5,	NULL,	1,	2,	10 ;skill over 1 for unserviceable/destroyed gun

for each row, we have:
Taken_DamageType: not sure about this. Stock setting is invariably NULL for all the equipments
MinDamage, MaxDamage: this is a percent of equipment's hit points; it set the range of damage at which the next settings will be applied;
MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance: not sure about this
chancefactor: the probability in percent that the next settings will be applied [?]
Message: damage description (probably not used)
Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP: the damage spawned to nearby zones [?]
Spawned_Damage_Type: see mi comments on 'Taken_DamageType'
EfficiencyReduction: this is how much the functionality of the given equipment is affected by the damage, in percents. In our case, I am not sure how this setting would be reflected in therms of gun performance, but a value of 1 (=100%) should totally disable it;
repair_skill: the crew training in percents required for repairing the damaged equipment; if bigger than 1, the equipment not reparable
repairtime_in_hours: self explanatory

[keysersoze]

Originally Posted by gap

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway

This has been my experience. When attacked I will often get the message "Flak gun damaged!" immediately followed by "Flak gun operational!" I also noticed during my experimentation with depth charge settings that the deck and flak guns are almost never damaged, even when I increase the strength of the depth charges to absurdly high levels. Coincidentally, I also get these contradictory messages with other subsystems at times, but in those cases the equipment actually does get damaged.

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

so, correct me if I got you wrong, our guns get damage (or at least we get reported that they are damaged), but...

a. they are repaired very quickly
b. their functionality is not affected by the damage taken anyway..

You got me right

a. yes
b. yes

And what do you think about:

very annoying stock bug: all the deck equipment able repaired when submerged..

[gap]

Originally Posted by keysersoze

This has been my experience. When attacked I will often get the message "Flak gun damaged!" immediately followed by "Flak gun operational!" I also noticed during my experimentation with depth charge settings that the deck and flak guns are almost never damaged, even when I increase the strength of the depth charges to absurdly high levels. Coincidentally, I also get these contradictory messages with other subsystems at times, but in those cases the equipment actually does get damaged.

Okay, I think this odd behaviour can be fixed. My plan is to:

1. mimic jamming guns, for the FlaKs which were reportedly more prone to this kind of problem
2. make guns to take actual damage
3. make guns to malfunction when they get damaged over a given limit
4. make gun repairs to take a realistic time, depending on the type of damage
5. make destroyed guns irreparable

any suggestion?

Originally Posted by volodya61

And what do you think about:

Giving our frogmen a long leave could be a bit trickier, if possible at all

P.S: thank you guys for your fast answers

[gap]

Just found this interesting thread about a SH5 U-boat physics mod by Ducimus & Co, which was in the doing back in 2009. Thank you guys if you are reading us!
First information I got from it, is that guns drag coefficients are not in the same scale as the drag coefficients used for ships, submarines, etc; in the first post of the aforementioned thread, it is stated:

Deck gun with 3000 drag Coef = speed reduction of 0.9 kts

I propose to change accordingly our settings. My calculations, based on weight (gun + mount + ammo loadout), are as follows:

20mm_C30: 580 = 0.17 kn
20mm_C30_2: 575 = 0.17 kn
20MM_C38_Twin: 895 = 0.27 kn
20MM_C38_Twin_shield: 925 = 0.28 kn
Vierling: 2,665 = 0.8 kn
37_mmM: 2,955 = 0.89 kn
37_mmSA: 2,185 = 0.66 kn
37_mmTSA: 3,530 = 1.06 kn
Deck_Gun_GE88mm: 4,125 = 1.24 kn
Deck_Gun_GE105mm: 4,120 = 1.24 kn

I propose to use them as base settings during our tests, provided that you can't provide better figures than the ones estimated by me

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

I propose to change accordingly our settings. My calculations, based on weight (gun + mount + ammo loadout), are as follows:
....
I propose to use them as base settings during our tests, provided that you can't provide better figures than the ones estimated by me

That's great, Gap.. very, very essential and important part I think..
I would slightly reduce your settings (don't get me wrong, just IMO )

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

That's great, Gap.. very, very essential and important part I think..
I would slightly reduce your settings (don't get me wrong, just IMO )

At the moment we have no quantitative information relative to the effect of guns on sub handling. Unless keysersoze or someone else can provide historical data, we are free to set those parameters as we want.

For your information, conning towers got too their additional drag coefficients.
After setting them, we will need to finetune U-boat physical parameters, so to make boat performances (with standard equipment) to match historical specifications. Do you agree with the plan?

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

After setting them, we will need to finetune U-boat physical parameters, so to make boat performances (with standard equipment) to match historical specifications. Do you agree with the plan?

Compare

You know, I was, am and will totally agree with you.. seriously..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

Compare

You know, I was, am and will totally agree with you.. seriously..

That's perfect.

Another idea I had: I think you should really sign a blank check and send it to me...

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

Another idea I had: I think you should really sign a blank check and send it to me...

In our 'bearish' country, we almost don't use checks.. just bags of cash..

[gap]

Originally Posted by volodya61

In our 'bearish' country, we almost don't use checks.. just bags of cash..

In this case I think that a case will be enough. High-denomination banknotes, please

[THE_MASK]

Just on a side note . I think that DDs fire there guns at your general direction if you are submerged at periscope depth .
Silent Hunter 5\data\Env\SeaParameters
TransparencyDistanceUnder=19.000000

[volodya61]

Originally Posted by gap

In this case I think that a case will be enough. High-denomination banknotes, please

Do not you satisfied in small denominations? couple of bags?

[gap]

Originally Posted by sober

Just on a side note . I think that DDs fire there guns at your general direction if you are submerged at periscope depth .
Silent Hunter 5\data\Env\SeaParameters
TransparencyDistanceUnder=19.000000

Is that parameter really applied? IIRC, the feature that you are talking about didn't work before IRAI fixed it