Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

Poland has officially requested permission from Berlin to export 14 Leopard-2A4s to Ukraine.

Defence Minister Pistorios remained noncommittal and promised a "timely examination", Berlin obviously continues to play for time. It is reported that Berlin only wants to allow "the training of Ukrainian crews" on Leopards.

Moscow promptly warns the Germans against exporting German tanks to ensure Berlin's intimidation, especially the intimidation of the left wing in the SPD and the German public and media.

Rheinmetall said they could have 29 Leopard-2A4s ready for deployment as early as May.

[Jimbuna]

Poland asks Germany for permission to export tanks

By Antoinette Radford
BBC News

Poland has officially asked Germany for permission to export a host of Leopard 2 battle tanks to Ukraine in a move which raises pressure on Berlin to make a decision on the thorny issue.

The German government told the BBC it had received the request to export 14 German-made tanks on Tuesday.

But it has insisted the final decision lies with Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

Ukraine sees the tanks as vital for breaking through Russian lines and to beat an anticipated counter offensive.

The Leopard 2 tanks were specifically designed to compete with the Russian T-90 tanks, which are being used in the invasion. But export laws mean any country that wishes to send the tanks require Berlin's permission.

Poland's prime minister Masteusz Morawiecki said he hoped Germany would quickly respond to the request, and accused Germany of "delaying, dodging, acting in a way that is difficult to understand".

He also said Poland would ask the European Union to compensate the cost of the tanks it wants to send to Ukraine.

Germany has been hesitant to send the vehicles, or allow other nations to do the same, with one of its concerns being the fear that a sudden move on the issue could further escalate the conflict with Russia.

On Tuesday Germany's Defence Minister Boris Pistorious said Berlin had given allied nations the green light to train Ukrainians to use Leopard 2 tanks, but did not commit to sending their own.

Mr Pistorious said a decision about supplying the tanks would be made soon. The military's Chief of Staff added that any decision would be tacked at a political level.

"We are encouraging our partners if they want to, and if they have the opportunity, to start training Ukrainian forces on these Leopard vehicles," Mr Pistorious said in a news conference with Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg.

Allied nations have become frustrated at what they perceive as German reluctance to send the armoured vehicles in recent days.

Speaking on Tuesday, Poland's Defence Minister Mariusz Blaszczak said he was appealing to Germany to "join the coalition of countries supporting Ukraine with Leopard 2 tanks".

"This is our common cause, because the security of the whole of Europe is at stake!" he added.

On Tuesday Lithuanian president Gitanas Nauseda said he believed Poland was determined to send their tanks to support Ukraine after meeting with the Polish president Andrezej Duda.

"It is a pity that at sometimes there is a completely unnecessary delay as we could have made decisions sooner. The Polish side is very keen to provide such support," Mr Nauseda said.

But Mr Pistorious defended German chancellor Olaf Scholz against criticism that he was dragging his feet on sending the vehicles to Kyiv.

"Taking the lead does not mean blindly going ahead," he said. "And if the decision takes another day or two, then that's just the way it is."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64385210

[Skybird]

FOCUS:
--------------------------
What the dispute over American Abrams tanks is really about

If the USA delivers the Abrams tank, Germany would release the Leopards for Ukraine. The German government denies that this junket exists. But even if it did: For Ukraine, the American "diva" would only be the second-best choice.

It is not easy to penetrate the thicket of the German-American dispute over tank deliveries to Ukraine. Among other things, this is due to the fact that in recent months there has seldom been any clear talk in public.

For months, the Americans have been trying to encourage Germany to deliver the Leopard 2 tank to Ukraine - but for a long time they have only made this public in a very convoluted manner. Because they did not want to put Berlin under public pressure or criticise it as they did in the era of Donald Trump.

The German government, on the other hand, had long declared that it did not want to go it alone when it came to supplying Western battle tanks. Now, however, several European states have announced their willingness to supply Leopard 2 tanks from their own stocks, and the British also intend to pass on their Challenger tanks to Ukraine. But Berlin continues not to move.

According to numerous media reports in Germany as well as in the USA, Berlin is said to have made a junket and to deliver the Leopard 2 only if the USA for its part delivers Abrams tanks. Even statements by US officials suggest that this condition by Germany may have existed.

Publicly, however, Berlin denies this. The new Defence Minister Boris Pistorius, for example, stated these days that he was "not aware" of such a junket. The Süddeutsche Zeitung, on the other hand, reports that there was a heated argument between the American Defence Minister Lloyd Austin and the head of the Chancellor's Office Wolfgang Schmidt.

Afterwards, Joe Biden's national security advisor Jake Sullivan is said to have intervened with Chancellor Scholz's foreign policy advisor Jens Plötner in no uncertain terms. Among other things, Washington is said to be annoyed by the fact that new demands are always being made of Europe, even though the USA is by far the by far the largest part of Western military aid to Ukraine.

German government spokesman Steffen Hebestreit said on Monday that he could not confirm media reports about the US government being annoyed because of too hesitant arms deliveries from Germany - neither in content nor in the alleged tone. Talks with the USA were ongoing and constructive. Positions were clearly exchanged. Chancellor Olaf Scholz continues to advocate very close coordination with the USA.
The USA has been refusing to supply Abrams tanks for months because it considers them a worse choice than the Leopard in view of Ukraine's needs. The latter is "somewhat easier to maintain, it can advance over large land areas before it needs to be refuelled," for example, deputy Pentagon spokeswoman Sabrina Singh said of the German tank. "The maintenance and the high cost of keeping the Abrams running - it just doesn't make sense to provide it to the Ukrainians right now."

Secretary of Defence Colin Kahl had made similar comments. "The Abrams tank is a very complicated piece of equipment. It is expensive. It's heavy in terms of training. And it has an aircraft engine." Nevertheless, a debate is now also beginning in the US about whether to supply the Ukrainians with at least a small number of Abrams - if only as a symbol to get Germany to relent.

Just one would be enough to get Germany, for example, to also send battle tanks, says Republican Michael McCaul, who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Committee, to the broadcaster "ABC". In his view, the mere announcement of such a delivery would be enough. Democratic Senator Chris Coons agreed with him. Should it be necessary to send some Abrams to procure the Leopards from Germany, Poland or other allies, he would support it.

However, a US official told Slate magazine that with a unit price of nine million dollars, the Abrams would be a rather expensive symbol. And, "We wouldn't give the Ukrainians weapons they can't use."

In fact, it is undisputed among experts that the Leopard would be the better choice. This is because the Abram's turbine engine consumes much more fuel than the more economical Leopard. Moreover, maintenance and servicing of the Abrams is a costly and complicated affair that requires great logistical effort.

The US military's Abrams would also probably have to be refitted for Ukraine first. "People don't think about the fact that all the American M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams tanks stored or in service with the US Army are filled with a tonne of depleted uranium," writes Italian military expert Thomas Theiner.

It is a mesh inserted in the armour between steel and ceramic plates and its composition is highly secret. Therefore, it would first have to be removed and replaced by tungsten for export to other nations, and that would take weeks.

As is so often the case with modern military equipment, the Abrams, while considered highly effective and powerful, is often described as a diva when it comes to training and maintenance. "The M1 series of the Abrams is the best in the world," says Mark Hertling, for example, former commander-in-chief of the US Army in Europe, who himself led tank companies. "But training for tank crews and maintenance crews is critical and cannot be handled superficially. Because if you do that on an M1, you break a lot of things." The propulsion unit can also break easily, he said, and is very expensive to replace.

The Americans also do not have extensive spare parts stocks for the Abrams in Europe because the US troops' tanks stationed there are constantly being rotated back to the US. Given the patchwork of weapons systems Ukraine has received from the West, the Ukrainian military is already struggling to keep them running, the ex-general says.

"Ukrainian army commanders I talk to want tanks, but they admit they are already struggling with logistics and getting supplies and spare parts to the right place. So reducing that burden has to be a key consideration," says Hertling. "And in my professional opinion, the Abrams would mean a higher load for a force that is in a tough fight because of training needs and supplies. The Leopard 2s would be a lighter load."
-------------------------------

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Ukrainian officials say they have commitments from twelve NATO countries for about 100 Leopard-2s.


https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=96620510


In current German order of battle (OOB), one tank batallion would consist of 44 tanks. In the past it were 54 tanks, plus a dozen of engineer tanks, command tanks, supply vehicles.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Pistorius after the meeting with Stoltenberg: Situation regarding tanks has not changed

German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said that Berlin has still not made a decision on the transfer of Leopard tanks to Ukraine.

As reported by Censor.NET with reference to the EP, he said this after a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

"Currently, there is no new information, the situation has not changed. We are preparing a decision, which will be very soon. As I said in Ramstein, I support our partners if they want to start training (Ukrainians, - ed.) on these tanks, we will not interfere with this. But as I said, we are preparing our decision," the minister said.

Pistorius recalled his decision to entrust the Bundeswehr with the inspection of the tanks but noted that it was not done simply to count them.

"Of course, we know how many of them we have, everything is a bit more complicated. We have to check the industrial stocks," he added.

The NATO Secretary General, in turn, also said that a decision on the tanks will be made soon.

"We discussed tanks. Consultations between the allies will continue and I think we will have a decision soon," he said. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395309

Poland asked Germany to hand over Leopard tanks to Ukraine: It is about the security of all of Europe

Official Warsaw turned to Berlin with a request to transfer Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine.

This was reported by Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak, Censor.NET informs.

"The Germans received our request for consent to the transfer of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. I also appeal to the German side with a request to join the coalition of countries that support Ukraine with Leopard 2 tanks. This is our common cause because it is about the security of the whole of Europe!" he wrote on Twitter.

It will be recalled that the day before, the spokesman of the German government, Steffen Gebeshreit, said that Berlin has not yet received an official request from Warsaw regarding the permission to hand over the tanks that are in service with the Polish army. When such a request is credible, it will be processed in accordance with the procedures. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395326

[Jimbuna]

German arms manufacturer said they can provide 139 Leopard tanks to Ukraine

The German automotive and arms manufacturer Rheinmetall could deliver 139 Leopard battle tanks to Ukraine. The news comes at a time Germany is under pressure to send the tanks to Ukraine or give export permission to other Western countries to provide the tanks.

A spokesperson for Rheinmetall has said the company could deliver 29 of the Leopard 2A4 tanks as soon as April or May.

A further 22 tanks of the same make could also be transported to Ukraine by the end of 2023 or early 2024.

However, the spokesperson said the company has 88 older Lepard 1 tanks which could also be given to Ukraine but did not specify a potential time frame for delivery.

Leopard 2 tanks are considered one of the best-performing tank models worldwide and are renowned for their firepower, mobility and sturdy armour.

The German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has described the Leopard 2 as "sort of like the [Volkswagen] Golf of the German tank industry: an all-rounder with world recognition".

Ukraine has called on its Western allies to provide the German tanks, as they could have a significant impact against Russia in breaking through their lines to recapture territory.

Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine's Foreign Minister, has said the tanks could have the power to "save the lives of many Ukrainian soldiers".

Germany has been reluctant to provide the tanks to Ukraine and give other countries export permission to send the tanks, due to the anti-militantism position it adopted after the Second World War.

On Friday, the United States and European counties met to ask Germany to give its approval for the delivery of the Lepard 2 tanks, but no agreement was reached.

However, Boris Pistorius, Germany's Defense Minister, has denied that his country was unilaterally stopping the tanks from reaching Ukraine, and said the German government was ready to act quickly if there was a shared consensus among NATO allies.

He said: "There are good reasons for the deliveries and there are good reasons against, and in view of the entire situation of a war that has been ongoing for almost one year, all pros and cons must be weighed very carefully."

Mr Pistorius added that the idea that "there is a united coalition and that Germany is standing in the way is wrong" and said: "There are many allies who say we share the view that I have put forward here."

Poland said they can send 14 Lepard 2 tanks to Ukraine, but cannot send them without Germany's permission as they are supplied under German license.

On Monday, Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said they would request permission from Germany but may send the tanks even if authorisation is not granted.

He said: "Even if ultimately we did not get this consent, within the framework of a small coalition... we will still hand over our tanks, together with others, to Ukraine."

A spokesperson for the German goverment has said they have not yet received any export request to deliver Leopard 2 tanks.

Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said the tanks will not change the outcome of the war and Ukraine's allies will regret their "delusions" in supporting the country.

He said: "We have repeatedly said that such supplies will not fundamentally change anything, but will add problems for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...c152a4f8b90392

[Catfish]

As i saw in different media Germany will now indeed deliver tanks to Ukraine, was posted via DPA, "Die Zeit" and "Die Sueddeutsche Zeitung".
https://www.zeit.de/news/2023-01/24/...an-die-ukraine

Peskov already reacted saying it will not change the outcome of the war.

The US is said to also deliver Abrams tanks to Ukraine.
As some others said rightly before just having some modern tanks alone will indeed not win the fight and Ukraine will lose some western military hardware sooner or later, from during transport, to fight. It is not a "Wunderwaffe" and it certainly comes too late.

With Russia making a bit of progress I still do not see how Putin can win this against the rest of the world (sans China or Iran of course).
Even Morocco sends tanks now, and demographics do not favour Russia.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ukrainian officials say they have commitments from twelve NATO countries for about 100 Leopard-2s.


https://abcnews.go.com/International...ry?id=96620510


In current German order of battle (OOB), one tank batallion would consist of 44 tanks. In the past it were 54 tanks, plus a dozen of engineer tanks, command tanks, supply vehicles.

The Netherlands is considering buying 18 Leopard 2 tanks to donate to Ukraine.

[Catfish]

January 24th 2023:
Germany to approve sending heavy battle tanks to Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ks-2023-01-23/

[Jimbuna]

Scholz agreed to send tanks to Ukraine, - Der Spiegel

Federal Chancellor of Germany Olaf Scholz agreed to provide Ukraine with leopard-2 tanks.

As Censor.NET informs, the influential German publication Der Spiegel writes about it.

"After months of debate, Chancellor Scholz decided to deliver battle tanks to Ukraine. Apparently, the allies also want to agree to this. Abrams tanks could have arrived from the USA," the message states. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395465

Netherlands plans to buy 18 Leopard-2 tanks from Germany and transfer them to Ukraine, - Rutte

Netherlands is considering a possibility of supplying Ukraine with 18 modern Leopard 2 main battle tanks, which they have leased from Germany.

"We have leased them, which means we can buy them, which means we can donate them," Prime Minister Mark Rutte said in an interview with FAZ and some other international media in Brussels on Tuesday, informs Censor.NЕТ.

He continued: "If it makes sense in a bigger aid package with other countries like Finland and Portugal, we are ready to consider it."

"But there is no decision yet," Rutte added.

Nevertheless, this is an important signal. Germany has also coordinated previous arms deliveries with the Netherlands, such as the Panzerhaubitze 2000.

"I have a great understanding of the Ukrainian request," Rutte said.

It is now up to the German government to decide whether to supply the Leopard.

"If Germany had said no, Poland, Finland, Portugal and ourselves would have to consider obtaining permission to export and supply the tanks on a bilateral basis. "But we are not at that stage yet, and I don't want to put pressure on Germany," Rutte continued.

He noted that a few days after Russia's attack on Ukraine, the German government allowed the Netherlands to supply Kyiv with German-made rocket-propelled grenade launchers. Berlin also decided to make such a delivery at that time. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395475

[Jimbuna]

German Ministry of Defense keeps 320 Leopard 2 tanks in its warehouses, - CNN

The German army has 320 Leopard 2 tanks in service, but has not disclosed how many of them are ready for combat.

According to Censor.NET with reference to the "Euro Integration", a representative of the German Ministry of Defense said in a comment CNN.

As the Ministry of Defense representative explained, these Leopard 2 tanks, all series A5, A6, and A7, are at different stages of the state, repair, and readiness for deployment.

The German army is no longer in service with Leopard 1, which is an older series of a main combat tank, she said. Similarly, the German army has more old LEOPARD 2 models such as A4.

Separately, the RheinMetall arms manufacturer stated last week, which has 139 Leopard tanks in stock, but only 29 Leopard 2 will be in a state of combat readiness this spring. Theoretically, these 29 cars could already promise third countries in the framework of tank exchange.

The rest of the tanks, according to the company, can be prepared for transfer for a longer period of time.

The RheinMetall representative on Tuesday reported CNN that there are 88 Leopard 1 tanks, several of them can be delivered in about nine months and the rest in a year.

Another German weapon manufacturer, FFG, has 99 tanks, but only an older Leopard 1 series, CNN said.

According to Bloomberg, Germany can give Poland permission to re -export the LEOPARD 2 tanks of German production in Ukraine.

On Tuesday, it became known that Germany received Poland's request on re -export of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395456

12 countries agree to hand over 100 Leopard 2 tanks to Kyiv during Ramstein meeting, ABC News

During the meeting of the Contact Group on Defense of Ukraine (Ramstein "format), twelve countries agreed to provide Ukraine with LEOPARD 2 last week if the German government agrees to re -export.

As Censor.NET informs, with reference to "Euro Integration", this was reported by a high-ranking Ukrainian official in an interview with ABC News

According to the source, in addition to Poland and Finland, which have publicly agreed to transfer part of their Leopard 2, Spain, the Netherlands and Denmark are also ready to provide tanks. However, in order for the "tank coalition" to continue discussing this issue, Germany's consent is needed.

As the manufacturer of the Leopard 2, Germany must approve an export license if the countries want to supply some of their tanks to a third country.

A Ukrainian correspondent for ABC News explained that Ukraine is running out of ammunition for Soviet-era tanks and is unable to produce new ammunition, "so that forced us to find an alternative way."

He praised Britain's decision to provide 14 of its Challenger 2 tanks, saying it helped "break through the wall" in terms of supplying tanks from other countries. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395440

Spain is ready to repair its Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine in month, - El Mundo

Spain can repair and modernize Leopard 2 tanks in a month and hand them over to Ukraine.

As Censor.NET informs, the local newspaper El Mundo writes about it.

As noted in the publication, dozens of tanks have been in warehouse storage in Zaragoza for about 11 years. The plan to convert them into machines for the army's engineering division was not implemented due to a lack of budget, but they are preserved according to the rules of conservation of armored vehicles.

Defense Minister Margarita Robles emphasized that the tanks were stored according to all conservation rules, so they do not need significant repairs. However, the country will not supply them to Ukraine without coordination with its allies.

"Spain will always act as it does now, in coordination with other allied countries," the minister noted. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3395431